[yedukrishnan199]

Originally Posted by bijims

Now coming to the Elevate, Honda is quite late to the party and the car doesn't seem to be the most feature rich or does it come with the most exciting engine either, however the 1.5 N.A i-VTEC is a tried and tested engine and if Honda prices this one right, it may find a few homes, else if the pricing is at par with the Korean twins, then the car is DOA, and wont probably sell much once the initial hype dies down.

Now, to the question of whether to book the Honda Elevate, if you are looking for a high ground clearance, cross-over City, then you can go for it without a doubt. It would be a reliable car with most necessities. Else, if you are looking for performance or mileage or features, the competition has much more to offer.

Originally Posted by bijims

You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, when there are established players with their own strengths like price, features etc., when Honda brings such a car which is not as equipped as theirs in any department, be it engine, comfort-features etc., it isn't a recipe for success, the only way Honda can achieve decent sales on this car is if it is priced right, otherwise if it is priced at a premium to its competitors for the Honda badge and reliability, it is DOA. Moreover, this car feels like a car from 2017 in 2023, it has hardly anything different. It's basically a high GC crossover City, and if customers find value in that, maybe it might sell.

When a market is as saturated as the SUV segment in India, you have to either be a niche product, but that won't give you numbers which Honda desperately needs, or you should offer Value, this remains to be seen or you should differentiate yourself from the competition.

So you either have to be innovative, or make the customers want the product, like how Seltos and Creta did, or you can be how Honda were with its WR-V and repeat your own mistakes.

But I sincerely hope, Honda does well, as competition is always better for consumers and a Honda priced right will bring more competition which is always better for the consumers.

I completely agree with @bijims views here and see no reason to support @pgsagars'arguements, @bijims has put an overall view of every consumer who is looking for an SUV in this segment, and that is exactly how the market works, there is absolutely nothing worth reiterating in@pgsagar's post when everything worthy was already mentioned by @bijims.

A first mover advantage is always there and late to the party is a real thing, and market saturation affects the chances of profitability of in competitive products, so there is absolutely no sense in saying that there is nothing as late to the party.

Moreover, I for one own a Kia and feel it has read customer minds' exactly and that is why it is a success, they created an image with the Seltos and that has trickled down to its other offerings like Sonet and Carens, and there is no denying the fact that Kia/Hyundai makes cars how the customer wants them, gives them options to choose from and their cars are feature rich, this brings them volumes in the SUV space and together Hyundai-Kia will dominate the segment unless something really competitive comes through. The Creta is still the best-selling SUV, and the Seltos will follow suit soon once the facelift launches, Hyundai-Kia know how to gain customers, constantly updating their portfolio with new launches and updates, how else would you describe a company like Kia who is hardly 4 years in the market, being top 4/ top 5 bestselling car brand in entire India.

Honda had a chance here with the Elevate and they have almost blown it up, I don't think the pricing will undercut the City anway, most probably it will at least a 30-50k premium over comparable versions of the City, and that itself isn't great value considering the feature list and the price City sells for.

To put into perspective, the City sells for 11.5 lakhs to 16 lakhs ex-showroom, an almost top of the line HTX CVT variant of the Seltos sells for just 15.9 lakhs ex-showroom and dare I say, it feels better equipped than the Elevate for such money, even with an impending facelift, moreover the base-spec Seltos costs just 10.89 lakhs which undercuts the City too, so however Honda prices it, the only way they can win over the market is at least pricing it comparable to the Koreans, and even if they do that, it would still have to be less than what the City sells for.

So basically, I don't find much reason for anyone but Honda loyalists, and people who want a crossover City to wait for the Elevate, when the market has grown much more with more exciting launches and better value cars already in the market.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by yedukrishnan199

there is no denying the fact that Kia/Hyundai makes cars how the customer wants them, gives them options to choose from and their cars are feature rich, this brings them volumes in the SUV space and together Hyundai-Kia will dominate the segment unless something really competitive comes through. .

The above statements are absolutely correct.

No wonder Hyundai is so rapidly rappelling up and climbing the market share mountain stronghold that Maruti has created. And no wonder that Kia too is scaling the same mountain stronghold.

None of the other manufacturers seem to have understood what ticks all the boxes for the Great Indian Mass market.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by mayjay

7. No paint on the underside of bonnet (seriously?)

Ref. #7 is actually unbelievable. I wouldn't have believed that without the picture posted in the review by Aditya / CrazyDriver. Wunder how many liters of paint Honda would save in production, even if the car turns out to be a Pathan or Ponniyin Selvan 2

Whether it is a TBHPian, enthusiast or just a layman, the Indian car buyer has one thing in common: an eye for VFM. Honda should have provided at least just one coat of paint and by not doing so it demotes the Elevate to a point that potential buyers will sense the cost cutting angle and put the car under microscope.

[evilminstrel]

I have been following this thread so thought of putting my two cents.

The days of discussing the mechanics, dynamics, reliability, power delivery, and safety of cars are long gone. Accordingly, the definition of a car enthusiast has also changed. Indian consumers need smartphones, not good cars.
Honda is relatively unenergetic in the Indian market, but the idea that it will shut down operations because Honda is not Hyundai/Kia/Suzuki/MG (the mass pleasures) is absurd and implausible. How a media launch gave that impression to some of us is beyond comprehension.

The fact remains that despite being late and only few models up their sleeves; it continues to sell 5000 cars every month in India. Honda cars in the market today - Amaze, City are 4 to 5 rated by NCAP for their safety. With Honda Elevate, there is no doubt safety is not compromised, but the discussion is why Honda is not upto Mass Pleasures. I think Honda is, and with right pricing, it will be beyond.

Let us see what is happening today in Indian market.
Mass Pleasures with their confuse and rule philosophy have multiple models, each confusing one from another. Just like the periodic table, it conjures up numerous atoms with comparable features and varying dimensions. Not content with confusing their customers already, theatrical features like a panoramic sunroof, which is unsuitable for Indian conditions are included in cars. I mean who uses sunroof in India, that too a panoramic one? I have a Honda and I never felt the need for ventilated seats - With good AC one doesn't need ventilated seats!

Now the Indian consumer is busy discussing the panoramic sunroofs, ventilated seats etc and has forgotten the meat. Instead of spending in a reliable car that comes with good/reliable essential features like air conditioning, comfortable seats and safety, Indians are looking for unnecessary gimmicks. as I said, they are looking for smartphones, not good car.

I think this thread is completely missing the point. What if Honda is giving you a good SUV at reasonable price, with good dynamics, room, engine, reliability and cutting on gimmicks. Would you go for a safer, reliable car, with low maintenance or do you want a car loaded with features and no match for essentials and driving dynamics? I know it may be a personal choice, but then we should not complain about the loss of good brands and technology from India.

I think we need to wait for the launch and pricing, few test drives and then we can actually see how good the car is. On the face of it, and going by the quality and reliability of Honda, it seems to be a good car for Indian markets. Let us keep an open mind (at least), wait, and watch (if not buy).

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

Honda is relatively unenergetic in the Indian market, but the idea that it will shut down operations because Honda is not Hyundai/Kia/Suzuki/MG (the mass pleasures) is absurd and implausible. How a media launch gave that impression to some of us is beyond comprehension.

According to Honda, they plan to launch 5 SUVs by 2030. Currently they have nothing to sell really, have a look.



It is possible for Honda to go from here to 5 SUVs by that time, look at Kia, they arrived with 1 car and took away Honda`s lunch box entirely. KIA did 600,000 vehicles as of last year, despite pandemic and that it arrived only in 2019. Honda City celebrated 25 years in India last year I think, it`s only natural to feel that Honda has completely lost it.

Is this vehicle enough to Elevate Honda back from wherever its resting?

[riteshritesh]

Another perspective from me preferring the Elevate over the Seltos. This Purchase being a replacement for my Wife's Glanza as that has to be passed on, we started off last September with the Hyryder Hybrid booking. With no allotment for the Strong Hybrid Blue G variant ( or the GV for last 3 months) alongwith figuring out that a strong hybrid and the 5 kms of daily travel that she does doesn't justify the costs, cancelled both and pre-booked the Elevate.
Upon reading a few pages back that the Seltos too has the IVT and is very similar to the Honda CVT, suggested Seltos to the Mrs who downright rejected the Seltos for being old and common.
So back to the Elevate for us unless it crosses 25 Lakhs on road for the Top minus 1 version.

[pannags]

Originally Posted by evilminstrel

I think this thread is completely missing the point. What if Honda is giving you a good SUV at reasonable price, with good dynamics, room, engine, reliability and cutting on gimmicks. Would you go for a safer, reliable car, with low maintenance or do you want a car loaded with features and no match for essentials and driving dynamics?

Impressive analysis! Your argument highlights the very aspects that have cemented Honda's reputation as a trusted brand.

Now, in any product space, including the automotive industry, it is natural to witness an evolution of functions and features over time. Taking the examples of what has been heavily debated here - the comfort of cooled seats or the convenience of a 360-degree camera, often shape our preferences and expectations. While these features may not be essential deal breakers, they do enhance the overall driving experience. On the other hand, things like the missing headrest in the rear bench or the accompanying decades old seat belt design only lead to disapproval. Therefore, striking a good balance between innovation and legacy is crucial for Honda to not only keep pace with the competition but also to ensure continued sustainability of its success (& existence).

Lastly, while a considerable buyer community appreciates the fundamentals - practicality, reliability, and maintainability - these factors alone may not (and cannot, anymore) warrant a premium price tag. Otherwise, Honda runs the risk of alienating a considerable portion of its potential customer base.

[AKSwamy]

For all the new features and bling's that it does not offer, where Honda scores great for me is doing a brilliant job of what it offers. Take a look at the video below related to AEB feature in its ADAS suite. It does the best job of all the cars ranging from 20L to 2cr and that is the main reason to go for a Honda.

I have had cars from Tata, Honda, Mahindra and Skoda and Honda remains the best tested car of all the ones I have had. When they promise a feature they deliver the best of it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oIfLLxw4cU

[VRSriram]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

According to Honda, they plan to launch 5 SUVs by 2030. Currently they have nothing to sell really, have a look.

Attachment 2462964

It is possible for Honda to go from here to 5 SUVs by that time, look at Kia, they arrived with 1 car and took away Honda`s lunch box entirely. KIA did 600,000 vehicles as of last year, despite pandemic and that it arrived only in 2019. Honda City celebrated 25 years in India last year I think, it`s only natural to feel that Honda has completely lost it.

Is this vehicle enough to Elevate Honda back from wherever its resting?

Any company which is committed towards a market will ensure that their product portfolio is always spread across, which is not the case with Honda. They have only 2 cars City and Amaze and both are refurbished. Honda had an opportunity but they missed it again in the case of Elevate which does not offer any thing standout except ground clearance and no new drivetrain or engine options. They even sell Civic turbo RS in Pakistan but not here. Such is their commitment to India. Not finding fault with VTEC which is brilliant engine but market has moved whereas Honda is selling same old products... They first missed the diesel and when they launched diesel, market was moving towards petrol. This example itself speaks enough about their lack of vision and strategy. Now they have not launched Hybrid Elevate and going to electric directly - what changed between City hybrid launch and now so as not to offer Hybrid? Might be game over for Honda.

[aravind.anand]

Originally Posted by riteshritesh

So back to the Elevate for us unless it crosses 25 Lakhs on road for the Top minus 1 version.

25 Lakhs??? Don't give Honda any ideas to go for this premium pricing.

Considering the small sun-roof, the not-so-premium interior plastics, the age-old iVtec which is common with the City, no hybrid or turbo variants, the lack of cooled seats and many such premium features which the competition already offer, I would put this at the less than 20 lakh bracket.

[SoumenD]

Suddenly this looks like a Kia/Hyundai vs Honda thread. Relax folks, at least let them come out with the pricing before beating this to death.

I hope Honda sponsors a GNCAP test before release and get a good score(4/5* with stable bodyshell). That would act as a solid USP against the Koreans, as feature-wise they cant compete obviously.

Originally Posted by riteshritesh

So back to the Elevate for us unless it crosses 25 Lakhs on road for the Top minus 1 version.

Are you serious?

25L for this in current avatar would be way too overpriced for most am sure. That's what I would probably pay for the top end hybrid if at all it came. City hybrid top end costs around that in Bangalore currently. In current avatar a 30-50k premium max over City is what would be acceptable IMO. Anything more and it can prove suicidal for this offering. So top end in current avatar should be <17L keeping OTRs around 20L in Bangalore at best.

[GoBabyGo]

Hi, I think when Elevate is launched, Honda's monthly sales chart would be like

Amaze - around 2800 to 3000
Elevate - around 3800 to 4000
City - around 1800 to 2000

I don't think Honda will be able to launch Elevate for less than 11.99 lacs (realistically 12.25 lacs for SV model, if they launch it) or if V model is the base one then it could be 12.99 or 13.25 lacs ex-showroom Delhi.

If we take City as benchmark of features, then lower models of Elevate will be more equipped than competition.

Honda's 1.5L NA engine is outstanding for lighter cars like City. I think it will not be so good and fuel efficient in heavy SUV like Elevate (unless Honda keep kerb weight of Elevate close to City). Beside with such high GC, it may not have good handling & stability and could be as good or bad as Fortuner, ride wise.

Time & its pricing will tell where Elevate go, but as of now I feel people will forget about Elevate by the time they start delivering it (around October 2023).

[riteshritesh]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Are you serious?
25L for this in current avatar would be way too overpriced for most am sure.

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

25 Lakhs??? Don't give Honda any ideas to go for this premium pricing.

Sorry,what I meant was the Elevate Pricing to be at par with that of the City. I assumed the regular City to cost around 21-22 OTR Mumbai and the City Hybrid to be 25 OTR Mumbai, hence something in between will be my maximum threshold.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

I hope Honda sponsors a GNCAP test before release and get a good score(4/5* with stable bodyshell). That would act as a solid USP against the Koreans, as feature-wise they cant compete obviously.

It is quite an investment, though, and Honda have been quite stingy about that in India. But it is Honda's best shot as positioning the Elevate as a safe, family-oriented yet sensible (reliability+service) alternative in its segment. Only chink in its armour is the rear lap belt. Three stars for child protection would put it quite far behind the Taigun and Kushaq. Hope a three-point "make-your-own-seatbelt" like the Hyryder/Alcazar/Hector makes it to the production Elevate.

[evilminstrel]

Originally Posted by AKSwamy

For all the new features and bling's that it does not offer, where Honda scores great for me is doing a brilliant job of what it offers. Take a look at the video below related to AEB feature in its ADAS suite. It does the best job of all the cars ranging from 20L to 2cr and that is the main reason to go for a Honda.

I have had cars from Tata, Honda, Mahindra and Skoda and Honda remains the best tested car of all the ones I have had. When they promise a feature they deliver the best of it!

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=6oIfLLxw4cU

Brilliant! This is testimony of how serious Honda is about their safety. In days of expressways and highways, this is the most important consideration. With so much features in car these days, there are high chances that driver might feel at home rather than on the car seat. I have seen people thanking the lords that they bought a safe car after serious accidents. No one thanked ventilated seats, which made them asleep at first place.