[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by 1LR-GUE

Great article, as always. I have a question suhaas307. Did you happen to notice the brand and load rating of all the three cars tyres you were driving? Thanks.

Thank you.

Brand and Load rating of the tyres on the cars below:

Kodiaq: MRF Markus in 235/55 R18 (Load Rating: 100)
Slavia: CEAT SecuraDrive & Goodyear Assurance Triplemax 2 in 205/60 R16 (Load Rating: 91)
Kushaq: CEAT SecuraDrive & MRF Wanderer Street in 205/60 R16 (Load Rating: 91)

Please note: The event was quite rushed, with very little time to take any pictures or make detailed observations as such. Nonetheless, I did notice the variety of tyres used on the press cars and also made note of the brands and tyre sizes. The load rating was provided to me upon enquiry.

Originally Posted by Guna

Can this be fixed with VCDS tuning? Does switching to AT tires improve? Tiguan Allspace steering has the same problem but I haven't heard Polo/Vento owners complaining.

VCDS tweaks will not fix the steering vagueness and lightness. There is a separate tool, similar to a tuning tool, which could be used to recalibrate the steering by applying "steering maps" from other cars in the VAG brand onto your car of choice.

I know of someone having done this in the last gen Octavia. There are very few tuning tools of this sort in the country, and very few have access to the same.

AT tyres should improve the mechanical grip levels, but it will do little to change the way the EPS responds.

With every passing generation, steerings have gotten worse. The PQ platform cars like the Polo/Vento/Rapid also suffer from vagueness and lifelessness, but not to the extent that some MQB cars seem to suffer from. The best steerings are those from the first generation Octavia.

Originally Posted by Benoit

Good read. Should have been a wonderful experience. I can only imagine how the Octavia or the Superb would have performed in the speed tracks.

Originally Posted by Aman2438

It really must have been an amazing experience. I can just imagine many people would have missed the Octavia vRS.
I was never a fan of our Rapid's steering but after reading this review it seems like Skoda has really messed up in the steering department.

Thank you! I'm certain the Superb and Octavia would have smashed the high speed test. Some day, I would love to sample a true sports car or supercar on the high speed track as well as the handling circuits.

As mentioned above, steerings have gotten progressively worse with every passing generation. The Rapid's steering is vague, sure. But the Slavia does not improve upon it and in fact I would say it has gotten worse.

Originally Posted by itra

Look forward to someone testing the 1.0 here. From my personal experience of using this car everyday, that engine could throw some pleasant surprises.

Originally Posted by fabia_firstcar

Can you explain it a bit more? Would the 3 cylinder make more noise (and in a good way?)

I am in the market for an automatic Virtus/ Slavia and inclined towards 1.0 over 1.5 for reliability. I am collecting all positives about 1.0 so that I don't feel like I settled

It's an incredible engine for its size and segment. Power right up to the redline (unlike the outgoing 1.2 TSI and even the TGDI engines from Hyundai/Kia),

It is not as refined as a traditional 4-cylinder car. The 3-pot thrum is audible and the engine can sound a bit gravelly from time to time. But in terms of power and efficiency, it would give some 4 cylinder engined cars a run of their money.

Having said that, if you have the extra 3-ish lakh, I would always recommend the 1.5 TSI over the 1.0 TSI. For one, I am not 100% sure if Skoda/VW has resolved the EPS issue in the 1.0 TSI motors. Two, the 1.5 TSI is pretty great in terms of efficiency and does not feel like a compromise, but the thrummy and high strung nature of the 1.0 TSI can get a bit tiring and will feel like a compromise down the line.

Long story short - If you absolutely cannot afford the extra 3-4 lakh for the 1.5 TSI, sure go ahead and settle for the 1.0 TSI. But let us make this clear, buying the 1.0 TSI over the 1.5 TSI is "settling" at the end of the day.

[Bhodrolok]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

As mentioned above, steerings have gotten progressively worse with every passing generation. The Rapid's steering is vague, sure.

Agree, even the Virtus steering feels light weight and vague compared to the Vento steering. Was quite disappointed when I drove the Virtus for the first time coming from my Vento.

[fabia_firstcar]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

For one, I am not 100% sure if Skoda/VW has resolved the EPS issue in the 1.0 TSI motors.

EPC issues you mean? Oh this is interesting - I thought they plagues both the motors. It is specific to only the 1.0 is it?

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Guna

Can this be fixed with VCDS tuning? Does switching to AT tires improve? Tiguan Allspace steering has the same problem but I haven't heard Polo/Vento owners complaining.

Of course, the steering response can be changed. The EPS comes in built with its own maps and we can switch it. In my Slavia the vagueness is gone with both VCDS hack and better tyres. Earlier at 100+ the steering required constant correction and was not precise. Now it weighs up very well after around 50kmph or as you turn the steering at lower speeds. So at triple digit speeds, the steering is now rock solid and zero corrections are required while changing lanes at any speed.

The high speed track with its banked corners is a treat to experience. The banking is done with a target speed in mind, usually 160-200kmph at which if you drive, the vehicle does not need steering inputs. Have done this regularly in Germany at our company test track and its the best roller coaster ride you can experience, and one of the only situations while driving where we look upwards of the windscreen to be able to look forward.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Of course, the steering response can be changed. The EPS comes in built with its own maps and we can switch it. In my Slavia the vagueness is gone with both VCDS hack and better tyres. Earlier at 100+ the steering required constant correction and was not precise. Now it weighs up very well after around 50kmph or as you turn the steering at lower speeds. So at triple digit speeds, the steering is now rock solid and zero corrections are required while changing lanes at any speed.

Sorry, but this is incorrect information.

VCDS can be used to tweak pre-loaded options at the most, and can help / assist in performing minimal coding tasks.

But one cannot re-calibrate steering feel through VCDS - in the same way one cannot improve braking performance through XDS on VCDS.

What you may be experiencing is placebo or perhaps a mild improvement at best - that could be achieved through VCDS.

What you need is an ODIS Engineering flash tool that can reprogram / recalibrate the steering by applying maps from other cars.

This tool is not available in India, and there are only a handful of them owned by some tuners.

I know of a few people who have applied the Audi S3 steering map on their Octavias and it has transformed the steering feel completely.

Without the ODIS tool, it is impossible to “re-map” your steering.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Sorry, but this is incorrect information.

VCDS can be used to tweak pre-loaded options at the most, and can help / assist in performing minimal coding tasks.

But one cannot re-calibrate steering feel through VCDS - in the same way one cannot improve braking performance through XDS on VCDS.

Where did I mention remap? I mentioned exactly what you did, ie tweak between pre loaded options. There are four pre loaded steering assistance maps in the EPS. You can switch between them in VCDS. Normally that is linked to the drive mode, but for vehicles like Slavia and Kushaq where there are no selectable drive modes, VCDS does this. If you want a custom map then it needs to be flashed separately. However the Dynamic and Comfort assistance curves which are already present in the EPS are more than enough to give you a perceivable difference with respect to steering response. If you want much more stronger feedback and harder feel, there is an option to reduce the assist percentage as well. I for sure can differentiate between placebo and minimal effect, and a good difference since I do such stuff for earning my bread and butter. I guess if you read a bit about EPS software and tuning you can figure out.

What would differ between these maps or assist curves as its technically called is:

• Assist torque by the motor based on steering torque applied by driver - Either linear, a shallow bell or a deep bell curve - This will alter how light the steering feels when you make sudden movements
• Assist torque by motor based on current steering angle - Generally reduces as you turn the steering to make it harder as you turn more
• Self centering force
• Assist torque based on vehicle speed - The most simplest way of hardening the steering as speed increases

The issue with the MQB models in India is that the steering is vague at higher speeds as well as stronger turns. With EPS set to Dynamic mode point 1 and 4 are addressed and made more stronger. Hence the steering feel changes and the vagueness is gone. In ODIS, you can flash a new map altogether which will add to this list or clear one of the maps which are pre existing. Thats only if you want extreme changes to the steering and is more like a jugaad, where if you load a car with a map that belongs to a different car, it definitely has to make a drastic change since the EPS of the car would have been tuned in a way to suit the dynamics of that car and in case of an Audi S3, the curves would be made very aggressive to support the performance oriented nature of the car and that on an Octavia would just multiply the effect due to change in the external factors like the weight of the car, its different suspension etc.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Where did I mention remap? I mentioned exactly what you did, ie tweak between pre loaded options. There are four pre loaded steering assistance maps in the EPS. You can switch between them in VCDS. Normally that is linked to the drive mode, but for vehicles like Slavia and Kushaq where there are no selectable drive modes, VCDS does this. If you want a custom map then it needs to be flashed separately. However the Dynamic and Comfort assistance curves which are already present in the EPS are more than enough to give you a perceivable difference with respect to steering response. If you want much more stronger feedback and harder feel, there is an option to reduce the assist percentage as well. I for sure can differentiate between placebo and minimal effect, and a good difference since I do such stuff for earning my bread and butter. I guess if you read a bit about EPS software and tuning you can figure out.

What would differ between these maps or assist curves as its technically called is:

• Assist torque by the motor based on steering torque applied by driver - Either linear, a shallow bell or a deep bell curve - This will alter how light the steering feels when you make sudden movements
• Assist torque by motor based on current steering angle - Generally reduces as you turn the steering to make it harder as you turn more
• Self centering force
• Assist torque based on vehicle speed - The most simplest way of hardening the steering as speed increases

The issue with the MQB models in India is that the steering is vague at higher speeds as well as stronger turns. With EPS set to Dynamic mode point 1 and 4 are addressed and made more stronger. Hence the steering feel changes and the vagueness is gone. In ODIS, you can flash a new map altogether which will add to this list or clear one of the maps which are pre existing. Thats only if you want extreme changes to the steering and is more like a jugaad, where if you load a car with a map that belongs to a different car, it definitely has to make a drastic change since the EPS of the car would have been tuned in a way to suit the dynamics of that car and in case of an Audi S3, the curves would be made very aggressive to support the performance oriented nature of the car and that on an Octavia would just multiply the effect due to change in the external factors like the weight of the car, its different suspension etc.

Thank you for clarifying. But are you sure that the “sport” and “comfort” and two other options are preloaded in the Kushaq / Slavia ECUs and can be selected through VCDS? Have you personally verified this?

It’s a pertinent question because there are several people I personally know who are rejecting these cars simply because the steering is poor and does not inspire any confidence whatsoever.

If it’s similar to XDS braking configuration (which is available in the Polo through VCDS but made no discernible difference whatsoever) then I would say it’s a waste of time, as I fiddled with that enough to realise that it did nothing really to improve the braking and I had to resort to overhauling the braking system to get the desired results.

But if you say that it is more than just placebo and it actually changes the steering feel, a compelling case can be made for both the Slavia and Kushaq.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Thank you for clarifying. But are you sure that the “sport” and “comfort” and two other options are preloaded in the Kushaq / Slavia ECUs and can be selected through VCDS? Have you personally verified this?

I have experimented with my car for 10k kms and tried every possible thing. And my whole work life is related to ECU development, Vehicle dynamics and testing. The sort of Natrax drive Skoda organised is my routine activity. So I guess I have a bit of verification experience. Here are the options:


As I mentioned earlier, comfort increases the vagueness of the steering and makes it feather light. Dynamic keeps the steering light at parking speeds and once the vehicle gets moving it reduces assistance and increases the self centering force which makes the steering feel more heftier and very precise.

If that's not enough, this is the ultimate combo - Reduce assistance power to 80% or 60% and you will end up in hydraulic power steering type of feel with a good amount of feedback coming from the road surface. I don't think any driver would need more than this much of customization or they should look for a different/higher segment car. At least for this segment there is nothing that comes close to the VAG siblings



Regarding XDS, I am not sure why that's expected to improve braking performance at all. In fact, its only HBA that can increase the sharpness of the brakes when you select it to trigger early. But that's just the feel of the brake and the driver effort but if the driver is always going full brakes then the assistance doesn't matter. Thats when you need bigger brakes.