[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by AVL500

[*]I can say it with conviction that 100% of the Jimny buyers (including myself) have bought it because of its 4x4 hardware, minus this there is no reason for anyone to purchase one.[*]4x2 works for Thar as there are many out there who just buy it for its image and nothing else, this is not the case with Jimny.[*]Just a removal of 4x4 hardware does not makes it any more practical other than just reducing its price a bit. On the other hand a 4x2 Jimny will remind an owner every day that how useless it is [/list]

There are plenty of use cases for a RWD BOF high ground clearance vehicle - say like a Bolero. A plus would be a drive train that is abuse friendly and cheap to run (diesel).

Now you look at the price of a RWD Thar Vs a Dinosaur Bolero - for personal use like visiting job sites , farms etc Thar would be a perfect vehicle, more modern and a lot more stylish. It would be enough incentive to motivate your otherwise reluctant son \ daughter to do something for the family.

[Catamaran]

The Jimny is not a mass market car by any means. There are many comfortable road cars available in the price bracket for the common people. The Jimny is primarily an off-roader, good for city use due to its small dimensions. It is a more matured version of the Gypsy with some creature comforts and not a Highway car by any means.

Its a Niche product and the takers are mainly either true off-roaders or wannabe off roaders with some city use as well like me (mostly as a second car). There may be people who bought it as their primary car, but the numbers are not anything to talk about. I'm not sure if Maruti really expected to sell the car @5000pcs a month, if so someone has got it wrong completely.

The ex showroom pricing has been at par or less than international markets.

5D top end AT in Australia - AUD 36,490 = INR 20.47 Lakhs
5D top end AT in South Africa - SAR 479,900 = INR 21.26 Lakhs
5D top end AT in UAE - AED 90,000 = INR 20.34 Lakhs

Indian prices are way less compared to these. The waiting periods in these countries are also known to be long. When I asked the Suzuki dealer in Dubai he told me about a confirmed delivery within 8 months, but depending on an earlier stock arrival, you may get it early.

Even if Maruti reduces the prices by 1.5 to 2 lakhs, I still don't think there would be many takers in the long run, since the demand for such a car is low in our country.

The Thar has much more takers due to its big and butch Wrangler'ish image, the punchy petrol engine for the petrol heads, the fuel efficient and torquey diesel for the rural areas and estate goers. Comparing the Thar to Jimny is like apples and oranges. The Jimny audience are way less as it excels only in its 4x4 attributes, a bit more comfortable ride, practicality and small dimensions, compared to the Thar. But none of these can bring in customers as except for the 4x4 capabilities, all other qualities are bettered by other mass market compact SUVs.

That said, I have been lucky to have owned many great cars both in India and UAE, however the solo long drive in my Jimny last week has been way more satisfying than many other new car experience I had.

[Himalayan_Ice]

Originally Posted by Catamaran

5D top end AT in Australia - AUD 36,490 = INR 20.47 Lakhs
5D top end AT in South Africa - SAR 479,900 = INR 21.26 Lakhs
5D top end AT in UAE - AED 90,000 = INR 20.34 Lakhs

Purchasing Power Parity?

Don't know what the clientele for the Jimny in those counties is, but asking for 18++ Lacs for an s-presso on steroids is stupidity.

And the s-presso will probably come with bottle holders that you wouldn't have to scout accessory shops for.

The Jimny is a ridiculously bad offering for the price. People bought the gypsy because there literally were no options back then. Today's pseudo SUVs can do 90% of what the gypsy could, and in comfort.

Anyway. Writing's on the wall. Nothing speaks louder than numbers.

[Catamaran]

Originally Posted by Himalayan_Ice

Purchasing Power Parity?

Don't know what the clientele for the Jimny in those counties is, but asking for 18++ Lacs for an s-presso on steroids is stupidity.

The Jimny is a ridiculously bad offering for the price. People bought the gypsy because there literally were no options back then. Today's pseudo SUVs can do 90% of what the gypsy could, and in comfort.

Cannot agree to your views. The Jymny is not an expresso on steroids, nor any pseudo SUVs can do anything near to what the Jymny is capable of. Its way better built than any Marutis out there, proper RWD BOF SUV with low range.

You need to drive the car in its environment to get the feel of it. You can also watch some you tube videos to understand why this car has a huge fan base internationally and what it is capable off.

But i do agree to the fact that it is not a mass market car and will not sell the numbers, because the audiences are way too less for such a product in India.

[Way2Jimny]

I'm really happy that Jimny is staying niche and has not become a mass market car. When Jimny was showcased we had all sorts of youtubers posting videos like "Sastha 4x4 Gaadi for 7 lakhs". They are the same bunch who thinks Jimny is S-Presso on steriods. S-Presso itself sells for 7+ Lakhs on road in AMT form.

[ChauhanSaurabh]

Originally Posted by Himalayan_Ice

Purchasing Power Parity?

Don't know what the clientele for the Jimny in those counties is, but asking for 18++ Lacs for an s-presso on steroids is stupidity.

And the s-presso will probably come with bottle holders that you wouldn't have to scout accessory shops for.

The Jimny is a ridiculously bad offering for the price. People bought the gypsy because there literally were no options back then. Today's pseudo SUVs can do 90% of what the gypsy could, and in comfort.

Anyway. Writing's on the wall. Nothing speaks louder than numbers.

What are the options available now with that capability of a 4wd in same price bracket?

What are the numbers for other offerings with same capability but in much higher price bracket? People taking the leap for remaining 10%, what pseudos cannot do will always be less, even lesser will be the share for people overlooking the size of a car. But those who live by Japanese reliability won't find anything else in this price bracket.

Jimny will remain a purpose built car. I am happy they released it. Off course with blunder on marketing side.

The launch price was not to my liking, but I acquired it the moment I found an opportunity to get it at least possible price. May be lowest in entire country. If only numbers were to speak for a great car, I would not had the pleasure of owning a Punto and a Figo in past.

[84.monsoon]

If the argument is that lower sales are justified because the Jimny is a niche vehicle and not a mass market car, the same applies to the Thar as well.

The Jimny at least launched with the 5 door version appealing to a broader cross section of buyers, while the Thar still continuous its 3 year run with just the three door version. Yet, it manages sales numbers of almost 6000 units every month and still has some waiting period for delivery. Mahindra as also managed to pass on at least 5 price increases since the original launch and the top and Thar is now more expensive by more than 3 lakhs ex showroom, compared to when it was launched.

I ride in my friends' Jimny last week in Bangalore and he is totally in love with the car for its ease of taking on various types of terrain including his coffee estate in Wayanad, the ease of commuting and parking within the city and the overall value proposition.

I do believe the Jimny is an equally appealing vehicle, had it been placed, promoted and priced right. It has equal if not higher sales potential then the Thar. What happened in reality however, is that due to the errors in marketing the Jimny, its sales tanked, prices had to be slashed and deep discounting resorted to, and maruti is now faced with an uphill battle to improving perception of the Jimny and get it back to a robust sales trajectory.

I am sure the Jimny fiasco will be remembered as an important marketing case study of classic marketing mistakes in our business schools for years to come.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by Himalayan_Ice

an s-presso on steroids is stupidity.

Originally Posted by Catamaran

Cannot agree to your views. The Jymny is not an expresso on steroids,

No one else bears the blame but MSIL for this very healthy but still puzzling discussion.

They attempted to portray the S-presso as an SUV, and that ended up making them a laughingstock, even among schoolchildren. It's ironic considering this is the same company that introduced the iconic Gypsy back in the late '80s.

Now, this is the consequence.

[androdev]

^
I have a slightly different take on this. Thar has a much better product-market fit for majority of the buyers in this category. We are a very nascent market when it comes to purchasing cars and lot of buyers put "aspirational value" as their #1 criteria. Thar scores very big in this department and the concept (macho wrangler-like car with great power, looks and presence) has really caught the imagination of the market segment.

Jimny primarily appeals to people who need a 4x4 with small foot print (ride quality is a bonus, not the USP) - this will always be a small fraction of the customer base that evaluate both cars.

There is very little Maruti can do to match the sales of Thar, especially when you have the option of exporting to the global markets with better margins. It's not a marketing mistake but mismatched expectations considering the poor product-market fit. To be honest, it's very difficult to predict product-market fit, one always tends to be optimistic.

Yes, if they are really keen to increase the sales numbers, they have to work with pricing, variants, equipment levels, etc. but the bossman will tell them just to move on and focus on the exports instead.

[clementj]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I am sure the Jimny fiasco will be remembered as an important marketing case study of classic marketing mistakes in our business schools for years to come.

There are quite a few instances of such mistakes in pricing and marketing e.g. Ford Fiesta but it's very surprising that Maruti, given it's position and experience in the Indian market, can get it wrong. Both the Jimny and the Fronx turbo are competent cars and potential blockbusters but have been priced way above their sweet spots in a moment of poor and over confident executive judgement. These cars are a rarity in Chennai roads even after 6 months!

[jungleroars]

What I believe is that 90% of both Thar and Jimny prospective buyers do not even require 4 X 4. They only want to buy it because of the off-roading vehicle SUV image. That's where look/aesthetics of vehicle are compared (rather than its utility and use case) and there Thar shines with massive road presence and jeep look. Jimny looks like toyish vehicle in that sense and Maruti is losing sales numbers there.

[i74js]

I strongly believe that the success of Jimny needs following
- Improved performance (plonk in the 1-liter boosterjet, they don’t have diesel, atleast there should be a performance-oriented highway cruiser with better engine)
- Bring in 6 speed TC
- Improve internal packaging (Ergonomic placement of switches, bottle holders and removal of hard plastic currently present at various touch points)
- Three door option is a must (Thar will beat them hands down with launch of 5 door thereby covering buyers with all kinds of requirements 2WD, 4WD, Petrol, Diesel, 3Door, 5Door, Manual and AT)
- Calibrated pricing
- Official accessories (with capability to transform the vehicle) and Jimny club (similar to Duster)

[PrideRed]

Most dealers have exhausted stocks of Jimny barring few MTs. Suzuki also have reduced discount on Zeta variants, where as Alpha continues to have 1.5L discount for 2023 manufactured units. There are also rumors that Suzuki has received orders for Indian Army and are quite happy with export orders. I guess 2024 manufactured one's will have lesser discounts and a waiting period too.

[Shreyans_Jain]

The price correction has seen a spurt in retail sales, Jimny is suddenly a lot more visible on roads. Furthermore, the lower MT variants are now very good value for money. Everyone knew the car was extremely overpriced to begin with. Now the lower variants are not but the higher ones are still a tough pill to swallow. Simply because

1. The relative change is price is less, only 1L discount.
2. The K15B engine and 4AT are completely outclassed by everything else in that price range.

Maruti went through the effort of creating the 5 door specially for the Indian market. Too bad they didn’t mate it to the Boosterjet turbo petrol. They might say that x engine is not compatible with y transmission. Well, that’s their problem and for them to figure out. Jimny Zeta MT at 11.5L OTR is palpable. But the Alpha AT at 16L OTR with that engine and gearbox is never going to find many buyers.

Maruti better make these discounts official, going into 2024. Else, Jimny is destined to go the SCross 1.6 way. Then, they will again blame the market for their own folly.

[Himalayan_Ice]

1. Jimny is being built in India and is being exported to other markets. So when we quote pricing in those countries, we must understand that they'd include import duties plus will be adjusted up / down according to the purchasing power of the TG in that country.

In India, we didn't have those import duties + logistics + transportation elements to deal with. At least nowhere NEAR the expenses related to exports. So, the car could very well have been priced cheaper.

2. When I say cheaper, I definitely mean it from the VFM perspective. When terming the jimny and s-presso on steroids, I clearly meant that is is a small tall-boy type design vehicle with good ground clearance and an anaemic engine. The "On steroids" part alluded to the 4x4 hardware, chassis, suspension and all the related.

3. In fact I will go on to say that the s-presso is a better designed car keeping daily usage in mind. Creature comforts.
If you are buying a Jimny for daily use, does it not occur to you that the interiors are NOWHERE conducive to that? Maruti skimped on interiors maybe looking at the thar and saying, "well, 4x4 sells" and fell on its face because most of the thars sell because of that repulsive concept known as "swag".

4. For all those singing peans for the gypsy, yes it is a legendary vehicle. It was THE king. For its times.
India has better roads, many more options of powerful cars which might be two wheel drive, but can conquer any terrain with ease. I cancelled the jimny booking and bought a Sonet. And you know what? It took me through Himachal during the rainy season no problems. I've driven my brezza shimla - kunzum - manali no problem.
You know the workhorse in remote mountains? The Alto.

WHERE else are you going to take that "capability" of the jimny? To the neighbourhood OTR course? FYI, the alto can do that too.

Oh, and I took my Hilux to Spiti a couple of months ago. How many times did I have to use the 4x4? Once.

5. Yes, if you frequent the mountains /bad roads often. Have hobbies / reasons that would take you into trails frequently, the Jimny makes sense. It even makes sense if you love a great suspension and the manoeuvrability of a small car in the city.

But paying 18-19 lacs just for that use case?

Wow.

And finally, what ticked me off about the whole Jimny experience the most?

The bluster of the Maruti marketing team.

Announce the car... Don't give out any details, make customers wait.

Launch the car... Don't give out any prices, make customers book and wait.

Play games with dates of launch / price reveal / availability / numbers / specs to create "hype".

Make up booking numbers / stay opaque about the details.

Launch at a stupid price and then create the "waiting period" lie.

Astroturf online discussions through journos / vloggers et. al.

Keep on lying about waiting periods till the failure is impossible to hide.

Karma is a ....

Good it happened. And like someone mentioned. This needs to be a case study in marketing for a long time to go.

Anyhow. I called it at launch.

Validation achieved.

Fin.