[4by4]

Originally Posted by mayankk

This is a hilarious car.

What is the value of this car, I have never understood. What is the "bulletproof" reliability that's thrown up every time someone talks of Toyota, that a Maruti or a Hyundai dont offer?

Couldn't help but agree. This is just an overhyped brand with no special features or extraordinary reliability to justify this low value and high price. I have driven the first generation i20 diesel for 2.7 lakh Km with no hiccups before selling it. And the much-famed resale is also a misnomer. If you factor in the replacement cost of the same model, given the huge price increase every year, it would count as average only.

[manojas]

While I can understand the sentiment here, I think this change may not have any impact on the Fortuner's sales. For some weird reason, Toyota offers this 11-speaker JBL sound system only with the 4x4 models. The 4x2 Legender itself doesn't have this system from the beginning in spite of being more expensive than the 4x4 AT.

I own the 4x4 AT with this music system and I believe Toyota must have offered this in all models.

[harishpr]

The naysayers can rant what they want as most advanced petrol heads won’t buy Fortuner. However, the Fortuner’s customer segment is different. In my 30 years of various automobile ownership, Toyota Fortuner and Innova are the only two to hold its value in resale market. Most won’t believe, but I made a small profit while selling my Fortuner after 3 years of owning. I sold for 50k more than the OTR price and I have not heard of any vehicle in Indian market commanding such resale price.
Some may say that Fortuner has no competition after Endeavour left our shores, but the reality is Endeavour never matched the sales figures of Fortuner during its haydays either.
Fortuner has strong following in Tier-1,2 and 3 cities and it’s something none of us can comprehend.
Despite what many say, Fortuner will continue to sell to its full potential. Those who want all bells and whistles in that price range can check MGs, M&M and Tatas, but their resale or A.s.s is far from what Toyota offers.

[zteg]

Originally Posted by Govind

It is like Toyota gets about Rs 40k per Fortuner, the dealer gets 1L, while our Govt is getting Rs 18L. Probably this might be the major contributing factor to the Australian price difference.

/Govind

Just to add, GST is paid in AU as well, but it is 10% unlike different slabs in India. Registration fee is less since it is paid every year. Fortuner isn't too popular in AU. People either buy the medium sized RAV4 or large sized Kluger/Prado. Haven't seen much on the road.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by harishpr

Toyota Fortuner and Innova are the only two to hold its value in resale market.

Absolutely, a person in south Kerala had an Innova (2006 V series) and a Mercedes S320 CDI (2007). His family sold (he died in 2021) both cars last December and I got this from his son:

Innova: Bought for 15L+ and sold for 4.90L. 195,000 kms in odo
Mercedes: Bought for 68L and sold for 9.85L, 81,000 kms

(2006/2007 showroom prices are approximate as his son does not recall the exact prices. The sell price and ODO are accurate. Both cars were incident-free).

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by harishpr

Those who want all bells and whistles in that price range can check MGs, M&M and Tatas, but their resale or A.s.s is far from what Toyota offers.

I must admit that thread after thread, Fortuner is probably the most hated car in the forum. Every 2-3 months a thread on Fortuner pops up, and there is series of bashing, which is understandable given the hatred. That said its a pity that in an enthusiast forum, 2.8L diesel engine making 204PS power/500NM torque and a 2+tonne BOF doing 0-100 under 10 seconds does not even matter. All that matters is lack of features(read Sunroof), poor interiors and as some say comfort probably even poorer than likes of Gypsy/Gurkha etc.

[@PetrolheadASH]

It is really sad how Toyota is fleecing customers. The Fortuner is only selling because it has a "bullying" road presence and because it can go offroad well. The ride comfort, interiors an now this deletion really do not justify the price tag. Toyota has not come up with any good model except for the cut copy paste of the Suzuki models. It is only time before customers start rejecting their products.

Really Sad.

[suryaj1990]

They have made a great product. No denying that. They are going in lines with other brands too. See what Mercedes costed in 2009 and what its costs today (Any Variant). All brands have taken the numbers way up north! However, most brands have gone unrecognised because they have been selling premium interiors which remain in most cases even today. Suchas Skoda and VW. However, Toyota has been selling their plastic interiors from back then till date with just a bit of leather thrown in. Quality has detoriated but their car outlives. In my opinion, Toyota needs to go a bit more premium and quality induced. They are going as per market trends and I won't blame them. At the same time, I won't buy their products at that cost since it won't fit the bill. Taking a 60 lakhs fortunes off roading is madness.

[Jangra]

To me, their 11-speaker system was nothing to write about in the first place, my 4-speaker system in Vento sounded much better. If Toyota wanted to create a buzz about them not being a value-for-money product, they should have deleted Apple CarPlay / Andriod Auto.

[samitjain]

Originally Posted by Contrapunto

Your rant is a common enough one. It must indeed be frustrating to see this herd behavior from the Toyota customers. However, having owned Tatas, Maruti, Ford (de facto owned a Nissan Sunny) as well as an Innova and now a Fortuner, I can tell you that all that myth of reliability, peace of mind etc is real.

Most people who criticise Toyota, it seems have never experienced a Toyota product or its services. I was also critical of it till I bought my first Innova. The whole Toyota experience from car to service is far ahead of any manufacturer. Have owned most brands - Maruti/Hyundai/Tata/Audi/BMW, Toyota is way ahead. You buy expensive - true, but you sell also expensive and are compensated for high price. Add then the added benefits of peace of mind, reliability.

First time I saw a car which didn’t require coolant change before 1.5 lakh kilometer. Getting diesel Innova serviced was cheaper than Dzire diesel. The service staff attends to the minutest of issues and try to resolve it. While other manufacturers simply ignore it or say it is normal. Air conditioning is never an issue unlike VW and Honda cars. Switches don’t give up. Chrome lasts longer. Not many major flaw in their designs. Cars Don’t require expensive synthetic oil. Advisors don’t push for engine flushing or decarbonisation. Don’t require octane 95 rating fuel.

You have to buy a Toyota to experience it. Not only in India, abroad as well people swear by Toyota Brand.

[Formula1]

Well, since we're in the 50 lakh range, I think it's time for Mercedes to indianise their G Class chassis and launch a barebone reliable "brawny" vehicle. Or use one of their niche vans or something. I'm sure TATA and Force can support them.

Hyundai would never do it without also turning it into a deathtrap. Only Ford had any desire to take on the Fortuner.

[V.Narayan]

As spring changes to summer in the capital and the mighty sun continues its northward journey towards the Tropic of Cancer, it seems Toyota bashing season has started yet once again. No one kicks a dead dog hence Toyota bashing is in fashion. I wonder how many of the Toyota/Fortuner bashers on this thread have ever owned one!

I can understand a customers lament that Toyota often increase prices to exploit their well deserved market demand and don't always provide features to match. That is true. But then no one is forcing us to buy a Toyota in the first place if we don't find the price-offering combination attractive.

I am not a music connoisseur unlike many on this forum. I can comprehend that 2 speakers are better than 1; and that 4 can be noticeably better than 2. But for 99% of the ordinary folks like me beyond 4 speakers the law of diminishing returns sets in. And as this is a car and not a drawing room at least some of us stay singularly focused on driving rather than appreciating the subtleties of 4 speakers versus 7 versus 11. I'd rather stay focused on that two-wheeler moron who will suddenly switch lanes or come barging in from a side road.

As a past and current owner/driver of the following Toyotas - Innova, Camry, Lexus ES - I vouch for their uteer battle tank reliability and outstanding customer service. None of the other brands I've owned ever came close - Honda, Volvo, Opel, Skoda, Cielo, Padmini, Maruti Zen.

[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

As spring changes to summer in the capital and the mighty sun continues its northward journey towards the Tropic of Cancer, it seems Toyota bashing season has started yet once again. No one kicks a dead dog hence Toyota bashing is in fashion. I wonder how many of the Toyota/Fortuner bashers on this thread have ever owned one!

I can understand a customers lament that Toyota often increase prices to exploit their well deserved market demand and don't always provide features to match. That is true. But then no one is forcing us to buy a Toyota in the first place if we don't find the price-offering combination attractive.

I am not a music connoisseur unlike many on this forum. I can comprehend that 2 speakers are better than 1; and that 4 can be noticeably better than 2. But for 99% of the ordinary folks like me beyond 4 speakers the law of diminishing returns sets in. And as this is a car and not a drawing room at least some of us stay singularly focused on driving rather than appreciating the subtleties of 4 speakers versus 7 versus 11. I'd rather stay focused on that two-wheeler moron who will suddenly switch lanes or come barging in from a side road.

As a past and current owner/driver of the following Toyotas - Innova, Camry, Lexus ES - I vouch for their uteer battle tank reliability and outstanding customer service. None of the other brands I've owned ever came close - Honda, Volvo, Opel, Skoda, Cielo, Padmini, Maruti Zen.

I couldn't agree more Sir. Now that I have been driving the Fortuner for the last 10K kms, I can truly appreciate the depth of engineering in this vehicle. Is it overpriced? sure it is, but then can anyone show me one vehicle that gives all that the Fortuner does, in the same price range?

When I was buying the Fortuner, a lot of friends told me I am wasting my money and that the Scorpio-N was 90 percent of the car for 60 percent of the money (!).

Today I tell them that a car is far more than the sum of its parts and cannot be bought based on an excel sheet.

In the last five months that I have owned the Fortuner, I have driven it in two feet deep water (Gurgaon deluge in Sept), I drove it across a field for over 10 kms because of a road block on the highway, I drove it in sub zero temperatures over roads that would break lesser vehicles. To date, no rattles, no squeaks, one wash and it looks as if it came out of the showroom.

And I have not even said a word about that engine. The 2.8 diesel coupled with the 6 speed AT is truly one of the greats today.Tthere is a reason Toyota uses this for the Prado as well.

So to all those baulking at the omission of the JBL system, all I would say is that if that is the reason for not buying a Fortuner, more power to you- you always have the MG Gloster to buy and enjoy.

[vredesbyrd]

I see that there are two camps in the forum:

1) The bashers: They have different reason to dislike it. Some say it's too uncomfortable for the price while others bash it for not being a smartphone with wheels

2) The loyalists: It seems that more than the notion of disliking the Fortuner, they are bothered about disliking and disapproving people from Camp (1)

3) The third camp: Unknown to the two camps above or most likely neglected. Here, people love the Fortuner but believe that it is absolutely not worth the money Toyota is mooching off it's customer base (I'm part of this camp)

If the Fortuner were 12-15L cheaper then I'd have that booked instead of a Scorpio N 4WD AT

But nevertheless, the few shortcomings of the Scorpio are power output of 2.2, ground clearance and a marginally less bully factor (a.k.a. financially smart goon)

The Fortuner costs 47L here (4x4 AT) while the Scorpio settles for around 27L (4WD AT)

Even if I earned 1.5x of what I do now, I'd still refrain from getting a Fortuner.
However, the same variant costing 32-37L would have held a totally different decision for me.

There, I said it.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by vredesbyrd

If the Fortuner were 12-15L cheaper then I'd have that booked instead of a Scorpio N 4WD ATBut nevertheless, the few shortcomings of the Scorpio are power output of 2.2, ground clearance and a marginally less bully factor (a.k.a. financially smart goon)

You raise a very valid point. The Scorpio N Z8 4WD AT will check 80% of the Fortuner Boxes. Besides, Scorpio's are generally reliable. However Fortuner sells on the Brand Image and relative exclusivity.
Problem with the Scorpio N is that you spent 28 Lakhs on a top of the Line Z8 and there will be the Z4 that costs 1/2 the price, parked next to you reducing the brand value. This won't happen with the Fortuner.
My take is that if money is not an issue, get the Fortuner, else the Scorpio 4WD AT.