[Sankar]

Originally Posted by omar

Would be interesting to know if they have similar priced cars there, ie competition.

Hmm... I never knew Australians were as hard pressed for choice when it comes to selecting a 4WD.

https://web.archive.org/web/20231111...r-50k-in-2023/

https://web.archive.org/web/20231111...o-go-off-road/

And then they have the choice of going pre-owned which would put a lot of top tier 4WD into the list, whilst staying under AUD40K price bracket.

I would not have bought Jimny if it was bigger (wider), this time I wanted something small but capable and Jimny is perfect.

[Bhodrolok]

Originally Posted by joybhowmik

If you havent driven a large vehicle (in India) you'll probably never know.

So much for hoity toity sensibilities.

Well I have driven both the Thar & Scorpio in my extended family but they are both terrible to drive with bad ride quality which doesn't get compensated by "street red' unless the only thing one judges it is by the ability to bully others. There's nothing hoity tooth about expecting basic decency on the roads by at least the 'educated" lot.

[omar]

Originally Posted by Sankar

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I would not have bought Jimny if it was bigger (wider), this time I wanted something small but capable and Jimny is perfect.

It definitely fits a use case. Just that everyone does not have that use case ( narrow/ 4x4).

Additionally, in my opinion, the front/ grill looks quite cartoonish or cute. We have multiple owners who have replaced the grill. Someone who does not know the grill can be customised, will reject the car. Something similar to the S cross transformation for the front will lift the sales here. The car needs to look a little less neutral from the front.

[saurabh041086]

From the very first sight at Auto Expo to price reveal, the desirability quotient for me has been more or less the same but under certain constraints.

I am not going to repeat the Japanese and reliability factor. But call it butch, bigger the better, intimidating, these factors do play out in our country if not us enthusiasts but at least for family. My current car 2022 XL6 AT, far from adjectives in previous sentence, which has been widely liked and appreciated by family and extended ones who have travelled in it for the space, comfort and practicality. I have already done a North to South and Spiti circuit in that.

Now even if everyone in family knows that Jimny might offer the capability to do those trips to upper Himalayas which we always avoid in Nov-Feb due to FWD drive car. But the interior space and size of Jimny is not easily digestible. So it can be a solo, Himalayan trip vehicle with friends, me or my father's go to vehicle whenever we drive to our farms. My personal/family commitments do not leave me room to spend time on such excursions as of now, hence deferring the purchase for 1 year.

So even if many feel this whole size thing is pointless, i would still say we cannot just ignore the other occupants views in the car, we can call it desire, comfort, ego whatever but this space/size is a deal breaker in our country in many households. Somebody pointed that its a grown ups toy. I totally agree to that. It is a small capable vehicle which one can soup up based on own taste gradually and it still won't let you down anywhere. But it is difficult to have as the only vehicle in house with 2+ members unless that size is an advantage on day to day basis for somebody living in hills.

Coming to the price even I felt a barebone 4wd at 9.99L would have been ideal and one can build it after that to own taste. But price alone won't be the dealer breaker in Jimnys case.

Some information on price. Just out of curiosity i did engage with couple of dealers in past few days to check on discounts.
After little back and forth, and some bidding war between dealers I have a final quote of flat 1.5 Lakhs on Zeta MT/AT(Oct make), which dealer is planning to top up with further accessories since I am showing little interest even after this. So that is effectively a on road price less than the listed Ex showroom price. I think with discounts it's getting closer to the price that I had in mind for it. Its purely on personal inability to use Jimny to its fullest, i will skip it for now.

And yes all this in Delhi, where dealers have been ghosting customers or do not want to invest time in general for somebody looking for deals.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by omar

It definitely fits a use case. Just that everyone does not have that use case ( narrow/ 4x4).

Additionally, in my opinion, the front/ grill looks quite cartoonish or cute. We have multiple owners who have replaced the grill. Someone who does not know the grill can be customised, will reject the car. Something similar to the S cross transformation for the front will lift the sales here. The car needs to look a little less neutral from the front.

For its exterior size Jimny offers more interior space than its closest in production 4WD competitor in India. The way I see it, large exterior footprint/size is a compromise on the street without proportionate increase in usable space inside or provide better vehicle dynamics.

I am using a de-chromed stock 5 slat grill, the most common horizontal aftermarket grill don't look good to me. I like the 5 slat grill so much that I've also got an aftermarket IRVM with a 5 slat grille pattern on it.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Sankar

For its exterior size Jimny offers more interior space than its closest in production 4WD competitor in India. The way I see it, large exterior footprint/size is a compromise on the street without proportionate increase in usable space inside or provide better vehicle dynamics.
.

I agree, the Thar’s vast bulky appearance belies the poor design and interior space management within, which is inversely proportional. While they tried to photocopy the Jeep from the outside, they ought have done a thorough copy job of the functional interior bits too. The 3 door Wrangler is also tight on luggage space but they have some saving graces in the form of Factory Fit Tumble Fold Rear Seats and the Armrests and spaces for the tool kits and the screws and bolts in case one is removing the hard top etc. Speaking as an owner of a Feb 2021 Copy of the Thar. Ive mentioned this in my initial test reviews.

When you look at the Jimny, by contrast, one is able to appreciate how well the Japanese have learned to maximise available space, just like their homes, cities, cars and all.

[sulliavi]

The road presence of THAR just defeats Jimny hands down. Ask any lady in the family to pick either one of them and they will choose THAR just for that reason
And, do we need to say more about engine options which Mahindra offers and its amazing AT ?

I agree with the gentleman who listed out the reasons for the Jimny's sales drop. And, Maruti is not worried about that for obvious reasons.

I personally dint like the stance of Jimny (no offence to anyone).

peace

[HappyWheels]

Originally Posted by sulliavi

...
And, Maruti is not worried about that for obvious reasons.
...

They are. Contrary to those standard practise, they are now offering 10k incentive to Arena sales person also if they are able to sell Jimny. And seems more offers on the way.

[shibujp]

Does anyone have the sales numbers of the Gypsy? Towards the end of it years it was a super niche highly priced product. Cult following rarely translates to sales....we have plenty of global.and desi examples.

Will the Jimny's sales spurt up if the price is reduced by a couple of lakhs? I am afraid I don't think so. Most of the buyers have no use for the capabilities that the Jimny brings to the table and similarly the capabilities that the Thar brings to the table. However IMHO that the Thar has one crucial aspect that a lot of people who do not have any use for the fundamental capabilities of both cars desire and that is street presence. Which is why it finds a lot of buyers in the urban market. Similarly to the myriad Jeep Wranglers you find in US cities.

I am pretty certain Maruti would be happy to produce the Jimny solely for the export market if it comes to that. It will definitely give them the margins they need. I doubt they had any belief that this would be some volume seller. If the Indian Army pick up the Jimny this would be the icing on the cake. We should remember that even after the price cut for the S Cross 1.6 and the last generation Baleno they did not set the charts on fire.

Drive on,
Shibu

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by shibujp

Does anyone have the sales numbers of the Gypsy? Towards the end of it years it was a super niche highly priced product. Cult following rarely translates to sales....we have plenty of global.and desi examples.

u

Just for info and relative comparison purposes, a bare bones OEM stock Gypsy used to cost around Rs 5.2 to 5.8 lacs on road Bangalore in 2004-2005-2006 depending on whether soft-top or hard top. Even then, one had to pay up and wait at-least for a month and the whole process was totally opaque. And the car loans were not easily available for a Gypsy-I think they used to give 70% on road funding as compared with a regular car which used to be funded about 80-85%. This is around the same time the First Gen Swift ZXi was introduced and its shape drew admiring glances from everyone and it had all the functions one needed like AC and music system and ABS and all. That used to cost Rs 5.8 lacs.

And the Bolero which along with the Scorpio and Safari, was probably amongst the more advanced ‘SUV’s out there in India, used to also cost 5.8 lacs for the Sportz 2WD Variant and 6.2 lacs for the GLX 4WD variant.

Even in those days, I would say, pricing was not really necessarily dictated only by size/ real estate and road-presence, but more by costs, freshness, features, vehicle type, desirability and target segment.

The Scorpio and Safari in those days used to cost (if I remember correctly) no more than 7.5 lacs on road. A first gen Honda CRV AWD used to cost 17 lacs. And a first gen Hyundai Tucson AWD used to cost about 15 lacs.

A brand new Mercedes Benz C Class was available at Rs 28 Lacs and it was way out of reach.

It is almost 20 years since those days. And the prices of every single thing has passed the stratosphere.

In 2016-2017 I had checked with Pratham and Bimal agencies and was told that one could get a Maruti Gypsy, only in white and only in the soft top variant and only by paying a significant advance and only after 3 months waiting. At that time it cost 8 lacs on road Bangalore. In 2018-2019 just before production was stopped the prices had gone up to 8.8 lacs on road Bangalore and that was mostly academic because it was not freely available anyway. Also consider that a top Specification Swift today costs about 12 lacs in Bangalore.

So I am not very surprised that the Jimny is priced the way it is. The road taxes are well known to be usurious in KA State. On this very thread a few posts and pages ago someone mentioned the on-road cost in Haryana or Chandigarh to be about 13-14 Odd lacs (because of the road tax being around 11%) and the same vehicle in KA State costs about 17 Odd lacs. This significant 3 Odd lac price difference is almost entirely due to the road tax loading.

We can all sit here and debate and speculate and pontificate on this subject until the cows come home, but I don’t think it is going to change anything much.

There are always going to be people who like and want / need and can afford and therefore, will buy the Jimny, but such people will always (in India at least) be much thinner on the ground than those who prefer and can afford and will buy the Thar.

As Shibu has pointed out, even the deepened discounts offered on the S Cross 1.6 (which was such a wonderful car), did not create waves in its sales numbers. I really don't think such a flat, price-drop strategy is going to work for the Jimny either, in terms of pushing it to reach Maruti Suzuki’s expected levels of sales numbers, in comparison to the other vehicles in their portfolio; (although I personally will gladly and greedily lap up any and all price off’s whenever I do decide to buy the Jimny!).

The Jimny then, in India, is always going to be a niche product and one day, just as they did with the Gypsy, the S Cross 1.6, the Kizashi and all, the ‘powers that are’ will simply pull the plug on selling it to us common folk in India and place their focus neatly on the International Markets, where people very clearly appreciate the Jimny much much more than we do and are prepared to pay for it as well.

As an aside, I remember someone asking me maybe 7 or 8 years ago on this very forum if he should buy an S Cross 1.6. My immediate advice to him was a resounding Yes!, because I was absolutely convinced that it would become a ‘future classic’.

Look around and one simply cannot find a clean and well kept S Cross 1.6 or Kizashi anywhere now. And there are hardly any clean well maintained civilian Gypsys available either.

With all this in mind, if anyone today, asks me a similar question about whether to buy the Jimny, I would say exactly the same.

And that is also why, with every passing week, while I still love my Thar very much in many ways, I am also gravitating towards making that Jimny purchase.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

And that is also why, with every passing week, while I still love my Thar very much in many ways, I am also gravitating towards making that Jimny purchase.

Your post was a much needed refresher and spot on
When we talk about pricing its always relative and should be in context. I doubt anyone wouldn't want things to be cheaper including automobiles but reality is today hence today's prices apply.

IMO the Jimmy feels special and well made, just like the S-Cross. The current discounts on it and the Ignis make me a bit concerned for their future, just like the S-Cross.
Hopefully I am wrong
If someone has plans for either of these cars, now would be a great time.

[shreevishnu]

Maybe I'm flogging something that's been done before -

1. Bring in 1.5 k15c with 6 speed at from the brezza, better mileage & low end torque - more livable in urban jungle.
2. Upgrade interior fabrics to washable PU, which you can hose down. 6 airbags + aftermarket seat covers are not confidence inspiring.
3. A rear diff locker, manual or otherwise, the wheel torque amplification is already there.
4. AT tyres instead of HT, no-one is going above the speed limit in this vehicle.
5. Better calibration for a more effective brake lock differential - software upgrades can give you lot more capability - wheel slip based traction control + torque vectoring off-road.
6. A complete customize at the dealer level & add parts later catalogue at NEXA, like KTM powerparts to take away sticker shock at first, allowing owners to upgrade their Jimny for off-road focussed capabilities.

You buy such a car as a keeper, not to sell in 3 years. Allow your customer to be faithful instead of discounting.

The jimny doesn't need more power, it needs to be clear if it's an enthusiasts low-price but high capability SUV, or is it the all rounder in your garage?

Discounts don't make it more interesting to its core audience, more capability could be cheap to add but allow MSIL to maintain profitability.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

In 2016-2017 I had checked with Pratham and Bimal agencies and was told that one could get a Maruti Gypsy, only in white and only in the soft top variant and only by paying a significant advance and only after 3 months waiting. At that time it cost 8 lacs on road Bangalore. In 2018-2019 just before production was stopped the prices had gone up to 8.8 lacs on road Bangalore and that was mostly academic because it was not freely available anyway. Also consider that a top Specification Swift today costs about 12 lacs in Bangalore.

Around late 2018 the dealer here in KL quoted about Rs.7.75L (lower tax) for the Gypsy. It was a heart driven purchase enquiry to lap one up before the production stopped but then mind took over and asked me to wait as the rumour mills were strong regarding the launch of Gen 4 in India.

When people start discussing prices history and relative price goes out the window. Is Jimny overpriced? Inflation. 200g Colgate toothpaste in 2005 ~Rs45/- and in 2023 Rs114/- Expecting Jimny to be sold 2 to 3lakhs premium over 2019 Gypsy costs or at the current Swift/Glanza prices are unrealistic. I agree that most don't seem to get it.
--

Jimny at a few lakhs dearer than 2019 Gypsy?

Those who keep a watch on the 4WD space will know that with Jimny Maruti has taken care about some of the modifications that some enthusiasts have done to their Gypsy to make it better off-road and/or on-road. Coil spring front and rear (no need to install failure prone fiberglass leaf spring or convert to coils for comfort and better articulation), better departure angle (like original SJ/JA without having to chop rear overhang of Gypsy), larger engine (close to having G16 Baleno engine retrofitted), factory fit AC (no need to worry about where to fit the condenser front or below floor), hardtop (a decision splitter but personally a plus), factory power steering (no need to mess with Koyo power steering kit) etc. Then there are people who have gone overboard with the basic body structure and installed an additional pair of doors on it! Thats an outlier but still it has been done in the name of making it a family tourer. Jimny has got that covered too with better appointed interior with factory fit comfort and convenience features. Then there is the safety kit including Airbags, ABS, TCS, etc and a brake enabled torque transfer algorithm that actually works which they call BLD. With all these basics covered it still looks, as some likes to call, "cute & harmless" even when compared to a Gypsy.

All this for a couple of lakhs more than Gypsy? Is Maruti a charity? Other manufacturers price their products at current inflated prices and people are okay with it but demand that but Maruti sell Jimny at Swift price

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Sankar

All this for a couple of lakhs more than Gypsy? Is Maruti a charity? Other manufacturers price their products at current inflated prices and people are okay with it but demand that but Maruti sell Jimny at Swift price

The greedy Indian customer , yeah that story would work in isolation but new Thar was launched in 2020 below 10L ex showroom with 4X4 and that mStallion engine, not significant until you look at the price CRDe left the scene with 11-12L OTR.

Mk1 Swift was a landmark product for Maruti without which Hyundai or some other brand would have wiped the floor with Maruti, I do not think Jimny is their best today as the Swift was when launched.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

The greedy Indian customer , yeah that story would work in isolation but new Thar was launched in 2020 below 10L ex showroom with 4X4 and that mStallion engine, not significant until you look at the price CRDe left the scene with 11-12L OTR.

I remember the 2020 Thar AX 4WD priced below 10L ex-showroom, the one with painted metal floors no carpet, bare bones interiors, no stereo, soft top, 6 seater with two side facing bench rear seats at the rear. That was priced appropriately as a Thar CRDI replacement which was a slightly modern MM540 and the Thar DI which is basically a MM540.

But what happened to it? Did Mahindra quickly and silently pull it out from the market because it would pull Thar's GNCAP rating down? Due to the side facing rear seats? 2020 AX is a proper unicorn. Did they sell any? Afaik dealers were not interested in booking that AX variant and by the time deliveries normalised that variant was nowhere to be found. When I booked the LX it was 1 year for delivery give or take a few months. When I cancelled I was told delivery could be hurried.

And the greedy what? And then what else Jimny in 2023 should have been sold at 2020 prices? How about if Mahindra continued selling Thar 4WD in 2023 at 2020 prices? That would have helped Jimny buyers save couple of lakhs. Greedy? Maybe its not the customers.