[Zezé]

Originally Posted by Wageabond

................

..........How is Force able to rock a steady boat re: Gurkha prices? Are they losing money on each model sold?

Since 1 April 2023, Force Motors has not manufactured even one Gurkha. And no one has a clue as to when the 2023 upgrade will be launched. The Gurkha's currently on the road are the 2021 and earlier avatars of the SUV.

[dingolphie]

Voted No.

For the record, just had our Jimny Alpha AT delivered 3 weeks ago. As an aside, my car buying journey is in the writers workshop.

I voted no, because I don’t think someone that wouldn’t buy the Jimny today, would buy it if it cost a couple of lakh less.

1. It will never have the interior sophistication and feel of a sonet or elevate - space, fit & finish, storage, nvh. Many cars offer a lot more. The backseats won’t satisfy teenage kids in the family on longer trips. As a single car for the family, elevate is certainly a more compelling buy in the same ballpark.

2. The driving dynamics are unlikely to appeal to someone who drives regular cars - solid axle turning dynamics, the vague steering, the high-up bouncy stance, the thirsty yet not-so-punchy drivetrain.

3. The look is definitely kei car. It needs a bit of work to remove the espresso on stilts impression in the front. She’s a bit narrow and has thin tyres too. It will never have the alpha vibe that Thar gives off. Looks wise, it’s subjectively a bit cute, but definitely more bug than big cat/wolf/bear.

If you still want it in spite of all these drawbacks, I’m sure you will pay the extra money. I don’t think there’s a lot of us and there may never well be. But I truly couldn’t care less. I’ve enjoyed every moment I’ve had with it. That being said I’m under no illusions as to its allure across buyers. If the criteria for success is mass market sales, it will never succeed.

For reference, my other car is a vento 1.6 TDI. The Jimny will be used by my wife in the wilds of Kochi city, with an occasional trip to some nearby point of interest in the western ghats.

But I don’t have an iota of buyers remorse. It is so fun to drive.

Btw - next plan is to hot rod the vento, buy a highway cruiser like the Innova and I’m all set!

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by pheru8b

There is the mind car, and the heart car.

All my life I bought those sensible, fuel efficient, compact, city-suited, practical cars. Cars that went from point a to point b with as little fuss as possible, a minimal carbon footprint, and low owner's anxiety.

And then I bought the Jimny. Knowing it's many cons, despite everything, and being over-priced.

And do you know what? It's 5,000 km already, and I still love the experience, still look forward to each drive, and try and make every excuse to create another reason to drive!

It's a car straight for my heart. And I'm loving it!

"Mind car" and "Heart car" are subjective terms.

For someone, Thar maybe a Heart car with powerful engine, butch looks and street presence. And Jimny maybe a Mind car with Maruti's backing and a fuel efficient engine.

So in my view, this whole heart vs mind debate is pointless, as its subjective.

[beingsidd]

The problem with Jimny is not the price its what it offers for the price. In my city the alpha AT almost costs 19 Lakh OTR and again one needs to spend 4-5 Lakh more to make it livable as a daily driver and weekend off roading capable vehicle.

I feel MSIL should add better alloys, seats, tyres and few more accessories to the car for it to start doing more numbers.

[sgmuser]

The problem with Jimny is that it does not have that cool factor which Thar has which pulled in big numbers initially and surprisingly it maintains its numbers still even after initial euphoria.

Thar is a capable (size/big engine/rugged) but compact vehicle which turns heads still. Jimny can not satisfy many of these criteria's - it is small (both inside/outside), pony engine, not abuse friendly, tiny looking (compared to Thar's butch looks and commanding seating). Being a 4 door, Jimny need to compete with something like its own sibling like Grand Vitara which is a far more matured and modern looking vehicle (lacks 4WD hardware) but in India, these decision making falls mostly with ladies and parents who will straightaway reject Jimny for GV. The only advantage Jimny has is the extra doors and nothing else but that can't alone help its own cause. Being the first in market also helped Thar and the cunning marketing of Mahindra by introducing 2WD variants from 10.x to 20.x basically nailed the coffin for the Jimny. Jimny can not succeed in India even in 2WD door avatar. It might be a niche product. But, if it has got launched before Thar, it might have been a different story. I really doubt even 1-2 lakhs less price going to make any big difference. Once the image is fixed that it failed then it is done, especially in Indian buyer mindset. If you observe closely, from XUV 5OO onwards Mahindra is very keen to price their product, build that success image and later on just keep increasing their prices. They repeated this strategy all along. Sadly, for Maruti, it is a great product with wrong engine and wrong launch timing.

[Mystic]

Originally Posted by Mystic

My take on Jimny projected as niche and a lifestyle vehicle:

This is in continuation to my thoughts already shared. This thread is becoming very interesting and lot of valuable inputs to Maruti on pricing. Once we buy it and start enjoying, price never comes into our discussions but only sweet memories. We owned a soft top 2 door left hand drive green Willis petrol jeep in 60s ( to accommodate luggage when going long drives, we used to attach a trailer) and in 70s, we had red VW beetle and now yellow Jimny. One thing common to all is the cuteness , small size, reliability, fun to drive. Small is beautiful and sometimes we may have to adapt to the smallness ( My previous car Crysta can hold 20 one liter bottles and my Jimny can hold 2 one litre bottles. I have bought accessories engineered in Japan to hold multiple bottles now in Jimny. As long as you love your car for what it is and it touches your heart, small creature comforts don’t matter and sometimes we may be OK even if the car we like is priced double the justified popular public opinion.Do we really complain if Baby Land Rover is introduced in India of the same dimensions of Jimny and discuss if it can be 10 lakh cheaper than half crore show room price.

I am not sure if Maruti really cares for our recommendations to reduce the price by 2 lakhs or what ever as a popular public opinion. What will happen if they actually increase the price by 2 lakhs in 2024 challenging the Indian buyers to buy if they want 4X4 or leave it as they donot care even if they sell 500 Jimmys in a month with all top end models only. They have huge fan following abroad. I personally will be disappointed if that happens to a car manufactured in India and exported and we Indians already lost an opportunity to drive 2 door Jimmy’s even though they are manufactured in India.

In another thread on music systems, I had
compared on how my 100 kg big cerwin wega speakers are on par in quality with my Bose speaker which is 2 kgs in weight. Sometimes small is great.

[RDS]

Well, I will add my 2 cents because I am a prospective buyer. My time frame is to buy SUV latest by March/April.

I make frequent trips - say 6-8 visits to the Himalayas (and very few other trips to the Plains - say Punjab, etc.) every year by car. I also see these trips increasing significantly after 1 - 1.5 years as I see retirement coming early from corporate life.

Most trips are usually to rural, far-off areas, so I am looking for Automatic AWD (a 4/5seater), but there is none in my budget in India - say up to 20L (or a little higher)!!

Usually, 850-1000 km round trip in a single journey is a given. In some cases, it can go much beyond (like Leh last year or another trip starting this Friday to HP, Punjab, and back to NCR.)

I will mention why I haven't bought the Jimny yet.

1) I haven't taken a test drive yet, and there are too many reviews - both positive and negative! Till I take a test drive, everything would be mind-made based on other people's experiences. This one is pending on me!

2) Most of my journeys cover plains, where 90-100 KMPH is expected, but the future seems to be 120 KMPH. For people who want to jump the gun and say it is not a racing car - cruising at 120 is not racing!

As I travel on highways, quick overtakes are very important.
I find Jimny underpowered for future highway cruising and especially quick overtakes.

3) I have neither the resources nor the requirement for two cars, so only one car is required that fulfills my need of mixed plain & mountain journeys+ city use. My fundamental requirement is AWD AT vehicle that is reliable for highways and remote mountain journeys.

4) Safety - I keep safety as the top priority and hence, the current cars in the family are Fords and Skodas.
Hearing reports like Braking issues above 17K feet and Maruti taking things casually is not great.
However, the fact that Jimny is getting exported and Maruti has started making safer cars is reassuring.

So, is money the reason that I haven't bought Jimny till now? - not at all. It is a combination of various reasons listed above.

On the one hand, Jimny is practical (barring the 5.7m turning radius, which is an imp parameter), and on the other, it doesn't deliver well on some crucial points for me.

I have three cars in mind now -

1) Jimny AT - Still retains the top spot because no 4/5 seater AWD Automatic options are available in India below 20 L!!

The practicality and reliability of Jimny, Maruti's service network, tried and tested NA engine, and being the only Petrol 5 door vehicle with 4WD AT in India below 20L works in Jimny's favor.

2) Thar 5 Door AT 4WD Diesel - I can't go for Thar petrol as I intend to drive significantly and don't want to be caring for fuel too much.
I don't want to choose diesel also due to new norms against diesel and DPF issues that usually arise on heights. However, this is the only other option that meets almost all my requirements.

Despite not meeting some of my requirements, the above two SUVs meet the most critical requirement I have - allow me to go anywhere I want, so they top the list.

3) If it comes to FWD - Upcoming XUV300 Turbo TC AT or even Creta AT (assuming they care about safety as they did for Verna.)

Which vehicles actually suit my needs (mostly unavailable in India?) - Ford Ecosport AWD AT, a Jeep Renegade AT, a more powerful Jimny AT with a better turning radius, or a Thar 5 Door 4WD Petrol with better Fuel efficiency.

If you have any suggestions for me, please share.

[Sidjohri]

Voted No.
I think the Jim is currently the most affordable '5-door' 4x4 vehicle in India that is super reliable and feature-rich. Pricing, though subjective, is okay IMO. There is no rationale in suggesting that it could be cheaper by a lakh or two - very difficult to arrive at parameters to justify so.
Jimny's slow off-take could be because of its delayed launch. Thar's latest avatar satiated the appetite of niche 4x4 / lifestyle SUV enthusiasts for a good three years before Jimny arrived. Not sure how many of them would be enticed towards switching to the Jimny so soon. A better picture would emerge when the 5 door Thar is launched (if it is priced competitively).

[dingolphie]

To my fellow members who want a cheaper, well appointed, 2W drive version of the Jimny with different looks and a more modern drive train - that sounds like the Brezza!

[s2K_scorpioN]

I initially did think the pricing was a tad on the higher side, but I've since changed my opinion. Let's imagine for a second, the exact same vehicle were to be sold under another brand name. I feel only Mahindra could have pulled off a cheaper price tag with the Jimny - that too with an introductory price. My point is, are we bashing the Jimny pricing since it's coming from Suzuki?

The manufacturer has never been known to make an enthusiast's car save once, with the Kizashi - we all know how that went. The problem with the Jimny's sales IMO, is the fact that the enthusiast in India isn't your typical enthusiast. Many of our people are first time buyers or are limited to a single car. Those true blue enthusiasts which are a few (hey that rhymes) usually have more than 1, often more than 2 cars.

These are factors that have to taken into account if one were to target sales (Jimny's backseat, lack of storage, creature comforts). Some of these are low hanging fruit. The fact these haven't been accounted for in the Jimny means either Suzuki was never really about the sales game on this one, or they have gravely miscalculated.

[joybhowmik]

Originally Posted by RDS

Well, I will add my 2 cents because I am a prospective buyer. My time frame is to buy SUV latest by March/April.

Spot on - with your observations sir.
Jimny as a product does not have what it takes to meet the sweet spot people have come to expect from a tourer suited for All-Over-India-Including-Bad-Roads-Vacation-travel
It's not a pricing problem. It's a product capability problem.
Suzuki may hide from this intrinsic issue due to its global appeal and mass market intentions, but it cannot argue with Jimny's faults.
a) unable to brake above 17k feet altitude , design limitation
b) unable to make a straightforward hairpin turn in the hills,
c) unable to produce the gutsy torque and power needed in the plains (to safely overtake) , and hills (to safely overcome)
d) Big Zero in terms of Street Cred - when it comes to commanding respect on the road. This by the way is the number 1 factor 2WD fortuners and classic scorpios get sold - the owners just love the ability of the cars to make their own space on congested streets of urban India.

[Neversaygbye]

Voted no, as I feel that the Jimny is a lifestyle vehicle just like the Thar is, and those in the market for a Jimny will buy one regardless of the price point where it's at. I really don't see the Jimny becoming the next Wagon R in terms of sales even if (hypothetically) it was sold at that kind of a price point.

The Jimny is a niche product and has its own set of admirers, but I think many of them have already bought a Thar and don't plan to spend money to get another 4WD car in their stable.

[Bhodrolok]

Originally Posted by joybhowmik

d) Big Zero in terms of Street Cred - when it comes to commanding respect on the road. This by the way is the number 1 factor 2WD fortuners and classic scorpios get sold - the owners just love the ability of the cars to make their own space on congested streets of urban India.

What is "Street cred"? I think what you have written seems more like ability to bully other vehicles to give way. I am glad its not another hooligan vehicle like the Thar or Fortuner.

As someone who's not directly invested in this since SUVs are not really my cup of tea, Jimny is the only Suzuki I would think of buying but as a second car; and this is true for a large portion of buyers hence the limited numbers.

[pheru8b]

Originally Posted by DCEite

So in my view, this whole heart vs mind debate is pointless, as its subjective.

You may believe it's a pointless debate, but I beg to differ. It is often way more important than facts and performance and logic and figures. Various factors go into enjoying a car, and several of them are terrifyingly subjective.

If you meet owners of old cars, those who still drive the cars they bought in the 80s or 90s, there is an extremely strong attachment. That's heart.

Vintage car owners who use them as daily drivers, despite the risk and maintenance. Again, heart.

My friend who refuses to let go of his first car, and drives it every day, despite buying several better ones - heart.

And another who regularly drives the car he proposed to his wife in. Again, heart.

Any car that puts a smile in your face, is a heart car. What could be better?

After all, what is life for if not to enjoy it? You may enjoy a Santro, someone a Dplphin, another a Benz, or an Alto or a Thar. This human psyche works on emotions, and cars are integral to emotions, too! So, whatever makes you smile is important and extremely valuable! And heart cars, whatever they may be, are consequently the most important ones!

Keep your heart up front and centre, and keep enjoying the long drive called life!

[pheru8b]

Originally Posted by joybhowmik

Big Zero in terms of Street Cred - when it comes to commanding respect on the road. This by the way is the number 1 factor 2WD fortuners and classic scorpios get sold - the owners just love the ability of the cars to make their own space on congested streets of urban India.

Sounds more like bullying to me than street cred!

The Jimny has its own street cred (of being a capable off reader, as well as a compact city suv) while the Thar has its own cred of good looks and a high adrenaline rush. Both have their own takers, however, who will appreciate the street creds their own way! Who are we to judge? To each their own!