[Amrit@wheels]

Having experienced Tata's turbo petrol in a Nexon, I won't suggest anyone go with it over their diesel. Also, a 1.5L motor in a 1.8-tonne SUV doesn't inspire much confidence. If you're looking for a petrol SUV, the XUV700 is the better choice.

[Bhodrolok]

168 BHP seems a little less for the bulk of the Safari & Harrier, the XUV clearly has the power advantage.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Have heard of the 1.9l/2.0l diesels being either licensed from Peugeot or copied from Peugeot or coincidentally looking like the Peugeot engine spec while being an indegenious one or a smaller version of the 4SP from the 407 which itself is based on some Merc design(?).

The 1948 CC diesel that first appeared in 1988 in Tatamobile and was thereafter used in Sumo and Safari was developed locally but was derived from/inspired by Peugeot XDP. It wasn't an exact copy. It wasn't a smaller version of 497 SP used in 407 which has a connection with the bigger Mercedes OM352 engine (license produced by Tata as 697) with which it shared the bore of 97 mm.

Here is some discussion regarding the connection with Peugeot:

https://autoshite.com/topic/28881-th...ugeot-engines/

Originally Posted by DicKy

Haven't heard of anything related to the 2.1l MPFI, except that maybe it was from MG Rover in some sort of exchange for the MG Cityrover (UK export Indica).

2.1L MPFI was derived from the 1948 CC diesel engine but it had a bigger bore size - 86 MM instead of 83. It wasn't obtained from MG Rover.

[shancz]

This rekindled my teenage dreams of the original Safari petrol, even then I was a petrol head

So, does it mean that it would be the Harrier taking on the Creta-Seltos segment with a lower price tag rather than a new SUV(Blackbird IIRC) ?
A smart move if they're planning to IMHO.
Cashing in on the already established name and image of the Harrier being a segment higher, like they did with the Safari and the numbers show.

[FiatDiesel]

What I have heard is that internal team of Tata responsible for engine development is weakest link in the chain along with QC team. They are still living in “Telco” times while their peers in other departments have outpaced them to churn out the Next Gen vehicles. It seems TaMo’s top management also struggles with them else I am sure they would have had petrol engine included in Big Bang launch of Harrier & Safari in latest avatar.

[touring_spirit]

I don't understand the fascination for relatively smaller displacement engines for SUVs. City driving is going to return <8 kmpl and highways would be max 13 kmpl. With petrol prices skyrocketing hybrids would have made more sense,because ultimately AT would be preferred for an SUV of this size.

[motographer]

Originally Posted by shaheenazk

I absolutely agree. A 1500cc engine with 168 bhp is too puny for a heavy SUV like Safari or Harrier. Tata is making the same mistake as they did by incorporating a 1200cc engine with Altroz. 2000cc should be the absolute minimum and power to weight ratio must be atleast 100bhp/ton. Else, it will lack the grunt for quick acceleration whenever required, thereby marring the fun to drive experience.

Both Harrier and Safari are currently powered by 2.0 L Diesel engine which churns out the same power i.e. 170 bhp.

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by motographer

Both Harrier and Safari are currently powered by 2.0 L Diesel engine which churns out the same power i.e. 170 bhp.

True but their torque is 357Nm at much lower RPM , much higher than 280Nm at much higher RPM of their proposed petrol counterparts. Diesel engines have much higher pulling capacity or torque than petrol engines even if both have similar number of BHP, hence they do not face quick acceleration or load bearing problems especially when it comes to driving in the hills. A petrol vehicle owner will feel the pinch of lack of grunt the most in climbs if it doesn't have a big enough engine with adequate torque. Simply put, there is no replacement for displacement.

Originally Posted by shancz

This rekindled my teenage dreams of the original Safari petrol, even then I was a petrol head

I did not buy diesel Safari because I always wanted to buy a petrol head. By the time I was ready to buy the petrol version, it was unfortunately discontinued. Now that they might launch a petrol Safari again, it's disappointing to learn that the engine may be an underpowered 1500cc unit.

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

l
Regardless - a wise step in a market that (for no sensible reason) is moving blindly towards Petrol engines. Respite for car buyers in NCR also. And a big benefit for TaMo for CAFE2, net emissions figures. Shareholders will be happy with this news too.
If I ever was buying one of these (or any SUV for that matter, even the Seltos which I like), I know I'd still buy the diesel ones for sure . Somehow extremely hot running, high RPM petrol engines are never my favourite. A low RPM torque mill always for me.

As someone who is in a big dilemna on Petrol v/s Diesel, I would like to understand on the above as to how you perceive the future of Diesel vehicles bought today? Imagine you get yourself a Diesel Seltos shelling out close to about 25 L and I presume you would retain it for a good 8-10 years; where and what do you see you car will fetch in the 2nd hand market 10 years down the line ? With the stupid Diesel emission norms changing and getting worse every 2 years, I simply cannot comprehend what will be the fate of Diesel engined cars in 2033!!
We already know how the Delhi NCR folks are letting go their well maintained cars for peanuts. The fate of current diesel cars will be even worse 10 years down the line.

I’m too keenly looking in for a Diesel car as I simply love em; BUT this bad air around diesels is just sad and worrying.

Aside from the high rpm and stuff, the single digit FE of turbo petrols is really

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by ashvek3141

I’m too keenly looking in for a Diesel car as I simply love em; BUT this bad air around diesels is just sad and worrying.

Pick up a used diesel car of your choice and enjoy it till you can. Simple. You won't spend as much and you can also do a lateral upgrade to the next segment for a mouth-watering price, given the new car prices of today.

I picked up a full blown SUV for the price of a modern diesel hatchback. Keeps me grinning from ear to ear while I'm on the road.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Somehow extremely hot running, high RPM petrol engines are never my favourite. A low RPM torque mill always for me.

Agree almost completely with your analysis. However modern turbo patrols do not actually run at much higher RPMs for the same speeds, compared to turbo diesel. In fact in many cases they run at even lower RPMs then equivalent diesel engines. The 2.0 turbo petrol from BMW runs at as low RPMs as the equivalent turbodiesel engines from the same stable. In the G30 530i that I used to have, 100 kph would come up at around 1500 RPM, pretty much equivalent to the 520D, running at approximately the same rom or even a bit lower for the same speed. These engines are completely unstressed at motorway speeds, and it's steady cruising can give surprisingly good fuel efficiency. Currently I own an M340i that does 100 kph at leas than 1400 RPM. So ultimately it does depend on the state of tune of the engine. Do agree that the FE of turbo petrols drops a whole lot more than an equivalent diesel engine does, under hard acceleration or when carrying much heavy loads.

[fhdowntheline]

It is entirely poasible that the kerb weight of the turbo petrol Harrier will be somewhat lower than its present diesel avatar. Even if it reduces by about 100 kg , there could be dome difference.

[aslambhai]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Electric Tata Harrier to launch before petrol version.

The under-development 1.5-litre TGDi petrol motor will likely arrive with Curvv SUV before it makes its way to the Harrier and Safari.






Link

Given the +1year development timeline of the 1.5TGDi and from earlier interviews, I recall Curvv would launch with the new 1.2TGDi while Sierra is supposed to be the launch vehicle for 1.5TGDi. 1.5TGDi may eventually make it across all these vehicles (eg. Curvv Sport?, Harrier + Safari petrol), but given Curvv is closer to production, it may likely launch with 1.2TGDi unless the cited development issues are with both 1.2 and 1.5 motors.

[samyD]

Any update on 1.5 turbo petrol engine?
Is it coming with Curvv or Harrier?
Rumoured timelines for both are pretty close to each other.

[motographer]

Is it possible that Tata Motors is facing some challenges in making the TGDi engines feasible or workable. Saying this as there's is no mention of these engines which were shown in the Auto expo 2023 in any briefing from Tata motors' officials. All we hear occasionally is that these engines will be coming sometime soon. They were supposed to launch the 1.5 TGDi with Harrier facelift but they didn't and then said that that engine is atleast an year away. There's no mention of 1.2 TGDi also from Tata Motors with regards to Curvv. They only showed the 1.5 Diesel at Bharat Mobility. Somehow, it's making me feel that the TGDis might not be working out for Tata. Since I'm looking to buy a new petrol car, I have been waiting for these engines but now with these concerns in mind, I'm becoming doubtful of going for these engines(if they get launched any time soon) as one of the first customers. It feels like it's a big bet going for these engines without any reliability report about them. Also, seeing that the forum is full of threads about Tata's lack of quality controls and consistency, unable to understand whether it's even worth waiting for these petrol cars. I understand that internet in general has a negativity bias and people are more likely to report their negative experiences rather than the positive ones but they do make one doubtful as a car is a big expenditure and you don't want to travel frequently to service centre after buying one.