[aniketi]

My answer is No. Even though AMT's are slower than conventional AT's, they are automatics only for common man. What is automatic? You don't have to press clutch (it's absent only) and change gears with speed, you have to just manage accelerator and brake like Activa, Access, etc. Going by this definition, AMT's are also automatics just like conventional automatics, only difference is these are not that smooth and slow to respond. Recent AMT's from Maruti and Hyundai are quite good and actually serves the purpose very well. 3 months back I got Ignis AMT and I am totally satisfied with it. My wife, who is primary user of it is very happy with it and happy that she don't have to change gears anymore all the time and car don't stall at all however you drive it, specially while reversing. For common mango people like my wifey, AMT's are Automatic only. In fact some people are more happy that it has flexibility of manual mode wherever needed, like in ghat sections. Advantage of AMT is good average, in fact in some cases it's more than manual.

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by Altrozed

Once you hate AMT, that is eternal.
Once you know how to make the best out of AMT, then it solves many many problems.
Driving in Manual mode for Tata Nexon Diesel, it's a lovely feeling when you rev up till 2500+ RPM and then change the gear. It's a lovely joy stick push and the gear changes. You push it earlier, then there is a bing alert.

So, it's all about expectations vs practicality.
When we have to give rest to the left leg and when the AMT does that, learn to practice without jerks.
Do we drive the MT in jerky mode as we all did in our earlier days. AMTs are different breed and we have to behave as per the system and it's design.

But instead of adapting to it, I'll pedal to the metal and wants to RPM climbing up and gears not changing, sorry boss, this is not your GB.

Hyundai can make nice GBs and agreed but it still can't make safer cars. Thankfully, with Verna they woke up or pretending ,only time will tell.

AMTs appears to be more fuel efficient as many Gi10s have complained about single digit efficiency.

To conclude, AMTs are different league. To get the best out of it, LEARN to drive.

Ex-owner of a Renault Kwid AMT and current owner of an Ignis AMT here. Have also driven Tata AMTs and the grand i10 NIOS AMT.

Firstly, I didn't buy an AMT to "fiddle with a stick" while driving and see the revvs go up and down. I did it for the sake of convenience, which I will admit the AMT definitely offers over a manual. If I had to fiddle with a gear lever, I might as well have exercised my left foot as well and gone in for a proper MT.

Secondly, people who criticise AMTs here are not doing so on emotional grounds. This isn't a brand or a subjective issue. It's a purely objective opinion. AMTs no matter how cost effective and fuel efficient (in most cases), ARE jerky and unrefined. The best AMT I drove was the NIOS, but I still didn't find it to be anywhere in the league of the erstwhile grand i10 4-speed TC.

Lastly, people who criticise AMTs aren't novices. I won't name anyone, but there are experienced drivers on the forum who have tested multiple cars, racked thousands of kilometres over them and have then opined that AMTs suck. So your argument of "knowing how to drive" to get the best out of them is completely invalid here. People who "know how to drive" very well have opined on AMTs and the general opinion is that they are jerky and unrefined as compared to a TC or CVT.

Taking my foot off to smoothen gear changes, being easy on the throttle in the first and second gear since the AMT slips clutch to get off a standstill are completely acceptable to me since I have saved some amount of money upfront (in most cases) over a TC or CVT. However, sitting and fiddling with the gear lever (no matter whether I am stuck in traffic or not) to smoothen out shifts is something I am not going to be seen doing after paying a 50-70k premium over an MT.

AMTs are jerky and unrefined. Period. They do offer cost benefits and a lower entry point to the world of automatics. But they are limited by the hardware and tech they possess.

[Gupts007]

Call them by whatever name you must but an AMT transmission changes gears automatically and thus they are an auto gearbox in my books. Having said that they are crude and at the bottom of the auto transmission hierarchy. I myself drive a Baleno AMT and even though it offers the convenience of an automatic in every way, the way it does it is not too pleasant. Having experienced and lived with TC in the past on my Fortuner, this is Jurassic.

I agree with the OP's view on pluses on the manual mode in an AMT gearbox. It gives you the leeway to experience a manual in an auto gearbox. It is quite pleasant to drive in this mode. However the jerks and head nods in the AMT are an integral part of the AMT experience. A sudden pedal pushdown is when it falters like Tom being steamrolled by Jerry.

Seeing how bad the ubiquitous traffic is these days, an Auto was a must for me and the only small decent car with an Auto was the Baleno which sadly was downgraded to an AMT. Hence I had to buy it even though I was not too keen on an AMT. Will I buy an AMT again? Probably never as it is just too basic, just too slow and far too jerky to live with on daily basis.

[Altrozed]

Originally Posted by vishy76

Ex-owner of a Renault Kwid AMT and current owner of an Ignis AMT here. Have also driven Tata AMTs and the grand i10 NIOS AMT.

Firstly, I didn't buy an AMT to "fiddle with a stick" while driving and see the revvs go up and down. I did it for the sake of convenience, which I will admit the AMT definitely offers over a manual. If I had to fiddle with a gear lever, I might as well have exercised my left foot as well and gone in for a proper MT.

Secondly, people who criticise AMTs here are not doing so on emotional grounds. This isn't a brand or a subjective issue. It's a purely objective opinion. AMTs no matter how cost effective and fuel efficient (in most cases), ARE jerky and unrefined. The best AMT I drove was the NIOS, but I still didn't find it to be anywhere in the league of the erstwhile grand i10 4-speed TC.

Lastly, people who criticise AMTs aren't novices. I won't name anyone, but there are experienced drivers on the forum who have tested multiple cars, racked thousands of kilometres over them and have then opined that AMTs suck. So your argument of "knowing how to drive" to get the best out of them is completely invalid here. People who "know how to drive" very well have opined on AMTs and the general opinion is that they are jerky and unrefined as compared to a TC or CVT.

Taking my foot off to smoothen gear changes, being easy on the throttle in the first and second gear since the AMT slips clutch to get off a standstill are completely acceptable to me since I have saved some amount of money upfront (in most cases) over a TC or CVT. However, sitting and fiddling with the gear lever (no matter whether I am stuck in traffic or not) to smoothen out shifts is something I am not going to be seen doing after paying a 50-70k premium over an MT.

AMTs are jerky and unrefined. Period. They do offer cost benefits and a lower entry point to the world of automatics. But they are limited by the hardware and tech they possess.

1. Agreed, nobody buys to fiddle around the stick. And agree to the fact that the same jerky AMTs are widely accepted by market. This is the same market which rejected /accepted TC or CVTs. However best, CVTs are having rubber band effect. We should "know" how to minimize if you don't want to complain.


2. Who will be emotional to gearboxes or clutch plates sir ?
Yes, AMTs are jerky. There is no debate here. The debate is all about, there is an automatic option in form AMT, utilize it to have a longer life for your left leg. Adapt to it by understanding how it behaves.
Don't we all now trying to adapt to EV driving? Are we driving the EVs the same way we drive ICE cars? Do we drive Nano or Omni same way like Swift or i20 ?
There is a difference and that needs to be learned and mastered. Hope I'm clear on this learning part.


3. When 100s of Amt cars are sold in different brands, let's accept the fact that market has matured with or without choice to accept the jerky AMTs or they have found out how to get best out of it. People have found the same problem with rubber band effect of CVT. And premium cars have "upgraded" from CVT to "AMT" .

AMTs are jerky, unrefined and needs to be adapted to get best out of it. Period .

Cost benefits in the world of automatics and the joy of having left leg not getting swollen end of day trumps out all jerkiness it posses.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

...should we be using and looking at them as manuals?

I have been blessed to drive Manuals, AT, Knob-AMT (Kwid), AMT (with push-left-to use manual mode TRIBER).

I hated the Knob-Kwid because it worked in a different frequency than what I was used to. Note - I got the Knob after nearly 15 years of Manual driving. I felt I was paralyzed one side and could not feel left side of myself.

Triber changed that feeling. I could sync with the RPM's, Vibration, high RPM shifts, and happy go lucky down shifting of the Manual mode. I never drove the Triber in auto mode ever.

[46TheDoctor]

My feedback as a Nexon Diesel AMT owner after 80k kms of ownership:

My preference for various gearboxes is AT>AMT>MT only because i dont care much about the fuel efficiency, i prefer smoother lag free shifts in automatic mode.

Having said this,

1.AMT has an unique advantage over AT in the fuel efficiency which is as good as MT car when driven sensibly (I have got average 27-28 kmpl on some of my Pune-Baroda drives at legal highway speeds.)

2. AMT has an unique advantage over MT that your left leg is always resting and you need to do only upshifts in the Manual Mode, downshifts are taken care of by the gearbox.

Some important observations about AMTs:
1. Biggest problem with the AMT is the lag in gear shifts, so its a strict No for me in combination with petrol engines because they lack the torque to bridge up the lag in shifts.
2. Diesel engines like that of Nexon, XUV300 have good amount of torque which conceal the lag in shifts at cruising speeds very well - almost close to that of TC.
3. When you want to drive in a hurried fashion, you can shift into the manual mode and get rid of the lag completely.

So, Diesel AMT is a great option for someone who wants to have both - convenience of the AT and efficiency of the MT - but he will have to adapt to the new driving style of AMT. For example, when i am doing my Mumbai-Pune trips on the expressway, I use the car in Automatic mode while cruising on flat roads but i always switch to Manual Mode while crossing the ghat sections like Lonavala where i need to do frequent overtakings and lane switching due to indisciplined occupation of slow heavy vehicles in all the lanes. In city traffic, City mode in Automatic works fine as long as you are gentle on the throttle.

[AheadAJ]

Originally Posted by puntra800

On the highways it is a pain especially when overtaking but the best part one can switch to manual mode and go to the necessary gear position.

Every time you discuss AMT, the pain of overtaking comes up. Invariably the option suggested is to switch to manual mode. But why?

A slight press on the accelerator downshifts one notch and a hard press takes it two gears below, and the thrust latter provides will bring a massive grin on your face. (Fifth to fourth in the first instance and fifth to third in the second situation).

Often, when we are on an open highway, our younger daughter demands me to do this. And our car is humble Celerio. Try it and let us know.

Regards.

[FLYBOYSID]

Great point of view. I at times drive a Kwid AMT. The car is generally driven by my better half and is her daily runner. It is an Automatic as far as shifting gears goes, not a smooth one though. Shifting from Safari (Auto)/ Ciaz MT to Kwid does feel funny, however I love the convenience it offers while driving in the cramped lanes of Kanpur. In my opinion it would be wrong to compare it with TCs.
AMT has granted the next level of mobility to my spouse who otherwise found it difficult to manage the MT in city. In fact she has done a couple of trips to Delhi n Jaipur too. So thats a big Plus I guess. If it matches ones use case its awesome, if it doesn’t its not so good.

[dhanushs]

All the unwanted wear and tear in the MT's still come with the AMT's, with the added disadvantage of you not controlling the gear/clutch of the AT's.

So, I would say, consider AMT as a driving aid to those who arent that good at driving MT's. For all practical purposes of AT, get a CVT or a TC.

[am1m]

How good are the AMTs these days in mid-range cars? When were were considering a new car the last time, 5 years ago, we wanted to go auto, but the drive quality sucked in the sub-12L Marutis and Hyundais. So we stuck with manual. Have things improved in say the sub-15L bracket now? (I guess it's a moot point though, am pretty sure the next vehicle 2 or 4-wheels will be an EV!)

[audioholic]

I have AMT, TC and DSG at home and can compare AT implementations and draw conclusions on what’s better all day. But if the AMT is driven the way it should be, there won't be any jerkiness or head bobbing. Come on, that's the cheapest transmission to fix if something goes wrong and it will still shift faster than an average driver. And since these systems adapt over time, the AMT shift points tune very well with the drivers expectations after driving a few hundred kms. In fact I hate the torque converter lag of my Innova TC more than the shift lag of the AMT. It gives a smooth transition between gears but it is inefficient and reduces acceleration and saps power.

Call the AMT whatever is needed, but just drive the way it needs to be driven and it will keep you happy

[puntra800]

Originally Posted by AheadAJ

Every time you discuss AMT, the pain of overtaking comes up. Invariably the option suggested is to switch to manual mode. But why?

A slight press on the accelerator downshifts one notch and a hard press takes it two gears below, and the thrust latter provides will bring a massive grin on your face. (Fifth to fourth in the first instance and fifth to third in the second situation).

Often, when we are on an open highway, our younger daughter demands me to do this. And our car is humble Celerio. Try it and let us know.

Regards.

Totally agree with this(Have tried it in couple of occasions) but then may be psychologically my mind is tuned to believe that it is really not safe so I refrain and I have no reason to explain this.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by puntra800

Totally agree with this(Have tried it in couple of occasions) but then may be psychologically my mind is tuned to believe that it is really not safe so I refrain and I have no reason to explain this.

If you expect to finish overtaking with light press of the throttle and a higher gear, then you are doing it wrong. Manual or automatic or whatever, overtaking should be done with a heavy foot especially if done against oncoming traffic.

Originally Posted by AheadAJ

A slight press on the accelerator downshifts one notch and a hard press takes it two gears below, and the thrust latter provides will bring a massive grin on your face. (Fifth to fourth in the first instance and fifth to third in the second situation).

Exactly, never once have I had a problem while overtaking in my Celerio and I have pulled fast ones. Just press the accelerator harder than normal and it will hold gears for quite long to give the right acceleration required. Hold the throttle firmly pressed and it will hold till redline. And with a 1.0L engine, thats more than what can be expected out of the AMT box. The downshifts are very quick, its only upshifts that take a second due to waiting for the engine revs to fall.

[thisissoumya]

Very interesting way to look at AMTs. I have been driving AMT Duster for close to 7 years. During this period I also owned a MT mated to TSi (Polo) for 2 years. Lately I own a ZF 8 speed alongside the AMT. Here are my observations.

Between AMT & MT:

Between the two I would prefer the AMT GB any day for the sheer convivence it provides. If you want to drive aggressively just put it in manual mode and it holds the upshifts. If you really know your AMT, you can even downshift manually before it downshifts itself. Net net you keep the engine in boil and can go fast. I also believe its slightly more convenient to just push and pull the lever in AMT's manual mode than slotting it in specific gates as in the case of MT.

Between AMT & TC

Honestly there is no comparison between the two. Thousands of pages have been written about how lightning fast the ZF unit is.

Do I feel the slowness and the jerkiness of the AMT - "Absolutely"
Does it annoy or disappoint me - "Not at all"

Because my expectations are different in both cars and in my book - AMT is a manual with a bit of convenience.

On the reliability - My duster has clocked 61K over 7 years and apart from a bit of juddering in 1st & reverse gear (which started around 40K on ODO but hasn't worsen since), the gearbox is just fine. Even in twisty roads and hairpin bends the GB behaves well in manual mode. The juddering is about a 50K fix at Renault ASS which I haven't done yet because its livable and the SA says there is no need to fix it for now.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

(Couldn't find a topic exactly on this angle, figured it is worth creating one since it is probably relevant to many buyers).

.......

Thoughts?

I have been driving an AMT since last 6 years (Tigor).

What you described about using the manual mode on the AMT is true to some extent.

The gearbox does not upshift but does a downshift when revvs fall too low.

However, the only reason I do not use the manual mode very frequently is that the automatic downshift is a boon as well as a bane. A bane because when the revvs fall low, I need to be always aware at which gear I am on (On a manual its easier to know because of the gearshift position) but in the AMT you constantly need to see the central console to remind yourself of the gear you are in. Its a bit distracting.

Sometimes, you need to downshift (lets say to get pass slow moving traffic), but your gearbox already did it for you (say revvs fell too low), so you end up downshifting twice (one by yourself one by the gearbox). It gets a bit irritating.