[outdoorlover]

Originally Posted by UD17

The Gen4 city engine was codename: Np1-Kai, SOHC
Gen5 is called AP2, DOHC

Two engines and many of their peripheral components are entirely different. But Honda should have marketed that in a proper way. Being the same displacement and I-vtec tag, gives a vibe that both are same engines.

Trying to understand the difference between the SOHC and DOHC arrangement on the same displacement engine tends to indicate some interesting points though a DOHC is considered a better and more evolved version compared to an SOHC:

a) that the low end power on a SOHC while the overall HP number on a DOHC is better and this is achieved at the higher end (higher engine revs).

b) fuel efficiency on a SOHC tends to be better than a DOHC

I am not sure how the real world FE compares between the two versions of the Honda engine in the City though.

[outdoorlover]

Originally Posted by GuChDa

Looks like you are confused between IVT and iMT.

IVT is Korean naming for otherwise a CVT. It's the iMT which doesn't have a clutch pedal but has a gear lever.

So in the comparison it's apples to apples between Elevate CVT and Seltos IVT.

Thanks GuCHDa, yes indeed! Thanks for clearing my doubts . I have not driven anything other than an automatic transmission for the past 22 years and hence, it doesnt come naturally to me. On another note, does anyone here have a feedback on how the iMT is to drive? Is it smooth or can it splutter to a stop if we don't downshift it at the right time?

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

Thanks GuCHDa, yes indeed! Thanks for clearing my doubts . I have not driven anything other than an automatic transmission for the past 22 years and hence, it doesnt come naturally to me. On another note, does anyone here have a feedback on how the iMT is to drive? Is it smooth or can it splutter to a stop if we don't downshift it at the right time?

I have driven the iMT in Sonet just out of curiosity with no intentions to buy. It's a diesel car.

Simply amazing i must say. Very smooth and I sometimes think why does Maruti don't give that as a solution. Much superior to AMT with full control and ease without a pedal. It has many other safety features too like hill hold and engine stall protection etc.. The only downside is you forget to change gears assuming it to be a fully automatic and that's something one would get used to eventually.

Its a fine option to proper automatic and better than AMT with manual like FE and better clutch life. However, performance wise it's a little slower to a proper automatic (TC or DCT)

[07CR]

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

. On another note, does anyone here have a feedback on how the iMT is to drive? Is it smooth or can it splutter to a stop if we don't downshift it at the right time?

I own a Sonet turbo petrol iMT.

Positives-
1) Pinky finger light gearshift
2) Car never stalls
3) Gives identical FE to a manual GB
4) Lower maintenance than a DCT/TC
5) Clutchless results in rest for left leg
6) Practically similar to a manual gearbox under 95% of driving conditions

Negatives-.
1) Gearshift is a little slow when repeatedly shifting about 4.5-5K rpm. Once or twice is cool, but going from 1st to 5th gear at such rpms rapidly the gearshift becomes a little slower.
2) If you have a automatic car at home too, you might forget to shift gears. I have a ecosport S TDCI too (manual), which doesn't cause any issues for me. But it might be different for folks having a iMT and Automatic at home.

[Yieldway17]

With so many pages of posts from so many members, one can say that no other car in recent times has attracted so much spectrum of opinions right from calling bankruptcy of Honda India to the car being dead on arrival to the car being not competitive to Seltos/Creta to the car being ultra reliable and safe and to it achieving different levels of successes as per the members. Time does answer everything eventually.

[Revvatron]

Originally Posted by Yieldway17

With so many pages of posts from so many members, one can say that no other car in recent times has attracted so much spectrum of opinions right from calling bankruptcy of Honda India to the car being dead on arrival to the car being not competitive to Seltos/Creta to the car being ultra reliable and safe and to it achieving different levels of successes as per the members. Time does answer everything eventually.

I think main reason is the time Honda is taking with price and variants wise feature reveals . With other brands we usually have some updates each month so discussion moves on without room for speculation. With the waiting game from Honda , by each passing day the speculation grows . Although I am enjoying all of it

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by UD17

It's is rumoured that the Turbo engine AP2-T is starting it's localisation journey soon. May be down the ine it will also find the place in city and elevate.

An amaze based SUV (compact may be) will also debut in 2024.

The only one that Google baba throws up for the AP2-T engine is for some parts for Honda Civic 1.5l turbo. So is it the 1.5l turbo? If so all forgiven for Honda India, and it also clears the path for more C, C+ segment models from Honda.

Originally Posted by Dead_Pedal

What engine is it? Is it the 1.0 turbo that powers the City in Thailand?

Hope it is not. We would rather be left with the good old 1.5l NA L15 engine. The Thailand 1.0 turbo is just a compliance engine derived from an old kei car engine. Not missing much in its absence, unless Honda India wants to enter sub 4m segment.

[ergon_9700]

Originally Posted by DicKy

The only one that Google baba throws up for the AP2-T engine is for some parts for Honda Civic 1.5l turbo. So is it the 1.5l turbo? If so all forgiven for Honda India, and it also clears the path for more C, C+ segment models from Honda.


Hope it is not. We would rather be left with the good old 1.5l NA L15 engine. The Thailand 1.0 turbo is just a compliance engine derived from an old kei car engine. Not missing much in its absence, unless Honda India wants to enter sub 4m segment.

For the AP2 engine for me in Google, it is throwing up the S2000.


The 1.0 turbo is also available in Europe I think powering the Civic. So it is not necessary a compliance engine but in Thailand due to their Eco Laws it is one. But for sub-4m this is quite good as it has healthy output (around 120hp and 175Nm of torque in Thailand City(almost at par with Hyundai 1.0 TGDI)).

[wheelguy]

Toyota is poking at Elevate

[outdoorlover]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

Toyota is poking at Elevate

Attachment 2483434

That brings us to an interesting point, though dependant on the pricing of the Elevate : isnt a Hyryder a better vehicle compared to the all petrol Elevate given that they are of the similar dimensions?

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

That brings us to an interesting point, though dependant on the pricing of the Elevate : isnt a Hyryder a better vehicle compared to the all petrol Elevate given that they are of the similar dimensions?

Better how? Hybrid powertrain? Yes but Elevate would be mostly priced at par with Hyryder’s NA variants and the NA engine is lame in G.Vitara/Hyryder compared to 1.5NA iVtec. Feature-wise(Panoramic sunroof) maybe slightly better, not sure.

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

That brings us to an interesting point, though dependant on the pricing of the Elevate : isnt a Hyryder a better vehicle compared to the all petrol Elevate given that they are of the similar dimensions?

I didn't like the space management in GV and Hyryder twins, especially the rear seat headroom.

[GuChDa]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Better how? Hybrid powertrain? Yes but Elevate would be mostly priced at par with Hyryder’s NA variants and the NA engine is lame in G.Vitara/Hyryder compared to 1.5NA iVtec. Feature-wise(Panoramic sunroof) maybe slightly better, not sure.

I am sure that Elevate in MT will perform better in every aspect than GV/Hyryder equivalent. But do remember that the other japanese has mild hybrid for torque assist to mask the limited power and is offering 20 ish while Elevate is 15 ish in FE department.

I suspect that people going for CVT in Elevate will be dissapointed. Even if the 0 to 100 is 13.5 sec when properly driven, with full load it will be painfully slower. I observed that 70 to 100 kmph took half of the 15 secs and that's where overtaking happen.

Hyryder sadly was designed by Maruti. Quality is maruti kind. Rear seat and Head room isn't that good and that curtain for sun roof is a pain. Hybrid is however too good for city with excellent mileage but that 3 pot is too noisy and goes out of breath at highways. Adding to this is the limited boot space in the hybrid.

Overall these all cars in NA versions seems to be city cars primarily which to me defeats the purpose looking at 20 lakh investment. Hybrid then becomes sensible at the simikar price point with excellent FE.

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by GuChDa

I suspect that people going for CVT in Elevate will be dissapointed. Even if the 0 to 100 is 13.5 sec when properly driven, with full load it will be painfully slower. I observed that 70 to 100 kmph took half of the 15 secs and that's where overtaking happen.

Like I said earlier. Let’s wait for credible sources to reveal 0-100 numbers rather than basing comments on that one off lame video.

As one reviewer(quoted below) who has actually driven it already mentioned, this is a well thought customer friendly car with great ride quality. I don’t expect it to be much slower than NA 1.5 competitors.

Originally Posted by Pratzgh1

This is a very well-thought Honda-customer-friendly car and one of the most, if not the most, comfortable ride quality in this segment.

Having said that I think this would be a decent upgrade for people like me graduating from a Jazz or any 1.2NA cars but not really for City owners. For them mostly a lateral movement.

[outdoorlover]

Originally Posted by wheelguy

I didn't like the space management in GV and Hyryder twins, especially the rear seat headroom.

I agree, the rear headroom is a problem, specially with the sunroof version.