[pqr]

2023 (Jan-Oct) Model-wise diesel-mix-trend

• Despite more stringent BS6-RDE emission standards, diesel vehicles contribute a consistent 17.4% of total passenger vehicle sales in India.
• Mahindra Scorpio (D-93,025) is the best-selling diesel vehicle in India, followed by Mahindra Bolero (D-90,991) and Hyundai Creta (D-50,444).
• Despite the availability of petrol engines, 97% and 95% of sales come from diesel engines for the Toyota Fortuner and Mahindra Scorpio, respectively.
• Mahindra commands a 50% market share of diesel vehicles, followed by Hyundai and Kia's combined share at 28%.
• Tata and Toyota each have a 10% share of diesel vehicle sales.
• Jeep has a meager 0.9% share of the diesel market; however, their diesel engines command an 8% share of the diesel market as they do duty on the MG Hector, Tata Safari, and Tata Harrier, whose numbers are going to rise due to facelifts in the coming months. That’s the advantage of the compete-and-collaborate strategy.
• In the BS6-RDE emission phase, the Tata Altroz (1% diesel market share) is the only hatchback with a diesel engine, and there are no diesel sedans.

SUV: ladder-frame chassis



SUV: monocoque chassis



*Jeep Compass petrol has been discontinued since March 2023.

MUV



Hatchback



2023: Diesel engines discontinued in the BS6-RDE emission norm phase



*Kia Carnival has been discontinued since March 2023.

[bijims]

Despite having very good petrol engines in their lineup, Kia has a significant proportion of its sales from Diesel, the same goes for the Alcazar and Creta in the Hyundai Lineup.

However, in the case of Mahindra, Diesel is basically what sells for them, with 72% of the XUV700 sales coming from diesel, to add to that in the SUVs (Ladder on Frame chassis) it's all diesel, and I don't see petrol coming up in a major way there, the Scorpio, the Thar and the Fortuner for Toyota all have almost all of their sales coming from Diesel.

Goes to show that if you have competitive diesel models in your portfolio, they will definitely sell well.

As for the hatchback and sedan segment, diesels are well and truly out of the picture, with the Altroz, the only hatchback available with diesel, and no sedans whatsoever with diesel engines, the only way to get a sedan with a diesel engine is to go the second-hand route or in the luxury segment.

However, with SUVs dominating the market and with Kia, Hyundai, Mahindra, and Tata still committed to diesel in this segment, we won't see the end of diesel cars anytime soon, unless something drastic happens.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by bijims

However, in the case of Mahindra, Diesel is basically what sells for them, with 72% of the XUV700 sales coming from diesel, to add to that in the SUVs (Ladder on Frame chassis) it's all diesel, and I don't see petrol coming up in a major way there, the Scorpio, the Thar and the Fortuner for Toyota all have almost all of their sales coming from Diesel.

Whatever these petrol sales are, I am willing to bet that they are almost exclusively from Delhi NCR. Fact is that had it not been policy issues, arbitrary bans and random NGT restrictions, nobody would have bothered with petrol.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by bijims

....

However, with SUVs dominating the market and with Kia, Hyundai, Mahindra, and Tata still committed to diesel in this segment, we won't see the end of diesel cars anytime soon, unless something drastic happens.

Diesel is destined to die off for PV segment, not only for India but globally. By 2025, Diesel sales should drop to less than 10% of industry sales (maybe even lesser due to significant impact of BS-6 Phase 3 norms) with marginal sales remaining by 2030 due to obstinate Diesel-ahead demand. A lot would depend on regulatory landscape as OEM investment in Diesel Tech has more or less ceased completely.

[bijims]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Whatever these petrol sales are, I am willing to bet that they are almost exclusively from Delhi NCR. Fact is that had it not been policy issues, arbitrary bans and random NGT restrictions, nobody would have bothered with petrol.

You took the words right out of my mouth, BS4 and then BS6, NGT rulings, the ban on diesel cars over 10 years in Delhi, and a fear of diesel ban among the population altogether have been the reason for the decline in diesel sales.

if we look at the sales charts up to 2017, diesel cars were ruling the market, with these increased regulations, more and more players found it difficult to comply, and with Maruti Suzuki, the largest player in the market dropping diesel cars altogether, VW/Skoda, Renault/Nissan and Honda following suit, we hardly have any players in the market to choose from. If not for these reasons, diesel cars would still have been the preferred choice for many.

However, the SUV and Luxury segment still has a fair share of diesel options, and this will likely continue until Hybrids (for the short term) and then finally EVs take over the market, by this time even petrol cars will die a slow death along with diesel.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Whatever these petrol sales are, I am willing to bet that they are almost exclusively from Delhi NCR. Fact is that had it not been policy issues, arbitrary bans and random NGT restrictions, nobody would have bothered with petrol.

Absolutely, these new NA petrols are a headache on highways, struggling to pick up speed of overtake. It's quite a reversal to see old diesels zooming off while new petrol cars gasp along and barely able to cruise at the speed limit. Left to itself, diesel is unmatched, those petrol engines are always rated for high horsepower only if you put premium fuel, otherwise, they're mediocre at best. Looks like forcing an end to diesel just to enable higher tax collections will leave us with dreadful petrols, no mileage, power or torque. Diesel owners will be the ones to move to EV once the range and charging infra is better, petrols are a waste of time and money.

[YD14]

9% petrol + 45% Hybrid for Innova. So Hycross is outselling Crysta despite being more expensive and lacking diesel engine. Goes to show the potential of hybrids in India. These numbers do not include Grand Vitara and Hyryder; would have been interesting to see their powertrain division in sales. Lack of charging infra for EVs and tightening emission norms provide a really good opportunity for Toyota Suzuki to gain market share by providing more hybrids.

Originally Posted by avira_tk

Absolutely, these new NA petrols are a headache on highways, struggling to pick up speed of overtake. It's quite a reversal to see old diesels zooming off while new petrol cars gasp along and barely able to cruise at the speed limit.

Diesel engines are better in terms of performance than NA petrols, but this is a bad take on that. The NA cars are more than capable of cruising at speed limit and and zooming past other cars. I speak from experience of trying to race a Polo TDI against a Tata Punch. I didn't had guts to go above 90 kmph on a two lane undivided road but he kept going well above that and disappeared. Even the Elevate CVT has a lower 0 to 100 timing than Creta or Seltos diesel. Those cars are so slow on highway because of their drivers, not because of lack of performance in cars.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by YD14

Diesel engines are better in terms of performance than NA petrols, but this is a bad take on that. The NA cars are more than capable of cruising at speed limit and and zooming past other cars. I speak from experience of trying to race a Polo TDI against a Tata Punch. I didn't had guts to go above 90 kmph on a two lane undivided road but he kept going well above that and disappeared. Even the Elevate CVT has a lower 0 to 100 timing than Creta or Seltos diesel. Those cars are so slow on highway because of their drivers, not because of lack of performance in cars.

If you make a comparison with turbo diesel and NA petrol cars fully loaded, then the difference in sustained driveability at highway speeds would be stark.

[YD14]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

If you make a comparison with turbo diesel and NA petrol cars fully loaded, then the difference in sustained driveability at highway speeds would be stark.

If we compare diesel and NA petrol of same cars like Creta 1.5 NA vs 1.5 diesel on our highways, the difference is not stark IMO. Yes there is a difference and in favour of the diesel but the petrol NA are not as dull in performance as people think and diesels are not as potent as people think.

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by bijims

You took the words right out of my mouth, BS4 and then BS6, NGT rulings, the ban on diesel cars over 10 years in Delhi, and a fear of diesel ban among the population altogether have been the reason for the decline in diesel sales.

Totally agree here. and even worse is that the picture is gloomy with each passing year!

I had bought the Sonet Diesel Auto mid-last year with a hope of retaining it to the max; however, today if I want to buy a car, I'm really confused between the Diesel and Petrol. I absolutely love diesels and superb engines like the one's from the Koreans make it all the more amazing. But these stupid norms / policies from the govt. are just killing it all.

NA petrol engines are completely out of the picture in today's day and age. It's either the turbo-petrols or the turbo-diesels. But with the sad fate of the Diesels, the only option left is the turbo-petrols with their abysmal FE's.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by YD14

If we compare diesel and NA petrol of same cars like Creta 1.5 NA vs 1.5 diesel on our highways, the difference is not stark IMO. Yes there is a difference and in favour of the diesel but the petrol NA are not as dull in performance as people think and diesels are not as potent as people think.

If you have a diesel engine & petrol NA engine with similar peak power output, attaching a CVT to the petrol engine will make it faster than the diesel when you do a 0-100, standing start - but I think we already know that.

The diesel in this case of Creta has a clever device in it called turbo charger which gives it all the power as low as 1500 RPM onwards, nice flat curve till perhaps 3500 RPM. So in city as well as highway driving, diesel will have an edge, it would be a far more relaxing effortless vehicle to drive while also delivering great FE.

A turbo charged direct injection petrol will also have this diesel like effortless
character, even quieter too at the expense of more fuel cost of course.

Given a choice, diesel is a no brainer but the worry of diesel ban keeps buyers away from it other than those who have high usage wherein they are going to replace the vehicles after 7-8 years anyways.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by YD14

Diesel engines are better in terms of performance than NA petrols, but this is a bad take on that. The NA cars are more than capable of cruising at speed limit and and zooming past other cars. I speak from experience of trying to race a Polo TDI against a Tata Punch. I didn't had guts to go above 90 kmph on a two lane undivided road but he kept going well above that and disappeared. Even the Elevate CVT has a lower 0 to 100 timing than Creta or Seltos diesel. Those cars are so slow on highway because of their drivers, not because of lack of performance in cars.

The usual scene on the highway is 3 passengers with luggage and the AC on, the punch won't leave you far behind. In gear acceleration is where diesel shines, speaking from my own experience with my diesel auto sonet versus my parent's City cvt, overtaking with a na requires a lot of planning. I find it irritating, but gutless petrols seem set to dominate with legislation in their favour.

[YD14]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The usual scene on the highway is 3 passengers with luggage and the AC on, the punch won't leave you far behind. In gear acceleration is where diesel shines, speaking from my own experience with my diesel auto sonet versus my parent's City cvt, overtaking with a na requires a lot of planning. I find it irritating, but gutless petrols seem set to dominate with legislation in their favour.

Had 4 adults in the Polo with AC on. It was a manual and I had to do a lot of planning, downshifting and upshifting for overtakes because of the turbo-lag. The power band in that thing was just from 2k to 5k rpm, caught me out a few times. On the otherhand, I have never had a problem overtaking in my father's Creta IVT with 4 adults+luggage+AC on. I guess it's just subjective.
But my point wasn't about our personal vehicles or experiences, even objectively NA engines aren't the reason for slow Indian highway speeds. Causa finita est

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by YD14

Had 4 adults in the Polo with AC on. It was a manual and I had to do a lot of planning, downshifting and upshifting for overtakes because of the turbo-lag. The power band in that thing was just from 2k to 5k rpm, caught me out a few times. On the otherhand, I have never had a problem overtaking in my father's Creta IVT with 4 adults+luggage+AC on. I guess it's just subjective.
But my point wasn't about our personal vehicles or experiences, even objectively NA engines aren't the reason for slow Indian highway speeds. Causa finita est

I was taking about the punch not your polo, the polo diesel was terrible unless it was a 1.6. The NA engine cars are a drag, in my experience, I'm glad you don't face any problems with them. The majority are entry level hatches/compact sedans and with about 110Nm of torque, they struggle. A 10 year old diesel swift is much better for highway runs, speed and mileage remains unmatched.

[arjab]

Quick clarification:
The sales number says "Diesel Sales" and then Diesel sales in %. And the balance % is petrol sales.
Therefore to understand the total sales of a particular model, we need to add the petrol % sales, right? Or is the petrol % included in the sales number stated.
For example: the Scorpio has clocked 93,000 odd units of retail. If 5% is petrol do I add, 5%, to get total Scorpio sales - i.e. somewhere around 97,000 units or is the 5% a part of the 93,000?
Look forward to your feedback.
Thank you