[sunnsood]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Er..What is there to test?

I would say a lot especially when they are just entering the segment and are committing to 5 new SUVs over the next 6-7 years(translating to a new car every year). Customer behaviour is changing a lot and at a very fast pace. Features can always be added and Honda/ Toyota are never known to plan this game anyways.

Also I think every manufacturer is learning from Tata who are continuously updating their cars every year (if not every 6 months). If Honda Elevate can follow a similar pattern, it's version 1.3 or 1.4 will be near perfect with hybrid and electric power trains.

[jinojohnt]

Originally Posted by volkman10

- Here are the dimensions of the Honda Elevate. It is 4.3m long, has a 5.2m turning radius and 220mm ground clearance! Honda really making sure it checks all those SUV boxes.

Innova Hycross, with 2850 mm wheelbase has a turning radius of 5.4m, while the Honda Elevate with 2650 mm wheelbase has a turning radius of 5.2 m.
Is the Elevate going to need almost as much space as the Hycross to take a U-turn?

[venus1975]

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

Innova Hycross, with 2850 mm wheelbase has a turning radius of 5.4m, while the Honda Elevate with 2650 mm wheelbase has a turning radius of 5.2 m.
Is the Elevate going to need almost as much space as the Hycross to take a U-turn?

Honda Elevate will likely require 200 mm less space to make a U-turn.

[iamgyan]

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

Is the Elevate going to need almost as much space as the Hycross to take a U-turn?

Wait till you find out about the Jimny specs on this front

On the other hand, Elevate's turning radius is 0.1m smaller than the City while having a 50mm longer wheelbase.
Basically wheelbase is not the only factor affecting turning radius.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

Innova Hycross, with 2850 mm wheelbase has a turning radius of 5.4m, while the Honda Elevate with 2650 mm wheelbase has a turning radius of 5.2 m.
Is the Elevate going to need almost as much space as the Hycross to take a U-turn?

Toyota has this thing where the wheels turn out quite a bit at full lock. I had noticed it in the landcruiser and dismissed it as an off-road vehicle quirk needed for tight turns in trails. But the Thar didn’t have it. I felt the Thar’s wheels didn’t turn much at full lock and the turning radius was very high despite being a small vehicle.

Similarly, I notice the Hycross wheels also turn more than my i20 at full lock. It is very manoeuvrable despite its size and you can take u-turns in one go despite the size.

I’m not sure if this is some proprietary Toyota steering rack feature so it’s probably better to compare to other cars in the same segment.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

...NA engine with CVT(IVT in hyundai terms) is looked upon as the safest bet and hence majority go for this variant.

...Now when it comes to NA engines, I don't think anybody has a better engine than Honda's 1.5 iVtec currently in our market...

It's a long-standing perception that needs revisiting.

Apples to apples comparison between a City CVT & Verna IVT, there's barely anything to separate the two powertrains in real-life usage terms now.

The Hyundai 1.5 NA is refined, has decent pep where it matters, and the IVT is noticeably less rubber-bandy than Honda's CVT. I only got a short spin at the Verna media drive but was impressed with what little I saw.

The iVTEC is free-revving, punchy in the mid-range and has a meatier top-end, but top-end matters very little day-to-day because nobody is revving the nuts off their City as a daily use-case, and neither car is the sort one would want to go high-speed corner carving in.

Between the Verna, Creta and the sister Seltos, Hyundai will be selling a truckload of the 1.5 NA IVT combo; it's a perfectly good powertrain for most people who wouldn't touch a slick-shifting but ticking-time-bomb DCT and are 'meh' on 10-second 0-100 sprints.

[skarthiksr]

On the turning radius, here is the information I collected on the cars in this segment:

Creta and Seltos - 5.3 (Forum review)
MG Astor - 5.6 (Manual)
Grand Vitara and Urban Cruiser Hyryder - 5.4 (Brochure)
Nissan Kicks - 5.2 (Discontinued Brochure)
Taigun - 5.05 (Brochure)
Kushaq - Unspecified
Elevate - 5.2

So, in comparison, Elevate's turning radius seems to be on the lesser side.

[jinojohnt]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

Toyota has this thing where the wheels turn out quite a bit at full lock. I had noticed it in the landcruiser and dismissed it as an off-road vehicle quirk needed for tight turns in trails. But the Thar didn’t have it. I felt the Thar’s wheels didn’t turn much at full lock and the turning radius was very high despite being a small vehicle.

Similarly, I notice the Hycross wheels also turn more than my i20 at full lock. It is very manoeuvrable despite its size and you can take u-turns in one go despite the size.

I’m not sure if this is some proprietary Toyota steering rack feature so it’s probably better to compare to other cars in the same segment.

One reason could be that in a RWD set up (since the front wheels are pushed by the rear wheels), the cornering force could be too much to handle if you turn the front wheels too much, resulting in tendency for the front wheels to 'fall down' on the side. So this could be a design limitation. E.g., the rear wheel drive Crysta has the same turning radius as the FWD Hycross even though the Crysta has a shorter wheel base.

Second reason could be that if the axle/suspension set up is wide/thick, there is a limit to which the wheels can turn without touching the suspension.

Third reason could be that the suspension needs to be very strong to withstand cornering forces in a high speed turn, especially when the wheels turn too much. So it may be easier to design wheels that do not turn much for cost cutting.

In any case, I like cars with small turning radius, for ease of U-turns in busy streets. Even in 4 lane divided city roads, it is difficult to take U-turn when you see a gap in the median, if the turning radius is above 5 meters - especially if you are driving close to the median (that's what you do for a U-turn right?). May be I am asking for too much, but that is what I expect for cars that are designed for both city and highway usage.

[YashD]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Do we have a breakup of Creta/Seltos engine variant wise sales? In my circle most of the people I see have bought the NA IVT version. Their reason is the same : DCT & Turbo reliability doubts. NA engine with CVT(IVT in hyundai terms) is looked upon as the safest bet and hence majority go for this variant.

Now when it comes to NA engines, I don't think anybody has a better engine than Honda's 1.5 iVtec currently in our market. Honda probably is eyeing such customers. But yeah, missing panoramic sunroof is a big miss in our market(personally couldn't care less). That's a huge draw for our public

I am using both the Seltos NA IVT and a City 5th gen CVT.
It literally feels like you're driving the same car.
Mash the throttle and both have similar rubber band response albeit the Seltos being slightly better in the low end whereas City has a punchier mid range.
You would not want to take both these cars over high rpms as it's useless.
The gear shifts too are identical in most of the circumstances and both the vehicles responses similarly as per your inputs. Infact even the efficiency of both the engine is same, I am getting an average of 10 - 11 kmpl in city and 15 kmpl on the highways in both the vehicles.
At the least in Automatics now, I don't feel Honda has the edge anymore. The Koreans have come a long way ahead whereas the Japanese giant has just moved backward. The 5th generation City could have been a much nicer product with so much more finesse, Honda has legit lost the plot.
The Elevate too seems like a lost cause. It's just going to be another SUV among others with nothing unique on offer being the part of the herd.

[vij]

Originally Posted by YashD

I am using both the Seltos NA IVT and a City 5th gen CVT.

Which do you prefer at low speeds (20-40 kmph) and bumper to bumper traffic? Would you say both are equal to you in those aspects?

[Hayek]

Caught up late with this thread.

Don’t like the grill - it is too large and has too much chrome in some variants. Don’t think it makes it butch or makes the vehicle standout (like the Lexus and new BMW grills do), almost looks like something from an old truck. The rear looks like it’s lifted from the Sonet or the Taigun - viz not great either.

Interiors look good except for the manual transmission lever which is inferior to that in my old 2004 City GXi.

But do agree that Honda has a steady base of loyalists in India, and it makes immense sense to produce an inoffensive SUV at low cost for those who want to upgrade to an SUV from the City. And that is exactly what Honda has done. This is not going to wipe out the Creta. But that is not Honda’s aim here.

Unlike many, am not surprised by Honda’s powertrain strategy - hybrids are a stupid overly complex system which made sense in 2010 but make no sense today. And it also makes no sense to spend on adapting their turbo petrols to run on Indian fuel. If they electrify their range in 3 years, while Maruti and Toyota keep beating the hybrid drum, they would (like Tata) have a chance to leapfrog their rivals for the next 20 years.

Even the EVs of today are far superior to ICE cars for 90% of what most people do with their cars. In the last 200,000 kms we have driven with our cars (the Superb, Vento, X3 and Tiguan), there is only 4 Goa trips, one trip to South India and a trip to Ajanta - Ellora which we could not have done with an EV - viz about 5% of the total driving we have done. One ICE car is clearly more than enough for any two car family - I would bet that by 2030, 30% of all cars (and a higher percentage of C/D segment cars) will be EVs.

Great news for Honda loyalists.

[2000rpm]

Absolutely disappointing vehicle.

This is not something a Honda City owner will upgrade to!! (which is what a lot of reviewers are suggesting)

Will classify this in the same bucket as BRV, Amaze (not from a looks perspective), reasons below

• A car launched too late in its segment
• A car much behind times (no ventilated seats, no panoramic sunroof. Seriosly!!)
• A inferior car with nothing unique, but will command price equal to competition (smugness called being "Honda")

The only customer who would buy this car is a customer who was planning to buy the Honda City, but finds this more rugged and practical in India.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Unlike many, am not surprised by Honda’s powertrain strategy - hybrids are a stupid overly complex system which made sense in 2010 but make no sense today. And it also makes no sense to spend on adapting their turbo petrols to run on Indian fuel. If they electrify their range in 3 years, while Maruti and Toyota keep beating the hybrid drum, they would (like Tata) have a chance to leapfrog their rivals for the next 20 years.

Any reason Honda turbo petrols cant run on Indian fuel? We have imported BMWs, Mercs, even Porsche and Lambos plying on the roads with Indian fuel. But somehow this fuel is not suitable for Honda? I think its just a lame excuse from Honda management.

From being an aspirational brand for the middle class in 2000, to an "also-ran" today, feel sad for the state of Honda India.

[AKSwamy]

My take on the Honda Elevate saga so far,

1. Not bringing in Hybrid is a big miss off-course but to counter that if you get the best NA engine on offer in market and at 4L less if they had brought the hybrid, I am sure there is a vast majority who would go for it

2. Many people are missing the fact that Honda is bringing ADAS for this one, it surely adds a lot of value for people thinking about the safety, current vehicles it is competing with does not have it yet except Astor

3. Some of the interiors are not up to the mark, like AC vents, knobs, no illumination for power window buttons, no electric hand brakes or powered seat adjustment, it has never been Honda's priority and I do not think it will ever be but can you live without it, I can and you get the best seat comfort and pretty good interior coloring scheme so forgive them for that

4. In terms of design, we are used to over designed cars with cuts and creases everywhere. I applaud Honda for sticking to simplistic and boxy design. Take it anyday over ridiculous hyundai, over the top Kia and non existing MG's

And I am sure there will be a lot of fence sitters who will be moved in favor once it is available for a ride.

Now to Honda to price it correctly! ( I have pre-booked already! )

[jaysonline]

Honda should bring some CKD, CBU cars to India to keep the hype up like what Skoda does. At least they will get some blessings from enthusiasts.
I would say Elevate is just a mediocre product made for Indian consumers like Amaze. But due to the good ground clearance and time tested engine-transmission combo, it will still sell decent numbers.