[Born 2 Be Wild]

Well i feel going by the Op's requirement where traveller's include senior citizens, its best that you get a innova hycross, a used tata hexa or a Kia carnival. Since you have been using sedans for sometime sticking to a sedan will also make sense, have a look at the skoda superb. Now coming to his question of comfort in a fortuner, i feel mine is absolutely perfect for what its built to do. No one in my family has complained so far about the ride quality. Like some one rightly said comfort levels are individuval specific, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist! So to each his own. People may complain and bash fortuners ride comfort or call it obscenely priced for what its worth. However toyota just keeps smiling back, looking at the sales figures of the fortuner Each month, knowing well that they have decimated the competition in that segment completely!

[youngmonk]

Hello!

If comfort is the pinnacle for elders then you can't go wrong with the Kia Carnival. Has wide apertures, excellent ingress and egress angles, and a smooth drivetrain for the not-so-spirited. It tries to go toe to toe with the coveted Velfire but at a much lower price.

The

facelift KA4

is expected to arrive on Indian shores soon.

The other well-built products on your TD should include
- Jeep Compass/Meridian
- Jeep Grand Cherokee (if budget is not an issue)
- Tata Safari 6 seater (note that all these products most likely come from the same manufacturing line
- Last but not least XUV 700 (only if you can wait)

I've TDed the Innova Hycross & Crysta, XUV 700, Safari, and Jeep Compass/Meridian for the better part of 3 hours each and these are my observations.

Some context - I've owned the Gen1 Ford Figo(2010) and the Verna Fluidic (2012) so my observations will be based on these two machines.

The Jeeps
- Strongly built vehicles, well-equipped without annoying tech, good engines marred by sluggish gearboxes.
- Comes with FSD suspension which kinda allows you to fly over bad roads.
- Absolutely comfortable for moderately high speeds (driven between 120-140), negligible body roll, and planted drive.
- Comfy and snug interiors - my 65-year-old mother really approves of it.
- Lovely color options
- Cherokee is very spacious for a 5-seater - the only other car I remembered when I first stepped in was the X5 (2017). It's clear that this car was supposed to come in its 7-seat guise but didn't make it due to pricing challenges.

The TATA Twins
- Great build, nice platform, same FIAT engines used on the Jeeps paired with a smooth shifting Hyundai 6-speed auto. (Can't comment on manuals as I've only driven automatics)
- Absolute mile muncher (as long as you can live with TATA's QC and service)
-

New version

is more comfort-oriented without most of the annoying tech.
- Steering might feel a tad heavier for someone who's upgrading from a Verna (electric steering)
- Respectable NVH, great suspension, High ingress & egress (mom suggested getting a stool - she's 4'11)
- Refreshed infotainment should address most of the issues that once plagued the product
- Wider color/style range - comes in 6 & 7 seats. (which are absolutely usable compared to 700/Meridian)

XUV 700
- Absolutely bonkers product from Mahindra.
- Said to be having FSD suspension. I haven't found it to be much different from the TATAs.
- High power on tap - the petrol mill especially is absolutely fun to drive. It is actually the only fun - relatively big car in this segment, market, and price point.
- Has its fair share of niggles and issues and have heard great stories about Mahindra service - so peace of mind I guess)
- Calm cabin (petrol esp), commendable ingress & egress (approved by mom )
- Super light steering masks the size of the vehicle. Makes it easy to go around town more often.
- Easily malleable white interiors (Jeep has 2, Tata has 3)
- Modern infotainment loaded with tech which is fairly usable (adaptive cruise control being the highlight)

if you're a family of 5, then all these cars make sense (except for the safari where you can easily accommodate 1 more). The XUV and Jeep can fit 4 in comfort, anything beyond will become a hassle.

Coming to the Toyotas
- I personally feel the Hycross is an evolution of the Crysta
- So if you like the Crysta you'll automatically like the Hycross
- It's a cross between an MPV and an SUV so you'll have the good/badness of both.
- Not much power after 100kmph.
- Dated but comfortable interiors - Hycross also has ottomans for more comfort (not available on any other car currently except maybe the Velfire)
- Functional infotainment and good platform
- Again great choice if there are elders/kids in the family.

My suggestion would be to benchmark the Toyota with the KIA and if both are not to your liking, definitely TD the other cars mentioned here.

Good luck.

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by youngmonk

Hycross also has ottomans for more comfort (not available on any other car currently except maybe the Velfire)

The current generation Kia Carnival also has Ottomans! Just because Toyota has given electric ottomans to the HyCross, the Carnival's manual ottomans are being forgotten by the market, which are more usable than the ones offered on the HyCross

[Air_Suspension]

To everyone on this thread bashing the Fortuner's ride quality - You are absolutely right!

My 2017 fortuner is an absolute beast on the road with it's road respect and high positioning. But after 6 years, I can definitely say that this is not the car if you want comfort.

I've tried rectifying this with a 2 Lakh TEIN active damping upgrade, but I am now wiser with a lighter pocket. I've yet to try the Billstein shocks, but even then I'm fairly convinced that the fundamental ride of my BOF cannot be changed.

My mother too has been recently asking me if it's time to change the Fortuner (I have eyes on the XC 40 recharge). Please go with other options if you value the comfort for your parents/grandparents.

[Aditya94]

Originally Posted by swiftLife

Let me first clarify that I have never driven a Fortuner or never even sat in one.

And from what I can sense, your heart is set on the Fortuner but you don't want to make a bad purchase.

IMO the only reliable way for you to know if it's the right vehicle for you is that you rent one. Rent a Fortuner for a minimum of 3-4 days. Live with it, take it out in the city, go out for a long drive, go to a mall etc.
You need to experience it at a sub-conscious level in order to know if the vehicle is for you.

I am saying this based on my fair share of experiences in renting self-drives when I am out of town. And from what I observed, even a long test drive is not sufficient.
And for my own purchase of my next car, after I've made the final choice, I will rent it out, live it for a few days and make the final decision.

You sir have have hit the bulls eye! I really like the Fortuner for plethora of reasons which have been thoroughly discussed in this forum. I would definitely do this exercise. Rent a Fortuner, drive it around for a few days to know for myself if I can live with it. Generally, none of the brands offer an extended TD and w.r.t Toyota, they hardly Fortuners for display, much less for TD.

Thanks for this invaluable suggestion. This seems to be a very pragmatic approach for any potential car buyer!

Regards
Aditya

[SN88]

How comfortable is a fortuner?

Comfort in a Fortuner is how safety is to Maruti, reliability is to VW, service is to Skoda and sales is to FCA. Non existent.

I used to drive it in 2018 and absolutely hated it on regular concrete roads.

[Aditya94]

I thank all of you for sharing your valuable inputs. I am not individually quoting each of you since the post would be too long. My summarized understanding / opinion:

1. Kia Carnival – A very spacious car, but too big for the city traffic. With metro work going in full swing in Chennai and Bengaluru (I drive to Bengaluru at least once a month), I’m afraid that it would be difficult for me to manage. Parking could be a real issue, even if driving is not.

2. Skoda Kodiaq – I have not personally driven one nor been in one. But I do look forward to hold on my next car for at least a decade as it could possibly be the last ICE car that I would be driving considering that more manufacturers are entering the EV market. My people are notorious for travelling heavy luggage. That coupled with a powerful 2.0 TSI and some spirited driving would mean that I would get woefully low FE. Plus, it being a CKD spares could be an issue in the long run. I’ve had a friend of my father who used to send his car to Bengaluru (from Chennai) to get his Skoda Yeti serviced as he was not satisfied with the ones in Chennai (although this was a while ago)

3. VW Tiguan – Same as Kodiaq. Plus it lacks a 3rd row and the allspace has been discontinued.

4. Innova Hycross – This was one car which did not even cross my mind (Silly me!). Now that it comes with loads of creature comforts and the reliability of a Toyota; seems to be a strong contender. The road presence too seems to be quiet good and of all the 7 seater cars, Innova has been the only car where I would volunteer to sit on the 3rd row ( I am 6’1 for reference)

5. Jeep Meredian – As pointed by a few, reliability could be a deterrent. But an even big deterrent for me is the history of American automobile companies in India. When a behemoth like Ford was constrained to leave the market, I honestly don’t have good opinion on a brand whose cheapest model is OTR 20L+

6. Hyundai Tucson – Yet another car which I really considered (although it is a 5 seater). However, I am an old timer when it comes to cars. I don’t have a use for ADAS, at least in Indian conditions. Too much of electronics like Electric parking brake, Touch enabled AC controls just to name a few. I have been reasonably satisfied with Hyundai’s service. I always give it for servicing to HMP (Hyundai Motor Plaza), which is run by the company itself. However, over a year and half ago, the latch in the center armrest gave way and I had raised it multiple times with them. I was assured that they would get hold of the child part. The last time when I visited them, a service advisor informed me that only the i20 has the latch as a child part and it was not available for the Verna. I would be required to replace the entire center console for 12k. That was something which I did not expect from Hyundai. If a mass market car like the Verna has issues w.r.t spares, I cannot trust them and plonk 40+L on it. Since there is too much of electricals, I wouldn’t be surprised if they replace entire parts instead of repairing them. Could be an issue after the warranty period.

7. XUV 700 AWD- A very good car. Feature rich, powerful and reasonably good service. It would be nice if it comes with ventilated seats and adjustable 2nd row

8. Tata Harrier/Safari – We’ve owned a Tata Indica which was eons ago and my mother loves Tatas. I would consider this too.

9. C5 Aircross – I have C5s only outside Citroen’s showroom in Mount Road and I honestly don’t know how good their service is.

10. Camry – A lexus with a Toyota badge. But I have scrapped the belly of my car sufficient enough in the verna and the Camry having a longer wheel base is prone to more issues. But that’s least of my concern. Now, my mother/grandmother are finding it difficult to get up from a sedan as it is comparatively low slung.

I do agree with all by fellow BHPians that ingress and egress might not be convenient for old people, especially women. In fact, I’ve asked a fortuner owner how does his saree clad mother manage to get onto a fortuner and his reply was she does struggle a bit.

But as all of you know, sometimes when it comes to cars, we tend to drift towards what our heart says. But when it comes to family, we better listen to our brain.
I am missing the Ford Endeavor now

Thanks and Regards
Aditya

[Formula1]

Perhaps you can get a new XUV700 and a used Camry for Fortuner money... And also sell the Ciaz and Verna.

Your grandma would be very happy.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by Aditya94

But as all of you know, sometimes when it comes to cars, we tend to drift towards what our heart says. But when it comes to family, we better listen to our brain.
I am missing the Ford Endeavor now

Thanks and Regards
Aditya

Pls do a quick search about reliability issues with the Fortuner. Especially since BS6 came in. You’ll be shocked.

You are being overtly concerned about reliability, overestimating one and underestimating others. Short of you getting an absolute lemon, there are negligible chances you having trouble with any of these cars. Also, there is no point judging manufacturers and their support by what happened 20 years back. As someone living in a full fledged metro city, you should be the last one to worry about service support or spare part availability.

Kodiaq has been on sale in India for 5 years now, and there are hardly any issues. Even with the DSG, the new DQ381 has not given any problems to anyone. We have one in the family, I sincerely believe it is the single best car you can buy for 45-50L. Meridian issues have been related to cabin rattles in the early cars, that has been fixed now. Nobody ever complained about build or ride and handling or comfort or things not working as they should. C5, for its limited sale, I’ve only heard praise for the car and nothing about any niggle or breakdown. Ditto for Tucson, which is a global success story.

Regardless, if you are so worried about reliability and are trusting of Toyota brand, then you should take your family to see the Camry. The seating is not too low. It is definitely better than Ciaz and Verna.

[itwasntme]

Eyes closed Tucson Diesel auto in the mid-variant, I think Signature.

No ADAS worries and pretty well loaded. Hyundai reliability, superb back seat and huge boot, creamy diesel & good resale later.

Don't let a Verna latch put you off Hyundai.

[Slushmaster]

As a person who is currently the Owner of 2021 Fortuner, 2017 Innova(Family owned), 2016 CIAZ(Sold), Safari Storme and 2017 Verna, I think I can add My perspective.
1) For senior citizens, getting in and out of Fortuner is difficult, whereas it is perfectly fine with Innova.
2) Getting out from Sedans is a problem for senior citizens(My Mom, uncles and in-laws) after long drives
3) Pick Fortuner if only there is a need for 4wd as nothing comes closer to it. For comfortable long drives on well paved surfaces, pick Innova.
4) You are absolutely right about Fortuner's ability to annihilate bad roads, nothing comes closer.
5) KIA carnival is a good car, but in my opinion it is too low slung and keeping in mind the craters and wall sized speed breakers, it's strictly meant to be driven on decent roads.
6) Now coming to the Reliability, these new generation cars are Ok, but the true colours are shown by them once you are past warranty. Mechanical failure, critical component failure, electrical failures are very common past 2-3 years of ownership. Those who say that Fortuners are overhyped for their reliability, I beg to differ. Take any so called Pseudo SUVs/MUVs to the rural roads and you will start hearing rattles or some other issues cropping.
7) Toyota SUVs/ MUVs are abuse friendly and they serve their purpose well
8) BS6 fortuners have some cases of DPF choking, but it is a problem which is not present in all the cars(Fortuners)

So, go for the Fortuner only if you want to take it to remote places and there is a need for some off-roading. For rest, take Innova or the Hycross.

On TATAs & Hyundais, they are making cars that are selling like hot cakes as they appeal to a larger audience. But, I think they are not built the same way they used to build them 5 years back. Tata is catching up with the competition by adding features and bling to their cars but sourcing poor quality mechanicals. Hyundai is just degrading the overall quality of their components, even the paint is of cheaper quality now as you can spot many I20s and Cretas with peeled off paint. Just my thoughts and nowhere I want to defame Tata or Hyundai as they are here to make money and sell cars. Skoda is a very desirable brand that has given India some exceptional vehicles, but the shady practices by its dealers has given it a bad name.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by Aditya94

I have a small query people. How good is the comfort levels on the Fortuner?

We mean, My mother in her 50s, Father in his 60s and my grandmother in her 80s.

As someone who has a Verna as well as an 80+ year old aunt at home, I will share my thoughts.

Even before looking at comfort, you need to think about the ease of ingress and egress. My aunt is easily able to get in and out of the low-slung Verna but finds it difficult with the slightly taller compact SUVs. So a Fortuner would be highly impractical. Something to keep in mind and have her check.

Have you considered luxury sedans? Something like the Superb or the 3 series would be a good alternative in the same price range as the Tfort.

[androdev]

Ride comfort is a very complicated subject with many contributing factors.

Centre of gravity: We all know that a lower ride hight gives excellent road stability (minimal body roll). No amount of budget can beat physics. SUVs would be poor in this aspect. Sedans would be excellent. Vans and crossovers would be quite acceptable.

Getting in/getting out: Some people are very flexible even at the age of 80+ and the opposite is true for some young people. It also depends on how often you need to get in/out and if the car has grab handles and someone is there is assist you. Sedans would be poor (too low). Vans would be excellent. SUVs would require climbing up/down that can solved by installing some kind of step (these days you get fancy auto retracting type).

Suspension and tires: Model specific and can only be judged based on test drive. Sometimes thick tires compensate for stiff suspension. IMO, tires are the single most important thing in your control to improve the ride comfort.

NVH and plush feeling: Sedans from segments like Camry above will be in a class of their own. No contest. Imagine having a quiet conversation with pleasant background music. Cars like Innova and Carnival offer space and creature comforts but they still don't give you that cocoon life feeling.

Seats: Most cars have good front seats. Can't say the same for rear seats even if you increase the budget. Honda City has great rear seats compared to much more expensive cars. It's less tiring when you are seated at the front (less claustrophobic, less nausea, better seats, etc.) Some seats offer space but could be rock hard or shaped to miss lumbar or under thigh support. Off late manufacturers are resorting to cheap tricks to fool you into thinking there is lot of rear leg room but a keen observer can see the lack of ergonomics in the seat design. Basically if you keep the sit upright, reduce the under thigh support and overall cushioning etc. you can make it feel spacious or offer better boot capacity.

Drivetrain: Smooth petrol CVTs and modern hybrids/EVs completely eliminate the jerky to and fro motion.

Driving style: Kind of obvious. It will be comfortable if you are a smooth driver that anticipates the traffic and avoids needless sudden acceleration/braking.

Road conditions: Smooth straight highways (like US freeways) will not expose the limitations of the cars as much as average Indian interior roads.

[Livnletcarsliv]

I think there are enough recommendations already.
So I am just adding my 2 cents.

1. You mentioned you need 4*4/AWD. Since you are coming from 2 sedans, no off-roading, and with senior people on-board, what is the rationale behind your requirement of 4*4/AWD?
2. Fortuner is definitely a no-no. Comfort, Driving Dynamics, Feature list, Handling, etc are always better in a monocoque car than a BOF car. Especially Fortuner (not Crysta, not LC, not Camry) in India is a significantly over-rated car. For eg - If not for politicians, media, and movies I doubt it would have gained this hugely popular face in India. Fortuner will not satisfy you in anything except for reliability.
3. Your only appropriate options are - XUV700 petrol, Hycross, Tucson petrol. You can choose the variant based on your liking. But please note that, today electronics are always part and parcel of the game. The more expensive we go, the more electronics we get. Regarding ADAS, all these mentioned options (except Hycross) come with variants with and without it.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by androdev

NVH and plush feeling: Sedans from segments like Camry above will be in a class of their own. No contest. Imagine having a quiet conversation with pleasant background music. Cars like Innova and Carnival offer space and creature comforts but they still don't give you that cocoon life feeling.

.

In this particular thread given the convenience an MPV/Minivan offers, it would be the best option as you have mentioned.

There is a very India specific use case of vehicle height - the mad traffic and complete disregard for keeping distance from any side of any vehicle, certainly our roads are not as accomodating as the ones abroad.

Imagine BVK Iyengar road on a Saturday, I think even the underground Metro train would be having wobbly knees there. It would be good to be in a taller vehicle in such cases, you don't feel that you are in all that mess, especially if someone else is driving.