[mk600]

In the light of a bit of Honda bashing on this thread, let me share my experience with both Honda and my next purchase decision making process.

Some background: I am Honda City customer for 13 years. Happy with the car (no rusting in 13 years thank god, quite good performance even after 76000 Kms, good mileage still in horrible Bangalore traffic, still makes a eye catching look-albeit a bit dated).

My requirement: In the market for a SUV since 2022 for a family of 4-5. Need Good road presence, Both safe, good mileage. Preferably a good resale value, but will keep it long term. Have driven quite a few of American, Korean, Japanese cars in the US.

My decision making:

Since Honda didn't offer me a upgrade path last year, had booked XUV700-Diesel and Hycross.

During that process, Didn't consider Creata, Alcazar, Seltos, primarily because of unknown safety builds of the Indian versions and plenty safety related reviews on TBHP/Youtube. Didn't consider the VW/Skoda Twins primarily because of poor road presence (read: height), and also fit-finish-reliability and surprising poor sales. Didn't consider Hyrider and Maruti Grand Vitara because of safety concerns on the build which seemed more Maruti and less Toyota. Didn't consider Jeep, because of very poor sales, and ownership reliability issues. Didn't consider MG Hectors, again unknown builds of Indian versions and Chinese ownership issues. Did try out Tata Harrier, but had concerns on Service and Diesel. Ultimately also cancelled my XUV700 booking for Diesel concerns and ownership reliability & Service Centre issues.

As Honda Elevate launches, it looks like that Elevate fits families like me in the cities. My need was a 4-5 seater SUV. I never wanted a 7 seater, but earlier had to stretch budget 1.5X to consider Toyota Hycross to get some long term reliability, safety and road presence.

Also Honda City Elevate being of sober conventional looks (my opinion) with also quite solid interiors (reminds me of Jeep Compass), this has a better chance of aging well, than the Toyota Hycross which I am still not sure is a MPV or a SUV. I would be cancelling my Hycross booking as well. Note: Honda Service Centre, I have had decent experience. No problems with the iVTech NA engine either, from personal experience.

Of course every decision making is personal. But I know of a couple of friends who are all Honda customers (Jazz, Amaze) -but not exactly Honda fanboys- who are in similar decision making journey.

[Dr.Procastinate]

Well, Honda does a typical 'play-it-safe' once again. The side profile of the Elevate looks more like a Nissan Magnite at first glance, not that I am complaining. It is a much cleaner design than rivals and does look more butch. As for the dearth of features, people considering Elevate would basically do it mostly for the Honda badge than the individual model itself. But Honda missed out on a few much needed options in the engine department. The 1.5 NA i-Vtec is a great specimen, but having a 1.5 turbo as an option would have swayed many more potential buyers.

[CCRider]

Originally Posted by AKSwamy

For all the new features and bling's that it does not offer, where Honda scores great for me is doing a brilliant job of what it offers. Take a look at the video below related to AEB feature in its ADAS suite. It does the best job of all the cars ranging from 20L to 2cr and that is the main reason to go for a Honda.

I have had cars from Tata, Honda, Mahindra and Skoda and Honda remains the best tested car of all the ones I have had. When they promise a feature they deliver the best of it!

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=6oIfLLxw4cU

Thanks for posting the video. I was also one of those folks who was waiting eagerly for the launch and was somewhat disappointed post the launch. But looking at this video the Elevate is back in contention - it shows the difference between providing a feature on paper vs actually providing a feature that is usable and reliable. The only potential issue for me is that I need a proper 5 seater, but I am not sure about the comfort levels of the rear seat middle passenger.

[AKSwamy]

That's true, no headrest and proper seat belt for middle passenger is a big miss, hope they can fix atleast the seat belt issue before launching, finger's crossed!

[Chrome6Boy]

To me, Honda has done just the bare minimum required to try and remain relevant. The car looks built to a very strict budget. I wonder how much they are investing compared to what the competition did when it comes to producing their respective cars in this segment.

In this segment -

Suzuki and Toyota have made the hybrid engine a reality for Indians by bringing in a good car, with great mileage at a kind of reasonable price.

VW and Skoda have brought cutting edge technology like their TSI and DSG at a kind of reasonable price.

Hyundai and Kia are absolutely killing it with their turbo and dct engines, cars loaded to the gill with features at a kind of reasonable price.

Honda has brought nothing new. I doubt they will price this reasonably for the car they are offering.

My prediction is that they will price it on par with the Creta and only a few Indians will succumb. Also they will not launch any new models contrary to their announcements and unfortunately go the Ford way.

Our family has owned 3 Honda Citys and kept each of these cars for more than 5 years. I have really enjoyed the Vtec engines and the slick manual shifters. However, when I bought the Cruze in 2011 and the Vento in 2016, I saw the advances in technology. I am not going to buy an iPhone 8 now just to say it is really reliable, makes calls just fine.

To the people who like the car and will buy it, I am genuinely happy for you and wish you many KMs of safe and fun drives.

[ashokabs]

Originally Posted by youknowitbetter

Hi - can someone explain the process that a car manufacturer goes through/follows when they launch a car in India? The reason I am asking is that Toyota and Honda have crazy variety of cars in each segment. To that extent, for launching a car in India, they don't necessarily have to start from a scratch (unlike Indian manufacturers or even VW), but still they shy away from launching their international products in India or even having multiple options on sale. Wanted to understand the logic. I can imagine the rigorous testing that would be required prior the launch due to India offering different terrains, weather etc., but is it so much so that they can't bring some of their international offerings in India at all!

PS: I am only looking to understand the nuances and am not passing comments on any car manufacturer about their practices. Thanks

The primary problem in India for cars designed for manufacture in Developed Countries is cost. If they keep the same specs the cost will not be competitive. This is partly thanks to higher taxation and also to higher cost of imported components for newer cars.

[prathapwagle]

Keeping all fancy features provided by competition aside, one of the major USP is ADAS 2 which includes critical safety feature like CMBS (Collision Mitigation Braking System), Hope more manufacturers prioritize this and include in most variants as this system could be life saver for pedestrians, cyclists etc.
On other side, a main bummer is its mostly a 4-seater because there is a major miss pertaining to safety which is three-point seat belt and an adjustable headrest for middle passenger in second row. Least they could have done is provide at least a fixed headrest like Honda city.

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by Chrome6Boy

To me, Honda has done just the bare minimum required to try and remain relevant. The car looks built to a very strict budget. I wonder how much they are investing compared to what the competition did when it comes to producing their respective cars in this segment.

In this segment -

Suzuki and Toyota have made the hybrid engine a reality for Indians by bringing in a good car, with great mileage at a kind of reasonable price.

VW and Skoda have brought cutting edge technology like their TSI and DSG at a kind of reasonable price.

Hyundai and Kia are absolutely killing it with their turbo and dct engines, cars loaded to the gill with features at a kind of reasonable price.

Honda has brought nothing new. I doubt they will price this reasonably for the car they are offering.

My prediction is that they will price it on par with the Creta and only a few Indians will succumb. Also they will not launch any new models contrary to their announcements and unfortunately go the Ford way.

Our family has owned 3 Honda Citys and kept each of these cars for more than 5 years. I have really enjoyed the Vtec engines and the slick manual shifters. However, when I bought the Cruze in 2011 and the Vento in 2016, I saw the advances in technology. I am not going to buy an iPhone 8 now just to say it is really reliable, makes calls just fine.

To the people who like the car and will buy it, I am genuinely happy for you and wish you many KMs of safe and fun drives.

Mere fact that Honda has not changed the name of the engine since last 30 years, does not mean that the technology has not changed. Similarly, mere fact that there is a new trend for TSI engines, does not mean that it is cutting edge and bringing miraculous engine which was never existing before. In fact, turbo engines have been around since long (TATA DiCOR engines or Fiat Multijet engines). Yes, like IVTECH, turbo engines have also evolved. But to say that it is better than NA engines is incomplete analysis of relevant factors, both in terms of energy dynamics and consumer preference. The IVTECH technology is changing every day. Ask a 40 to 50 years aged mechanic and he will tell you the story.

The iPhone analogy you made is of no consequence and contains incorrect assumptions.

We need to understand that TSI is bringing higher power in lower capacity engines at a cost. It is like teenage (1.0 ltr) on drugs (turbocharger) - reliability is lost, complexity increases, and power delivery increases (but can be matched with a more mature and tuned higher capacity NA engine).
I would have been convinced by anyone who claimed the TSI engine is "cutting edge" due to its efficiency, smoothness, and low maintenance. But this is not the case. TSI is in fact an inefficient engine (when compared to NA engines).

The question that needs to be answered for Honda customer is - why should I be hesitant to use a well-tuned 1.5 NA engine and go for lesser capacity, inefficient 1.0 TSI? – If answer is the difference in dimensions of engine delivering same power – I think we need to understand the dynamics of engines better.

What I am trying to say that both engines have its place in the requirements of customer. If someone is looking for a family car for a long term use, NA engines are way to go. If you want to enjoy the drag TSI is the answer - use it, sell it after 3 to 5 years and go on for new. Mere fact that you are getting a turbo kick does not wash away the fact that kick has a cost associated with it. And that cost can be avoided by a bigger and much smoother NA engines. Engines are not just physics, it is also economics, and that is why it is an engineering.

Now Honda has always been an family/office goers car. It is not here to be on the racecourse. None of the other companies too, but then some consumers prefer Turbo charged engines as they get kick with the turbo kick. It is a personal choice, but my objection is that you cannot trivialize the IVTECH. IVTECH and turbos have different purpose are different engines and serve in their domain with the different expectations of consumers. A Honda loyalist has a different set of preferences. He would go for it for the purposes he needs a car for.

IVTECH is still relevant and many patents are regularly filed on this technology, not just by Honda, but other OEMs also. I think users need to see the contradiction in their views. When we say that IVTECH has not changed, we also mean that IVTECH is a visionary technology and is still relevant today – what a miracle that would be for a technology to keep competing with other technologies after 3 decades!!

[pravint]

I still don't understand how most people here are praising Koreans with literally 2 star safety rating, for features like panoramic sunroof, electric seats etc.
Honda is good at making no nonsense machines and I believe they have one with the elevate.
Also lot of the people complaining here about 220 mm ground clearance, Honda would have tested body dynamics extensively and such things can not be complained just looking at mere numbers. Lot of simulations/tests are carried out while deciding such parameters.

[Chrome6Boy]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Now Honda has always been an family/office goers car. It is not here to be on the racecourse. None of the other companies too, but then some consumers prefer Turbo charged engines as they get kick with the turbo kick. It is a personal choice, but my objection is that you cannot trivialize the IVTECH. IVTECH and turbos have different purpose are different engines and serve in their domain with the different expectations of consumers. A Honda loyalist has a different set of preferences. He would go for it for the purposes he needs a car for.

IVTECH is still relevant and many patents are regularly filed on this technology, not just by Honda, but other OEMs also. I think users need to see the contradiction in their views. When we say that IVTECH has not changed, we also mean that IVTECH is a visionary technology and is still relevant today – what a miracle that would be for a technology to keep competing with other technologies after 3 decades!!

I agree with you about personal choice. People can certainly choose NA engines over turbos and hybrids, someone even pointed out that many of the cars sold in this segment are NA engines. I think the primary reason for this is because of the lower cost and not because of reliability.

However if you see the trend especially in the developed world NA engines are on the wane. This obviously doesn't mean there is no place for them but why do you think they are trending downwards?

Car manufacturers would certainly try to keep costs down by not offering a turbo or a hybrid option like Honda is doing with the Elevate, why do they bother with the additional investments and new offerings?

I agree that I may have assumed many things wrongly about this engine. In what way do you think Vtec technology is competitive after 3 decades? I don't think they can compete with electrics, hybrids, turbos or superchargers in any metric. They may be mediocre at everything but that isn't really competitive.

Of course time will tell if this car will be successful, they have increased their capacity to accomodate an additional 3,000 cars a month. I hope this car sells and proves me wrong.

[Highflyer]

Originally Posted by pravint

I still don't understand how most people here are praising Koreans with literally 2 star safety rating, for features like panoramic sunroof, electric seats etc.
Honda is good at making no nonsense machines and I believe they have one with the elevate.
Also lot of the people complaining here about 220 mm ground clearance, Honda would have tested body dynamics extensively and such things can not be complained just looking at mere numbers. Lot of simulations/tests are carried out while deciding such parameters.

Panoramic sunroof is one of the most overrated and least understood feature for Indian conditions.
Number of times it can be used considering our weather and environmental conditions makes it like an ornament that can’t be worn.
In our conditions we end up trying to cover our windows and the glass area too to stay comfortable while these companies are making a killing by selling us a feature we don’t have any use for.
Cooled, heated or ventilated seats is a much better and useful feature that I would prefer over sunroof.
Companies should also give an option to buy a car of one’s choice of trim with features one can choose to add or omit.

[RaghuVis]

I see many here telling that this is a perfect upgrade for Honda City/Jazz customers.

I agree on the Jazz part, but how many people really bought Jazz in the first place considering it was a super flop? (Nice Car I should say)

However, I hope all the Honda City guys converting to Honda Elevate realize that how much ever you want to convince everyone else, what you are doing essentially is just a lateral upgrade and not a real upgrade. My intention is not to offend anyone so please don't come with your angry face at me!

I really hope non-Honda loyalists pick up Elevate as without them, Honda is not going to survive in India in the long run.

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

However, I hope all the Honda City guys converting to Honda Elevate realize that how much ever you want to convince everyone else, what you are doing essentially is just a lateral upgrade and not a real upgrade. My intention is not to offend anyone so please don't come with your angry face at me!

I hope you realize that your statement is postulation that the Honda engines have not changed and every new car has to be is a vertical upgrade, both of which are unsupported conjunctures. Lesser mortals like us keep going on flat curves with the best options to choose from. In any case, the way inflation is on the rise, even lateral upgrades are vertical upgrades for us.

By the way, I wish you all the luck for your "real upgrade".

[TG208011]

This is a very minute and insignificant detail but still is an interesting hint that the Honda Elevate was supposed to be launched a lot sooner. In one of the promotional images of the interiors, the phone kept in the centre console has the wallpaper which came with iPhone 12 series, hinting that these images were shot atleast 2 years earlier.

It’s either this or maybe it was an oversight and no one cared enough to use the latest model for their official illustrations.

[DCEite]

I had expressed interest in Honda Elevate filling a form on their official website.

Then a central call center number called me asking for the nearest dealership.

The dealership lady called and she was like "Yes sir how can I help you with Honda Elevate". I said I need more details like when its going to be launched and what are the prices and if I can have a test drive.

She replied "Sir, vehicle will launch in September, other than that we don't know anything at all".

Well, I was bemused. Why do they have a callback feature at all in the website if the dealership doesn't even know the correct date of launch, let alone any other details of the vehicle?