[t_chat]

Dear BHP-ians, I am starting this new thread to discuss and gain more knowledge on the latest updates done by Maruti Suzuki for the New Brezza. The major update is that Maruti has removed the Smart Hybrid technology from all the Manual Transmission variants and kept it only for the Automatic ones. Also, as per the brochure only the Automatics variants are getting the Idle Start/Stop feature. What is confusing is, the variant names in the selector drop down where you check the prices (as per State/UT) have been changed to - NEW BREZZA K15C ISG 5MT LXI/VXI/ZXI/ZXI+. Question is, what is this ISG? Can BHP-ians please help here.

[aviator1101]

Good for Maruti.

It was never a Hybrid Technology in the first place. Just a Integrated Starter Generator being used for start/stop and regenerative braking etc.

They were served notices earlier also for using the dubious SHVS technology in their cars. This must be a damage control measure.

[Reinhard]

Good riddance. I really used to hate that SHVS badge on cars, which practically screamed "Cheating".
That start-stop feature in any car - is extremely frustrating, and the cost of associated components (motor/generator, battery pack) is unnecessarily borne by the customer, for a start-stop feature that most don't really want to begin with. It used to cut off AC in hot traffic conditions. Those who have used office cabs for transport with 100% seat utilization know the pain associated with it!

[giri1.8]

This is the most useless feature on our Sigma Grand Vitara, they could have ditched this and priced the base model below the 10L mark.

[t_chat]

Only thing is, Maruti could have lowered the prices of the MT variant or offered some discounts. Prices still remain the same!

[r2212xx]

Originally Posted by t_chat

what is this ISG?

The ISG stands for Integrated Starter Generator used for the start-stop system. Vehicles with this component use what one may say a mini-generator/motor to start the engine during start-stop usage. It can work with a secondary battery to supply supplementary power in certain scenarios preset by the manufacturer. That is why it is also called Mild Hybrid.

There may be variations in the ISG system, the complexity may vary as per the vehicle, and different manufacturers may call it by different names, but the fundamental theory remains the same. In fact, ISG is also found in the Activa 125, although it is a very simple system there and only used for start-stop management and does not have mild hybrid tech.

Previous-gen Brezza had mild hybrid only in the AT variants. Therefore, no surprise Maruti reverted to the original setup, perhaps realising that the system makes more sense in AT variant, both in mechanical terms and in terms of pricing.

[kedar_GT]

Originally Posted by t_chat

What is confusing is, the variant names in the selector drop down where you check the prices (as per State/UT) have been changed to - NEW BREZZA K15C ISG 5MT LXI/VXI/ZXI/ZXI+. Question is, what is this ISG? Can BHP-ians please help here.

Originally Posted by aviator1101

Good for Maruti.

It was never a Hybrid Technology in the first place. Just a Integrated Starter Generator being used for start/stop and regenerative braking etc.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Good riddance. !

I thought in addition to the stop/start, the battery was also used to boost the lower end and in turn helped return a better fuel efficiency (from the note it appears it is a ~2.5kmpl under standard conditions). This is too large a saving to just ditch for folks using this in the city ...
Are you'll saying that all these savings are just an effect of switching off the engine at every stop?

And if they have removed ISG, why did they name the new variant as NEW BREZZA K15C ISG 5MT?

Am confused.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by kedar_GT

I thought in addition to the stop/start, the battery was also used to boost the lower end and in turn helped return a better fuel efficiency (from the note it appears it is a ~2.5kmpl under standard conditions). This is too large a saving to just ditch for folks using this in the city ...
Are you'll saying that all these savings are just an effect of switching off the engine at every stop?

Any associated mileage difference is practically impossible to verify to be honest. Too many variables involved & customer can easily be taken for a ride. I never felt any real difference in the same car model, with and without "SHVS" - on mileage or power delivery (the cab drivers that had these SHVS / non SHVS Ertigas at my office - said the same always). Maybe my senses have aged too much & I couldn't feel the difference. Nevertheless - I'd still be happy as acustomer if that system is really gone. One of the things that I like about the Ignis I own - is that it does not have this technology.

Originally Posted by kedar_GT

And if they have removed ISG, why did they name the new variant as NEW BREZZA K15C ISG 5MT? Am confused.

If indeed that is the case - then dhuh! My joy was short-lived. Then it just means they have been spooked by some notification about the usage of the term "hybrid" & have now simply made it "ISG". And that - also clarifies why there is no change in the price at all.

[t_chat]

Mod note: Back to back post, use Multi Quote [Quote +] instead. Thanks.

Originally Posted by kedar_GT

I thought in addition to the stop/start,
====
Am confused.

I have the exact same confusion. What I am guessing (100% guess ) is, that the ISG will be used only for the low end torque boost in the new models. The Auto Start/Stop feature has been removed altogether from the MT variants.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

If indeed that is the case - then dhuh! My joy was short-lived. Then it just means they have been spooked by some notification about the usage of the term "hybrid" & have now simply made it "ISG". And that - also clarifies why there is no change in the price at all.

I believe that is the case. In any case, it is hard to believe that the so-called "Smart Hybrid" tech used to help achieve a mileage difference of ~2.51 kmpl in the ZXI variant. (earlier it was 19.89 for the ZXI, now it is 17.38 as per new brochure across all MT models).

[wheelguy]

Not only that, they slyly removed ESP and hill-hold assit too, from the CNG variants.

Brezza CNG variants have seen a reduction in safety features. The electronic stability program (ESP) and hill-hold assist have been removed from the CNG trims, a big concern for safety conscious buyers.

Source

[aveoman19]

I always thought the Smart Hybrid was a gimmick. Many of us would be more interested in the GNCAP Scores and if Maruti have decided to include 3 pointed seat belts as standard for the middle passenger like they very thoughtfully did for the Baleno and Fronx.

[Voodooblaster]

Revision in Motor Third party premium for FY 23-24

Govt is proposing revision in Motor Third Party and Liability Premium. Key takeaways for Car Insurance is discount in premium for Electric and Hybrid vehicles.

Whether vehicles having mild hybrid system will be eligible for the same remains to be seen (Brezza, Ertiga, XL6, Ciaz are case in point). This could be a reason why Maruti has removed the Smart Hybrid technology from all the Manual Transmission variants in Brezza as mentioned in this thread ( Link (Brezza: Maruti removes Smart Hybrid technology from all MT variants, now only for AT?) )

Logically these vehicles should not be allowed the discounted premium as subsidies availed by Maruti for mild hybrid technology SHVS is not viewed favourably. (TBhp Link) (Maruti gets notice for the second time for 'dubious' hybrid tech (SHVS))

The Ministry of Road Transport and Highways (MoRTH) has issued a draft notification dated 14.06.2023, proposing Motor Third Party Premium and Liability Rules for the Financial Year (FY) 2023-24

MoRTH prescribes the base premium rates for motor third party insurance from time to time.

Base premium for third party insurance for unlimited liability has been proposed for various classes of vehicles.

Following discounts in premium are also proposed to be allowed in the said rules:

• A discount of 15% has been proposed for educational institution buses.

• A discount of 50% has been proposed for a private car registered as Vintage Car.


• A discount of 15% and 7.5% has been proposed for Electric vehicles and Hybrid Electric Vehicles, respectively.

Further, a reduction of about 6.5% in the base premium rate has been proposed for 3-wheeled passenger carrying vehicles. Comments and suggestions are invited from all stakeholders within a period of thirty days

Link


PDF of the gazette notification: doc2023620214501.pdf


Electric cars and 2 wheelers are rated based on their power output. There are 3 slabs for the same. Ie, higher the power , higher the premium.

However for ICE vehicles, the engine capacity determines the premium. Again there are 3 slabs for the same. Ie, higher the cubic capacity higher the premium.

The rationale is that vehicles having higher power / displacement may travel at higher speeds. Since high speed/ over speeding is widely perceived as a major cause of accident, these vehicles have to pay higher premium.

However with advent of the smaller turbo engines(especially petrol), rating ICE vehicles solely on the basis of Displacement needs to be relooked by MoRTH/IRDAI

[kedar_GT]

Originally Posted by t_chat

I have the exact same confusion. What I am guessing (100% guess ) is, that the ISG will be used only for the low end torque boost in the new models. The Auto Start/Stop feature has been removed altogether from the MT variants.


.

If that is the case, then it is good --> and would be the reason for no price change as the battery is still in place.
Disabling auto start/stop would be a software feature and they are probably saving pennies by getting rid of the start/stop disable switch on the dash.

Hope they can 'enable' the disabling of this feature for the older models as well.

[wheelguy]

Given the number of price hikes within a year and the addition/removal of features within a few months from the launch, along with the lead times from booking to deliveries ranging from a few months to a year, buyers not only require price protection but also assurance on features. This applies to the whole industry.

[Gamemaztr]

Originally Posted by kedar_GT

And if they have removed ISG, why did they name the new variant as NEW BREZZA K15C ISG 5MT?

The Smart Hybrid System in newer MS Cars used two car batteries. One regular lead acid battery and the other Lithium Ion battery under the passenger seat. It seems that the Lithium Ion battery would only work during the torque assist while the Lead Acid battery would be used in remaining functions including Auto Start Stop. For reference, many cars with single battery set-up support Auto Start/Stop.

This deletion of Smart Hybrid system seems just to have removed the Lithium Ion battery. The ISG will stay and so will the Auto Start/Stop.

Just to note, I have been told that the ISG has replaced the alternators in our vehicles as alternators were highly unreliable and now almost all cars are equipped with an ISG. So, it is highly unlikely that ISG is removed.

MS will definitely save around 5-8% of the Vehicle cost by deleting the Lithium ion battery and all its supporting hardware, which they will happily pocket.