[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I will believe it when I can purchase it. For all we know this could be just a quick sticker job on a regular E-10 production car with absolutely no changes underneath! Smells like another gimmick from those in power to showcase India is becoming lesser-dependent on imports! Make in India, India-shining etc etc.

It's not that hard to convert a car to run on E85, here is ChrisFix doing it himself in his driveway :

https://youtu.be/eo2jZjG1XA8

E85 cars and even E100 cars have existed for a long time. It wouldn't be too hard for Toyota Global to just import one of those own powertrains from their Brazil plants and install it in a Hycross here.

They have had cars that run on 100% Ethanol since all the way back in 2007:
https://www.greencarcongress.com/200..._launches.html

Originally Posted by audioholic

Initially when the reveal was announced, I thought Toyota will introduce a flex fuel version of the non Hybrid Hycross in order to push sales advertising the lower running costs of using >E20 fuel. However now I realise introducing the flex fuel hybrid made more sense because whatever engine power is lost while using this fuel, it wont change the driving characteristics of the hybrid and it will further lower the running cost of the flex fuel hybrid Hycross That sounds like an insane value proposition for fleet operators who have already warmed up to the Hycross inspite of its higher cost compared to the Crysta.

It's actually the other way around. Engine power is increased while using ethanol blended fuel but at the cost of reduced mileage since they need to inject more fuel per km to make up for the reduced energy content. Now whether it is green or not is questionable but they were commonly called race fuel for a reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_DQPLihXfo

[gb97ce6]

The direction this will eventually take us is crystal clear.

We must thank this politician for not sugarcoating ( no pun intended )


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...4.cms?from=mdr

He has clearly articulated this is purely a political decision. So we don't have to pull our hairs out wondering who is making the decision and why.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by volkman10

This 'Electrified Flex-Fuel' is an ongoing project in Brazil.

Originally Posted by Cresterk

It's not that hard to convert a car to run on E85... E85 cars and even E100 cars have existed for a long time.... It wouldn't be too hard for Toyota Global to just import one of those own powertrains from their Brazil plants and install it in a Hycross here.

I completely agree that flex fuel cars are not new and its a mature technology. I personally have rented E85-rated Ford Fusions, Explorers and Edges in the US during 2010s. Although its another matter than I always filled them with regular 87.

I dont wanted to be against forum rules & be infracted, but I am just doubting the intention behind this PR exercise. Why are so many Central Ministers attending a manufacturer's event about a prototype? Is this a government event or a Toyota event? The liberal use of terms like global's first & Make in India seems to be beneath Toyota's humility! What is Toyota's alignment & readiness to E20, which seems to be a more pressing concern? What about market acceptable BEVs below 10L ruppees? Our government goes on implementing policy after policy but implementation seems be failing! It is just like showcasing Mirai way back in 2022, which has not benefitted common man in any manner!

[volkman10]

Major changes made to turn the Toyota Innova Hycross strong hybrid into a flex fuel model.






- Motor Driven VVT

A normal gasoline-powered engine can start at temperatures lower than zero degrees. Since ethanol’s heating temperature is much higher, it will face issues with cold start and take more time to start up. So, changes have been made to the engine to eliminate an ethanol car’s cold start issues and will now function at temperatures as low as negative 15-degrees Celsius.

- Improved corrosion-resistance within the Engine

Since the chemical nature of ethanol is more acidic than petrol, combined with its higher water absorption, it puts the engine at a higher risk of corrosion. As such, the flex fuel prototype gets ethanol compatible spark plugs, valve and valve seats and piston rings, which will resist corrosion and improve the wear and tear. Essentially, any components directly in contact with the high-ethanol fuel have been treated for the same.

-Three-Way Catalyst

A more advanced three-way catalyst is used on ethanol-powered cars, so as to reduce the emissions significantly. It is also because the combustion of ethanol produces different hydrocarbons, besides NoX and carbon emissions, than regular petrol. This way, it complies with the BS6 phase 2 compliance norms.

-High Pressure Fuel Injectors

This is a significant change to the petrol-engine. Ethanol burns at a higher temperature than gasoline, and the engine needs more of it to burn to generate the performance needed. The Ethanol-powered Hycross employs high pressure fuel injectors (direct fuel injection) that not only provide the required flow rate, but also have been reinforced to the extra heat and be corrosion resistant.

- Changes to the Fuel Tank

Anti oxidant materials and coating have been used to modify the fuel tank and fuel pipe of the Innova Hycross. This again has been done to keep corrosion and rusting at bay, ensuring a smoother fuel-flow over a long period of time.

-Ethanol Sensor

A key addition over the regular Hycross in the flex fuel MPV is that it also gets an ethanol sensor, which measures the mix or concentration of ethanol in the fuel. The flex fuel sensor relays this information to the specialised ECU to electronically adjust other aspects of the engine. This is no different than how regular petrol models can detect the octane ratings of the fuel. Also, if you happen to top-up on a lower blend like E20 in case you’re not near an E85 pump, the system needs to be able to assess the current blend in your fuel tank to continue smooth operations of the engine.

- Changes to the ECU

The ECU (engine control unit) of the Hycross flex fuel determines the electronically controlled functions of the engine based on the percent of ethanol blend detected by the ethanol sensor and accordingly calibrates the settings. This ensures that the engine seamlessly works on different percentages of ethanol blend, ranging from E20 to E85, or even just petrol, which is the definition of a flex fuel vehicle.

However, it is still far away from production and several tests and calibrations need to be done before making it ready for Indian roads.


Link

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Major changes made to turn the Toyota Innova Hycross strong hybrid into a flex fuel model.

Motor Driven VVT
Since ethanol’s heating temperature is much higher, it will face issues with cold start and take more time to start up. So, changes have been made to the engine to eliminate an ethanol car’s cold start issues and will now function at temperatures as low as negative 15-degrees Celsius.

- Improved corrosion-resistance within the Engine
prototype gets ethanol compatible spark plugs, valve and valve seats and piston rings, which will resist corrosion and improve the wear and tear. Essentially, any components directly in contact with the high-ethanol fuel have been treated for the same.

-Three-Way Catalyst
It is also because the combustion of ethanol produces different hydrocarbons, besides NoX and carbon emissions, than regular petrol.

-High Pressure Fuel Injectors
This is a significant change to the petrol-engine. Ethanol burns at a higher temperature than gasoline, and the engine needs more of it to burn to generate the performance needed.

- Changes to the Fuel Tank
Anti oxidant materials and coating have been used to modify the fuel tank and fuel pipe of the Innova Hycross. This again has been done to keep corrosion and rusting at bay, ensuring a smoother fuel-flow over a long period of time.

- Changes to the ECU
This ensures that the engine seamlessly works on different percentages of ethanol blend,

However, it is still far away from production and several tests and calibrations need to be done before making it ready for Indian roads.

Man! Goes to show what a beast ethanol is, and what all changes need to be made for ethanol material compliance. And they are candidly saying that a lot more testing and validation is still needed. This is coming from Toyota, who has been selling E85 vehicles in Brazil for decades. Owners of E0, E5 and E10 rated cars, this is the official list of the established failure points for your old cars.

A point of note is that the flex fuel prototype seems rated for cold starts only upto -15 degrees C. Petrol used to be the fuel of choice in places like Spiti and Ladakh during winters, because there were no starting issues. This seems to be another layer of complication in extreme conditions for E blends which didn’t exist for plain petrol.

[ashis89]

ToI has reported today that KA government has already placed order for 30 units of this "concept" model.

Said to be the world's first fully ethanol-powered car equipped with a flex-fuel engine, the model was launched recently. The government placed an order after the August 29 launch.

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/beng.../103296732.cms

Meanwhile the existing Hycross sold today is not yet E20 compliant as Toyota confirmed.

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Meanwhile the existing Hycross sold today is not yet E20 compliant as Toyota confirmed.

Initial units that rolled off the production line were E10 compliant, now the HyCross Hybrid and HyCross Petrol get a E20 sticker on the fuel flap indicating that they’re E20 compliant.

[volkman10]

Toyota Innova Hycross flex fuel showcased at India Sugar and Bio Energy Conference (ISBEC) 2023.

Recently, TKM unveiled the prototype of World’s First BS 6 (Stage II) Electrified Flex Fuel Vehicle built on its renowned Innova Hycross. This prototype was at display during the ISBEC, alongside the Toyota-Brazil manufactured Corolla Flex- Fuel Strong Hybrid Electric Vehicle (demonstrated as Toyota’s first-of-its-kind pilot project in India, during Oct 2022).

Link

[volkman10]

Toyota Innova Hycross Flex-Fuel showcased at Bharat Mobility Expo 2024.

Flex-Fuel Innova Hycross among multiple Toyota cars showcased
Power output remains unchanged

Toyota claims that even though it is meant to run on a mix of 20 per cent or more of ethanol, the power output will stand to remain unchanged. For the uninitiated, a majority of the fuel pumps in India currently sell petrol with a 20 per cent blend of ethanol.

The Innova Hycross, be it the standard or the Flex-Fuel version, is powered by a 2.0-litre, four-cylinder, NA petrol engine producing 143bhp and 188Nm of torque. There is an electric motor in tow, which develops 11bhp and 206Nm.

Link:

[varunswnt]

Originally Posted by anandbangalore

Does it mean 'move to petrol, junk diesel, and your fuel is cheaper and made-in-India?'

No one said, "Ethanol blending will make Fuel cheaper.", everyone assumed.

There are many things nowadays that are said left right and center without any consequences. We live in an era of opinionated speech.