[Fiero]

Filed RTIs with ARAI, MoPNG, PPAC (MoPNG) and OMCs (IOCL, HP, BP). Received the following responses.

Some of the responses are interesting:

- AAI seems to suggest that E20 is hardly an issue for E10 compliant vehicles.
- PPAC has confirmed that we are at 11-12% ethanol blending in majority of the states.
- MoPNG has passed the buck onto OMCs completely (very disappointing).
- OMCs say a joint study has been conducted by OMCs and OEMs, but surprise surprise, the report is confidential. BP gave a similar response but said I should go back and ask MoPNG for the report. IOCL has not responded.

Many questions (as expected) have not been responded to, or properly responded to.

[Fiero]

Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli

Dear forum mates, Bhpians

I will share more information as and when I receive it.

Hi. Did you receive any responses from OMCs?

[Nilesh5417]

This whole E10, E20 transition is completely opaque. The government doesn't care about millions of car owners and the manufacturers are probably happy that people will buy new cars, after sales may go up on older ones (esp those who go to a.s.s.).
What is even more irritating is the nomenclature- E10 isn't 10%. It's already higher and a range is used to describe its composition. X-Y% can be anything but 10%. What kind of standards are these? <end of rant>.

[AjayV]

Technically, doesn’t it increase pollution?

I mean, the dual benefits of lower forex spending and “going green” mantra is at the cost of damaged fuel tanks, lines and pumps which will be replaced (I’m not even going near the engine itself as modern engines are aluminium alloys built and will last with such fuels) - every few years depending on usage, all those rubber and plastic and metal parts go to the landfills at the end. The cost is being borne by the consumers and the others are whitewashing the policy and hiding behind the “going green” aspect knowing it is not right in the long term.


The solution is to make total shift. Phased manner to either hydrogen/ethanol fuel by selling those vehicles alongside with the regular vehicles. Just like what’s happening with EVs now. The infrastructure is already in place, you’re just replacing the fuel type.

The challenges here will be multiple like initial high costs of investment and also at global level because auto makers would rather have a few products sold across markets vs making specific product for specific market. Again, nexon is a good example of one vehicle with multiple options like EV or fuel based.

With proper planning and push, I’m sure it is a viable option, unless the OPEC decides to slash the crude prices and keep fossil fuel based vehicle’s cost of ownership interesting.

Apologies for the rant but I guess it is what it is.

I offer my appreciations for putting in the efforts for questioning the government policies to make us more aware about it.

[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by Fiero

Filed RTIs with ARAI, MoPNG, PPAC (MoPNG) and OMCs (IOCL, HP, BP). Received the following responses.

This is a great effort. Thank you for taking the initiative for the betterment of the driving community.

Would it help if we also seek a reply from the office of Nitin Gadkari and letting him know that you haven't received definite responses from all the above.

[batladanny]

Thanks for taking the effort to file this RTI. Much appreciated!

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by Fiero

Some of the responses are interesting:

- AAI seems to suggest that E20 is hardly an issue for E10 compliant vehicles.
- PPAC has confirmed that we are at 11-12% ethanol blending in majority of the states.
- MoPNG has passed the buck onto OMCs completely (very disappointing).
- OMCs say a joint study has been conducted by OMCs and OEMs, but surprise surprise, the report is confidential. BP gave a similar response but said I should go back and ask MoPNG for the report. IOCL has not responded.

Many questions (as expected) have not been responded to, or properly responded to.

Thanks for your initiatives in this direction. Really requires time, efforts and lots of patience.

- AAI appears to be off its head. They were involved and indicted way back in 1987 in the Standard 2000 fuel efficiency scandal. Please go for a first appeal with the First Appellate Authority at AAI simply stating that the CPIO has provided an unverified and slip-shod reply that doesn't stand scrutiny in the field of automobile engineering. It also requires a second appeal if AAI continues as such.

-PPAC reply I feel is non committal and nevertheless doesn't call for a first appeal.

- A first appeal with the First Appellate Authority in this Ministry is called for as it is the policy making authority. In fact, Niti Aayog and MoPNG have formulated the Ethanol policy 2020-25 for the govt of India.

- The OMCs stating that the report is confidential also calls for a first appeal with their respective First Appellate Authorities and thereafter a second appeal (can be done online) with the Chief Information Commissioner. PDF copies of documents have to be uploaded on the CIC portal. The second appeal takes about 10-12 months to come up for audio hearing on our provided phone numbers. This delay is because there's a long queue of pending cases.

Whatever cannot be revealed in Parliament also cannot be revealed through RTI. But the OMC document can be asked for by any MP for discussion in either houses of Parliament, as it does not involve any national security or defence related matter.

[siren373]

Im just curious if the high octane fuels like Power will be blended to 20% as well? Thinking of shifting to these fuels otherwise to save my engines

[pg2003]

Originally Posted by siren373

Im just curious if the high octane fuels like Power will be blended to 20% as well? Thinking of shifting to these fuels otherwise to save my engines

Isn't it already established that 91/95 octane fuels are already being blended to the tune of almost 12%?

The only people who'll end up losers in this fiasco are consumers, who are forced to buy blended fuel without any incentive for it. Also, they will end up paying for the accelerated wear and tear of the engine due to this rubbish

[tiagoatrix]

Thanks @fiero for the effort.

E20 dispensers will be clearly marked, I saw one such fuel pump in Thrissur, Kerala.

I believe that E10/12/20 will coexist for many many years, nothing to worry.

Reply 3 : from HP says that the study of Ethanol blended petrol on commercial vehicle is confidential! Can't understand what's confidential? doesn't bring confidence.

Finally, price of Ethanol blended should be less than the regular petrol but as always, the benefit will be passed to the corporates and political parties, we consumer will be left stranded.

[achats]

Is there anyway to force the OEMs to publish the list of impacted parts and have a paid replacement kit option for existing E10 vehicles? I would rather do pre-emptive maintenance than wait for these parts to give up and be stranded on some highway.

[enj0y_ride]

Originally Posted by Fiero

Filed RTIs with ARAI, MoPNG, PPAC (MoPNG) and OMCs (IOCL, HP, BP). Received the following responses.

Some of the responses are interesting:

- OMCs say a joint study has been conducted by OMCs and OEMs, but surprise surprise, the report is confidential. BP gave a similar response but said I should go back and ask MoPNG for the report. IOCL has not responded.

Many questions (as expected) have not been responded to, or properly responded to.

Great effort !!! Thank you for this. In one response from HPCL , they say Power 100 does not have Ethanol. I always thought its the additives that made it premium. Does that mean the equivalent brands from IOCL and BP like XP, SPEED etc too have lesser Ethanol content? Does anyone have info on this matter

[Fiero]

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

This is a great effort. Thank you for taking the initiative for the betterment of the driving community.

Would it help if we also seek a reply from the office of Nitin Gadkari and letting him know that you haven't received definite responses from all the above.

I will file appeals as well. Lets see if the response is better. I think one thing that could help is for many folks to continuously seek answers from MoPNG and OMCs on social media / email voicing concerns car owners have with this. Somewhere the visibility and pressure may build up. Quite possible it will be ignored as well. Worth a shot.

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

This whole E10, E20 transition is completely opaque. The government doesn't care about millions of car owners and the manufacturers are probably happy that people will buy new cars, after sales may go up on older ones (esp those who go to a.s.s.).
What is even more irritating is the nomenclature- E10 isn't 10%. It's already higher and a range is used to describe its composition. X-Y% can be anything but 10%. What kind of standards are these? <end of rant>.

Really looks like a classic case of crony capitalism, doesn't it? Government benefits (shortcut method to cut oil imports), industry benefits (a decade worth of guaranteed purchase), OMCs benefit (we know they won't pass on the entire benefit of cheaper ethanol), OEMs benefit (increase in spares, warranty rejection), but the end consumer looses out.

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

Thanks for your initiatives in this direction. Really requires time, efforts and lots of patience.


- The OMCs stating that the report is confidential also calls for a first appeal with their respective First Appellate Authorities and thereafter a second appeal (can be done online) with the Chief Information Commissioner. PDF copies of documents have to be uploaded on the CIC portal. The second appeal takes about 10-12 months to come up for audio hearing on our provided phone numbers. This delay is because there's a long queue of pending cases.

Whatever cannot be revealed in Parliament also cannot be revealed through RTI. But the OMC document can be asked for by any MP for discussion in either houses of Parliament, as it does not involve any national security or defence related matter.

I will press MoPNG for this. BP has suggested that I ask MoPNG. Lets see

Originally Posted by tiagoatrix

Thanks @fiero for the effort.

E20 dispensers will be clearly marked, I saw one such fuel pump in Thrissur, Kerala.

I believe that E10/12/20 will coexist for many many years, nothing to worry.

But we have already crossed 10% blending for 91/95 octane fuels without it being marked anywhere - this is exaclty the issue.

[silvercloud]

The report has not been shared citing 8.1d of the RTI Act which allows withholding information if it includes commercially confidential information, trade secrets or intellectual property.

However do the results tables and extracts have such details. If possible try to ask for a report with omits out the only those parts which contain confidential information.

[Sebring]

Have our crude imports reduced by at least 10% after Ethanol implementation, or is it soaring up and away, thanks to new vehicles being added daily?