[Omkar]

If you were to take a random poll, you probably will find a lot of fans who love Jaguar. The brand has an incredible allure and many even consider it to be more premium than Mercedes-Benz & BMW! So, why is it that no one is buying Jaguars? When was the last time you saw a relative, friend or colleague getting a brand-new Jaguar home?

Here’s a similar thread by GTO on the performance of Audi - (Related Thread).

Jaguar is at an all-time low in terms of sales, piggybacking off Land Rover’s profits & strengths. How does a brand go from having such high aspirational value to something that’s not even being considered when buying a new car?



Here are some of the factors that are hampering the brand. Please feel free to add more to the discussion.

No relevant SUVs / Crossovers in a market crazy about them! Jaguar has merely 1 luxury SUV in the F-Pace and that's too old & outdated now. The small E-Pace isn't sold in India (it's also 6 years old), while the I-Pace will remain a bit player (it's electric & expensive). This is especially surprising as sister company Land Rover-Range Rover thrives on its SUV & Crossover line-up.

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Aging, outdated product line: Other than a tiny SUV line-up, Jaguar has 2 sedans (XE and XF) and a sports car (F-Type) on sale. The sedans are quite old & outdated (2015 launches), while the F-Type has been around for 9 years (2014 debut). And these aren’t really bringing in any huge numbers. In 2021, more units of the Jeep Wrangler were sold in the UK than the Jaguar XF! Jaguar’s mass-market sedan, the XE is being outsold by the S-Class since 2018 in Europe! In India, we just have the F-Pace, I-Pace and F-Type. The sedans were discontinued, and it doesn’t really leave customers with a lot of options. Can you guess why the sedans were discontinued? Yep, awful sales. No one really bought them.

In the era of Jaguar under Tata, new models and platforms were introduced with heavy investments. However, the cars haven’t been updated which has resulted in making them irrelevant in the market.



Faulty strategy? Thierry Bolloré, the former CEO of JLR took over in 2020 and came up with the ‘Reimagine’ strategy to go fully electric by 2025. This seems like a step in the positive direction, but one cannot abandon ICE customers altogether. According to the strategy, this will be a fresh start meaning, all the cars in their current line-up will be trashed. New cars, new platforms, new everything. While the strategy on paper looks great, "all-electric" also means that petrol & diesel car buyers will have to ignore the brand. Fact is, petrol & diesel luxury cars will enjoy good demand way beyond 2025 and Jaguar is dumping them.

It also means that the tiny line-up will continue. Luxury cars require billions of dollars in development costs and Jaguar-Land Rover doesn't have that kind of R&D spend for a wide product line. At least at the start of the "reimagine" strategy.

Discontinuing the flagship XJ! In lieu of the new strategy, the new XJ which was the flagship limousine was cancelled. Remember that the XJ was already in final pre-production testing and was even designed as a pure electric vehicle. But since it didn’t align with the vision of the future, it was canned. This would’ve been the perfect vehicle for the transition - how can a luxury brand not have a flagship luxury limousine? We are especially disappointed as, at the time of launch, the XJ had a wow factor unmatched by any of its German competitors.

In terms of having a flagship SUV, Range Rover has never been inclined to share its flagship with Jaguar. In fact, we see a shocking lack of sharing between Land Rover / Range Rover and Jaguar. I don't understand why we don't have more SUVs shared between the two, but with different bodies, interiors, branding etc. (like the VAG group with Audi + Porsche + Lamborghini, Toyota-Lexus, BMW-Rolls Royce, Mercedes-Maybach etc.).

Incomplete engines & Transmissions: Compare the powertrain options of the Jaguar and its competitors and you will immediately notice the difference. The German competitors offer something for everyone, as in this segment, a 4-cylinder petrol and diesel would do the job, but you need a 6-cylinder diesel or petrol to keep things exciting. The 3.0L V6 diesel and the V6 supercharged petrol engines that were offered on the F-Pace never made it to India. Even the XE was offered only with the 2.0L petrol engine that too in a lower state of tune in India. The engine wasn’t as explosive as say the 2.0L BMW 330i and the transmission tuning was pretty sad. One of the reasons why buyers preferred the German brands over Jaguar.

Boring lineup: Jaguars have been known for impressive engines and explosive performance. But if you look at the lineup today, all you find are the 2.0-litre 4-cylinder units. Gone are the supercharged V6 and V8 engines. Or even the 6-cylinder diesel!! The previous XF’s supercharged V8 offered a good challenge to the M5, but not anymore. XE Project 8 was limited to just 300 units. The F-Type has always been an exciting and cool-looking car. But the rivals caught up soon and made better products.

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Reliability and After-Sales service quality: This is an area where Jaguar has really trailed the Germans & Lexus. Word on the street is, their reliability is patchy (related article), the after-sales network is small, and the service quality is a hit or miss. Long wait periods for certain spare parts are a customer complaint.

Missing Aspirational Value: Because of all of the above points (in particular the lack of crossovers, outdated product lineup, and boring engines), the brand is losing out on its aspirational value. The allure & aura that Jaguar cars had in the 2000s & before is missing today. I’m sure a lot of BHPians will agree when I say that Jaguars used to make drool-worthy cars, but not anymore.

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End of the day, great products can resurrect iconic brands (Rolls Royce, Maybach) or take them to an entirely new level of volumes (e.g. Porsche). I firmly believe that the brand "Jaguar" can become really strong again on the back of exceptional cars. But it needs an awesome, relevant product line for that. As they say in the automotive industry, there is no problem that a good car cannot solve.


What are your thoughts on this? Is Jaguar walking right into another pitfall? Or will the ‘Rise from the Ashes’ strategy put it back on the map?

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!

[anjan_c2007]

The Tata JLR group now seeing better days with the first ever profits reported by JLR during the October- December 2022 quarter. Tata Motors, India, has been doing well lately, but JLR had reported losses during the pandemic and post pandemic period due to poor demand, affecting the Tata Motors balance sheets.

https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/...566-2023-01-25

The January - March 2023 quarter also gives good news of profits made by both JLR and Tata Motors. JLR has sold 1,07,386 vehicles in the March (2023) quarter, which comprised 15,499 units of Jaguar and 91,887 units of Land Rover.

https://www.dtnext.in/business/2023/...jump-over-8-pc

Hence hope for better days for JLR and Tata Motors now, that the sales are picking up.

[ashis89]

Weren't the Jaguar group focusing on electrification of their entire portfolio, including an electric XJ? I thought they plan to become a luxury EV brand. It was long ago when they announced the plans and supposed to lead the EV race. In the meanwhile, all the brands, luxury or otherwise have got their EVs while no one is missing the XJ ev.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/nargess...ic-future/amp/

[avira_tk]

This must be the first case of a car brand "going broke by going woke", the electric XJ should have led the charge instead it was canned. The tweener SUVs also do nothing for sales, customers don't want cars with less space, higher prices and weak engines. Land Rover can pick up the slack easily, Tata should just kill this brand and focus on the money spinners under the Range Rover brand.

[tin lizzie]

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[GTO]

Never considered a Jaguar. Not me, not any relatives, nor any friends. Primary reason = lack of an exciting or compelling product. There is no 6-cylinder diesel or petrol matched to a snappy gearbox, with good handling and a fresh design in Jaguar's line-up since years. There are a few good experiences with their after-sales, but there are a lot of bad ones too.

When they did have a wider model line-up, they messed up the pricing, variants or waiting periods. Which really sucks because the brand itself is so sexy. Who wouldn't want to own a fast, well-priced Jaguar sedan / SUV?

Even for pre-worshipped fans, the options are so boring.

Jaguar has lost out to the Germans big time. In 2019, Jaguar-Land Rover sold approximately 5000 cars, but I'm willing to bet that Land / Range Rover SUVs accounted for 75 - 80% of those sales. Selling a paltry 1000 - 1500 cars in 2019 (will be even lower in 2022-23) sucks for such an iconic brand. Heck, Volvo outsells Jaguar today, and Volvo was a nobody till a few years back, with brand cachet that isn't remotely close to Jaguar.

[ajmat]

Jaguar has been the Sharon Stone of the luxury car market !


The XJ has been Jag's mainstay since 1968. Despite them being poorly built, people loved them. Along came the XJ40 in 1985. This took 12 years develop and was inferior to the BMW 7 series E32 and even the Mercedes W126 except for the handling. It sold based on the price and prestige. The other issue was that only inline engines could be used and the AJ6 engine could not cut it with more powerful BMW's and Merc V8's.

Why? The Jaguar engineers feared that the parent company would force them to use the Rover V8. It took 5 years of engineering to get the V12 in the XJ40.

The XJ evolved into the X300 and X350 which were decent cars but not space efficient. The X351 was impressive but Jaguar never kept the car or brand refreshed.

Moving to the mid range cars, the S Type drove okay but its Ford origins were so evident. Ditto the X type. The latter was a very good looking car and could have been further developed. No one remembers them and they were not reliable

The XF X250 was the turning point. It was radical and refreshing and very desirable. Reliability was also decent. In 6 cyl guise, they reflected the Jag values. I still love them. However, Jag never exploited its success.

The following X260 was lighter and had a decent chassis but appeared to be incremental. Add to this, it came mainly in 4 cylinder guise. The engines were adequate which is not good enough in this segment. The Ingenium engines whether in sound or power delivery lacked any character. I do maintain the chassis was brilliant better than the XE

The XE was a car that I wanted to love, I tried to buy one but the test drive (once on a track and once on the road, left me underwhelmed). Rear seat space was abysmal. A 3 series shows it up, more so when you jump from an XF into a 3 series.

The F Type is a very nice car but was too small to be considered as a traditional Jag sports car. Its problem was the affordability and brilliance of the Boxster. A lack of product maintenance saw it fall by the wayside. It is a very good car though.

The SUV's are merely rebooted Velars and Evoques. Enough said! The I-Pace was a really good car but too chunky. Again, Jaguar squandered its first move advantage in the luxury electric space.

If the I-Pace underpinning were further developed, the still born XJ would have refreshed the brand similar to what the first XF did. All these years, Jaguar blinked, too many times.

What has sustained Jaguar but now killing it has been being a division of Range/Land Rover models. They print money and the dealers are not too bothered with the handful of Jaguars gathering dust and are not at all bothered in supporting Jaguar owners. There is no covert support for the after market either.

Why would anybody bother into a fight with the German Big 3 in the segment when you can print money with fewer bigger SUV's with fatter margins? Add to this saloons and coupes are no longer the fashion.

Jag has only the following

• Go high-end niche - Difficult, low rate of return due to lack of volume, brand positioning difficult
  
• Go radical and electric - Was possible but too much time has passed. Will take immense branding and marketing
  
• Die - Most likely

So why the Sharon Stone analogy?

In the movie "Basic Instinct" , she plays the wildly desirable heroine however, you yearn for but you just cant trust her.... but when those legs stretch out with so much grace, it is a moment to savour!

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Omkar

I’m sure a lot of BHPians will agree when I say that Jaguars used to make drool-worthy cars,

Absolutely, I am still drooling, daily, over my X308 / XJR 4.0 Super charged V8!!



To me, anything and everything that came after the X308 was either a lot less sexy at best, or utter rubbish at worse.

The successor to the X308, the X350 is arguably a better car, but lets face it looks like a pregnant whale. The latest XJR incarnation was seriously fast and hugely comfortable, but it never appealed to me really. To big, to cumbersome.

I do like the F-serie, but I don't fit into it at all.

I have contemplated getting an XF as a company car some years back. Unfortunately, they changed the company lease policies and Jaguars were not allowed anymore. But I still think the XF sort of embodies one of the main problems with Jaguar. It is stonking good car. But it doesn’t stand out. Nobody and I mean nobody will put his thumb up when he/she sees you in an XF. They will probably think you are driving a Ford Mondeo or something like it. That sort of understatement might has its appeal for some, but it rarely gets you lots of sales!

If I rock up in my Jag anywhere, a petrol station, a parking lot, people will look at it, some guys and the occasional ladies will compliment me with my car, ask some questions. I have never ever owned a car that does so. When I bought it in Kansas City it was even worse. People would ask if they could sit in it. They would lovingly stroke the leather seats, the wooden dashboards and tell me: One day I am going to own such a car!

Fact of the matter; Depreciation of Jaguars is about as terrible as you can get. My XJR cost $75000 in 2003. I bought it in 2009 for $10000 with only 93K miles on the clock. I probably paid a little over the odds. Still, that means 87% depreciation in less than 7 years. Even Alfa Romeo’s don’t depreciate that quickly.

Depreciation is a good indicator of what the public at large thinks about reliability and longevity. I must add, that my Jag has proven to be very reliable. But Jaguar has a terrible reputation for reliability and depreciation. Which makes it a hugely expensive car to lease, compared to other brands.

Jaguar in the period 2005-2010 or thereabouts spend a lot of effort and money in improving its image, customer service etc. In those years Jaguar actually rose to the top of the (in)famous J.D. Power Survey in the USA.

Jaguar has made many mistakes during the last couple of decades. Of course, them abandoning the V8 and six cilinders all together was ridiculous. Can you imagine me driving a big sedan with anything BUT a V8? I mean 4 pot 2.0L, you must be joking!!

I think Jaguar was always an aspirational brand. It was a car people liked and wanted, at face value, without giving a toss about its actual performance. You just knew, it it looks this good, I just got to have it. When was the last time a Jaguar, or any other car for that matter, gave you that feeling?

Look at some of the classic Jaguars. Not the E-type, those are just for Austin Powers wannabes.

But look at a Jaguar XK150, the early XJ S1-S3, or a Mark 2. Those cars simply oozes class, elegance and substance.

Modern Jaguars are just two a penny. They don’t have any real distinguishing features from any other cars out there. More importantly, they don’t evoke that aspirational special feeling anymore. To me, that is the ultimate problem. They have lost their Mojo as Austin P. would say. They are just like all the other regular guys. Nothing special.

Of course, no forum discussion on Jaguar would be complete without this brilliant Topgear Jaaaag discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eWIrBOc3zE

Now, if you would excuse me, I have to take the mrs out for a bit of shopping in our Jaaaag.

Jeroen

[lionheart_mm]

They're too old and doesn't offer anything more than the German trio. Also, the dealership experience is pretty bad. Jaguar XE was once shortlisted by one of my cousins for his love of the brand but it took the dealer like a couple of weeks to reply back and they were not really enthusiastic about selling their product, and by the time he already booked an Audi. This was in 2018 when Jaguar was still kind of relevant.

[np23]

I remember both in 2014 and 2018, I wanted to pick up the XF, however in 2014 I picked up the W212 LCI E200 and in 2018 the G30 530i instead.When I went to see the XF, especially in 2018, I really wanted to “like” the new XF , I remember they’d the petrol in two tunes, but the test drive on the 20d was so rough and underwhelming, the quality (plastics, seats though had brilliant leather felt like an after market figment)so bad I was unable to believe it was an all new model , the old XF felt newer, the dealer also lacked any interest in keeping the test drive car clean or presentable, they seemed then to be contended with the decent sales of the Discovery Sport then as well as the Velar, however the XF, as much as I wanted to love , it ensured our paths never crossed

[sunilarkt]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Weren't the Jaguar group focusing on electrification of their entire portfolio

I have worked for JLR few years ago (left in 2018), There have been multiple change of leadership that has had serious repercussion on their future roadmap.

When Thierry Bolloré took over as CEO in 2020, He announced a massive job cuts in most of the ICE R&D departments and moved the company towards complete electrification by 2030 then abruptly he left the company after two years. I'm not sure if they are still sticking to their plans.

Compared to Jaguar, RR and LR cars are doing better, but as a company they are still struggling to compete with other luxury brands due to their reputation of poor reliability and high cost of ownership. UK slowdown and drop in sales numbers in China (two of their largest markets) have been putting a massive dent on on the company's revenue and hence it's future.

[sachin_cs]

I had a small stint working at JLR retailer for 6 months, before joining the brand, I had a huge aspiration for the brand, their cars, their values. After being part of the company, I look at things differently now, I still like some of the cars but if I’m asked to put my money on a luxury car right now, I will probably go for the Mercedes or the BMW.

Here’s the reason-

JAGUAR: (CKD-F-Pace)

1. F-pace- beautiful looking car inside out but equally horrible ride quality. The car is way too stiff and you feel every imperfections of the road. The engines are unimpressive, tiny 2.0 litre petrol/diesel engines takes away the fun from a competent chassis. Their fit and finish is questionable, just visit a JLR showroom and tap on the Jaguar logo and grill, it will rattle. It’s across the F-paces these days, open the bonnet and see the quality of insulation used on the wiring harness, it will remind you of the parent company & it clearly doesn’t belong to a luxury car.

2. F-Type- beautiful car but the interiors feel a decade old. All cars of JLR have got the pivi-pro infotainment system but F-Type still has a previous generation laggy system.

3. I-Pace- It’s a nice car but availability is a concern.

Land Rover: (CKD- Evoque, Discovery Sport, Velar)

1. Evoque- I still cannot make my way around as to why would I pay 80L for an Evoque? Brand Value- that’s it. Mechanically speaking, the Evoque is not a true range rover, unlike its bigger sibling, Evoque is not built on a aluminium platform, infact the F-Pace is a complete aluminium chassis but the smaller & similarly priced evoque is not. It lacks proper off-roading hardware like low ratio gearbox etc. Earlier the Evoque had 7th knee airbag because of the above mentioned reason. The only saving grace is the interiors, it has got a beautiful and higher quality leather all across.

2. Velar- On the looks front, Velar is a beautiful machine, has air suspension and good boot space with full size alloy. But thats where the goodness ends, a one crore rupee car producing 200bhp with a 2 litre diesel engine? Sit inside a Velar and then sit inside the Evoque, the smaller sibling has got a far more plusher interior.

3. Range Rover Sport- This was the car I loved to the core, a beautiful beautiful machine inside out. The pricing has shot up when compared to the previous generation and a decently loaded RRS is touching 2 cr onroad but its worth the price I feel. Specially because it only comes with the 3 litre inline 6 diesel. Nitpicking would be the rear seats, they lack underthigh support. The waiting period can run upto 1 year.

4. The Range Rover- there’s nothing like a Range Rover honestly, it’s a brand in its own. No doubt its the ride of the world leaders and the celebrities. However, if I have to choose between the Range Rover & the Range Rover Sport, I will go ahead with the Sport because- 1. They use the same 3.0 Engines 2. Build on the same MLA-flex platform 3. Infact the standard wheelbase RR & RRS have exact same wheelbase of 2997mm 4. Interiors have same layout 5. RRS looks more youthful. Only if you want to go ahead with the long wheelbase version with the executive comfort seat plus which comes with calf support & the likes then only spend 1 cr extra (currently it has supply constraints though). It has the same waiting period as Range Rover Sport

5. Discovery Sport- dated interiors and again suffers from same anaemic engines syndrome. It’s too long in the tooth now. And as was the case with Evoque, Discovery Sport is not built on the JLR’s signature aluminium platform. Quality of leather used on the seats feels too cheap and artificial.

6. Discovery- this car is an underdog in the JLR lineup. The all new discovery is the smoothest car and has a magic carpet ride quality. This is also the most versatile car and very capable offroad, people looking for GLS should definitely have a look. One small trick here- if you are ordering a new Discovery, choose the 3.0 diesel, it turns out to be cheaper than the 2.0 petrol. It will sound weird but that’s how it is, the diesel is priced lower which is usually not the case, for example a Defender Petrol 2.0 will have a price difference of ~25L with the 3.0 diesel. Infact, for all new discovery the 5 year extended warranty is priced at 1.34L but for F-pace, its priced at 1.94L, maybe it speaks of the reliability.The only fly in the ointment is the rear looks and middle row seats lacking underthigh support.

7. Defender- the car which offers most bang for your buck. There’s nothing like a defender in that price bracket it’s a very robust machine. The shortcomings are wind noise, rattling sounds developing over time and the culprit is- rear door beadings. Again, the 2.0 petrol is unimpressive and if you go for the 3.0 petrol/diesel- it will have a massive price jump.


The biggest problem I felt with the JLR products is the gearbox tuning. It feels like its never on the right gear when needed, the same gearbox from ZF is being used in the BMWs as well but they are far better tuned, heck, even the DSGs of VW are much more responsive then the ones used in JLRs. Also the service quality remains a gamble.

[vinya_jag]

And there were the early 2000s, when Mark Weber was giving Ferrari a scare, at-least in qualifying. The Green cars were storming F1 tracks.



I was such a huge fan of theirs, that my resume was called Jaguar.doc, and I almost got rejected because of this from my first company resume screening.

Post this, even their cars have become bulkier, less elegant, taller, and don't stand out anymore. Possibly, those were the hay days, and its hard to sustain that for these small brands.

[shankar.balan]

There is a neighbour who has a Scarlet XE.
Probably 8 years old. Im going to make him an offer one day.

Like Jeremy Clarkson, ‘excuse me a moment Im just parking my Jaaag’. Gotta get me bag from me Jaaag…

The Jaaag then, was, in the 1960’s and 1970’s the car of choice for the slightly disreputable ‘gentlemen white collar rascals’ of yore. The preferred car for the ‘cad’ and the ‘villains’ of the 1980’s.

Who can forget John Creasey’s Inspector Morse and his gorgeous Scarlet Mark 2?. And their iconic XJ-S popularised in the ‘Saint’ played by Ian Ogilvy.

Beautiful cars. As long as one can get spares there are enough independent garages who can work on them.

Me, I want one some day. Maybe that XE. Or perhaps an F Pace or an E Pace or an I Pace.