[TusharK]

Tata Motors has announced that it has filed a record number of patents in FY2023. The company has filed 158 patents and 79 designs, which is said to be the highest number of patents filed in the country by an Indian OEM manufacturing commercial vehicles and passenger cars.



Tata's latest patent filings are spread across a broad spectrum of products, processes and technologies related to electrification, sustainability, safety and connected cars. The company has also filed patents related to various vehicle systems like powertrain, body and trim, suspension, emission control and others.

Tata Motors is said to have been granted 71 patents during FY2023.

Link to Team-BHP News

[Venkatesh]

Tata Motors files a record number of 158 patents in FY23 and Secures 71 grants.

Press Release

[androdev]

This is usually a result of hiring a lawyer with patent filing expertise more than anything else.

[On4Wheels]

I wish these patents would help Tata Motors to improve quality and reliability of the cars so that customer will not be stressed or stranded.

[DRPSREDDY]

Don't think those patents are foolish or stupid in nature. Remember TATA filed more than 200 patents during the R&D phase of Nano. Those including the structural and welding phase to the final emission standards. Ofcourse some of them will be body design panels of upcoming cars as design of external panels and internal components also requires patents to prevent design replication.

With evolving standards they need upgradation and will need technology and who else can do them at lower price than Japanese and Europeans? It is definitely China, India or South Korea. Otherwise you buy from them, it will cost a bomb.

Luckily with electric technology we are Where the Europeans are, coz all of them started at once. Start up Tesla raced ahead coz they were the early adopters buy we are not far behind. Tesla has developed a new engine technology away from the typical Permanent Magnetic motor but we need to see how effective it is. Luckily we are at par with this technology with many other companies and we need to be a breast with Mercedes, VW, Toyota, Tesla, etc as they are companies with deep pockets and resources. We cannot let them get far ahead and we need robust technology.

[TorqueIndia]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Tata Motors files a record number of 158 patents in FY23 and Secures 71 grants.

To add to this, TML has always invested a lot in in-house R&D. Also, these might include patents for JLR as well as Tata Technologies, which is a leading global auto technology supplier. These might help Tata Technologies gain well in the upcoming IPO spinoff as well.

[Nithesh_M]

Doesn't Tata outsource EV engineering to a Chinese firm? A result of which has led to Tata having to rely on Chinese battery pack and BMS(and possibly the motor too?)

Links:

https://m.economictimes.com/industry...w/73586145.cms

https://tataautocomp.com/battery-pack/about/

[TorqueIndia]

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

Doesn't Tata outsource EV engineering to a Chinese firm?

Small correction actually some of the premium Chinese EV companies are relying on Tata technologies for engineering with respect to BMS and Battery swapping like NIO ( China ) and Vinfast (Vietnam)

A result of which has led to Tata having to rely on Chinese battery pack and BMS(and possibly the motor too?)

IIRC right now TML rely on Chinese suppliers for the motors and battery cells according to TML specifications. The Tata comp JV supplies the batteries to the competition too like MG.

Thread

[Nithesh_M]

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

Small correction actually some of the premium Chinese EV companies are relying on Tata technologies for engineering with respect to BMS and Battery swapping like NIO ( China ) and Vinfast (Vietnam)

Are you sure? Someone had their battery pack replacement done recently and the entire packaging had tons of Chinese logos

[WorkingGuru]

What changed suddenly after so many years ?

Patents help monopolise markets & the Indian auto market is already like an oligopoly. This along with other financial hurdles restrictions forms a VERY uncompetitive environment. So, as consumers, this should actually worry us especially off-late big businesses, including the automotive sector, have found favour with the dispensation.

[lsjey]

It is very naive to assume that patents give a big competitive advantage:

1. Patents protect the novel idea and allows a time period where the inventor can exact as much rent as the market can bear without bothering about competition. This protection is supposed to help in growth of technology and knowledge in the society.
2. However, one of the inputs to generate new knowledge is knowledge itself. So patents also have the side effect of preventing new knowledge development or derivative works as patent owner controls the rents. This is usually referred to as patent interlock.
3. As patents get more fine-grained as time passes, an inventor needs to worry about a bunch of other patents and licenses from those patent holders to monetize their patent. This is usually referred to as patent thicket and usually, big manufacturers need an army of lawyers to clear the way for monetization.
4. Governments, through policy decisions to develop certain industries through diktat create something called a patent pool, where all related patents are pooled together and industry participants are allowed to exploit the patents freely. This came in to vogue during the world wars in America.

So, in the modern times, patents may not mean money. Patents have sorta morphed into erecting an entry barrier and also to protect certain key strengths for large corporations, rather than helping them directly make more novel products and hence more money.

Tata filing this many patents should be seen in this context. It is good that Indian companies are filing more patents. This is the only way to achieve a fair degree of independence with respect to choices in product development.

Regards,
lsjey

[Arun_S]

I would like to add what member Isjey has mentioned.

I went through the process of patent filing, but left it midway, so I am aware of the process a little.

You need to be pretty sure the idea is patentable, then find similar things has been done already, what is difference between them and yours.

Your company needs to invest, as all these take considerable effort and time.

Attorney stage comes at the last.

Indian company filing patent is good thing, key factor to look is how much is approved finally.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

With evolving standards they need upgradation and will need technology and who else can do them at lower price than Japanese and Europeans? It is definitely China, India or South Korea. Otherwise you buy from them, it will cost a bomb.

I dont think you can club China, SK and India in the same club as far automobile engineering is concerned. SK are able to sell their cars across the world now (Kia and Hyundai are both well respect now and have volumes to show) and China's domestic market is absolutely gargantuan compared to India so Chinese car makers do not need to sell as much outside but even then they are slowly making in-roads into most mature markets. Mahindra and Tata on the other hand barely have any sales outside India and basically none in any mature highly competitive market.

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

Luckily with electric technology we are Where the Europeans are, coz all of them started at once.

I dont know how you arrived at this. Tata is solely reliant on Chinese supply chain and battery tech for their cars, as do most of the EV 2 wheeler makers. India's highest selling EV is basically a hack job of an existing ICE car (Nexon). We havent had a dedicated EV from an Indian manufacturer yet.

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

Start up Tesla raced ahead coz they were the early adopters buy we are not far behind.

Tesla is a manufacturing and a tech power house which builds cars at scale and at profit which is multiple times the profit per car compared to most legacy car makers. None has been able to scale their EV's profitably and are being kept alive by the ICE sales. We are not even in the same solar system as Tesla.

[2000rpm]

I am not sure why are people trying to put Tata Motors down! Its a genuine achievement.

As someone who has worked in an IP firm before, any patent you possess, is good. (worked for a short while)

Patents can be about small things or path breaking things. Irrespective of scale, a patent is proof that you have created something innovatively.

I would take number of patents as a proxy to measure the innovation.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I dont think you can club China, SK and India in the same club as far automobile engineering is concerned.

The entire discussion has gone into the wrong direction. We are not talking about the growth of size of the market. I meant to say that they have the capability. That is another thing that SK companies have catapulted to the international market quickly coz they took backing of other international players like Mercedes Benz and others. TATA and Mahindra stood by themselves and developed their own ways. Also our market was not big enough, nascent and they were slow, wasted their time and fell back.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I dont know how you arrived at this. Tata is solely reliant on Chinese supply chain and battery tech for their cars, as do most of the EV 2 wheeler makers.

Even Mercedes Benz in it's initial days took support of American company Chevrolet for for engine tech. That depends upon how quickly they pull up and build up on tech and also government support. SKs recieved a lot of government support and Chinese almost all government owned companies. Our companies were never so big.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Tesla is a manufacturing and a tech power house which builds cars at scale and at profit which is multiple times the profit per car compared to most legacy car makers.

Tesla started early and was funded by deep pocket company and developed technology but some components and batteries were still from China. Marketing big and home country gave them huge advantage.