[Livnletcarsliv]

While I am in the process of buying a car with a specified budget, I realised (quite sometime back) that as a consumer, I don't have a lot of options to choose from.

The mission of the Competition Commission of India says "To promote and sustain an enabling competition culture through engagement and enforcement that would inspire businesses to be fair, competitive and innovative; enhance consumer welfare; and support economic growth".

In a given budget these are the options
1. Upto 15L - Maruti, Tata, (Hyundai & Kia), Mahindra, Toyota, Citroen, Nissan, Renault, Honda - 9 options.
2. 16L-25L - Maruti, Tata, (Hyundai & Kia), Mahindra, MG, Toyota, (VW & Skoda), Honda - 8 options.
3. 26L-40L - MG, Toyota, (Hyundai & Kia), Jeep, Isuzu - 5 options
4. 41L-60L - Toyota, Citroen, (Skoda & VW) - 3 options
5. 60L-1Cr - Toyota, Jeep, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo, BMW, Porsche, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lexus - 10 options
Above 1Cr - Toyota, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo, BMW, Porsche, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lexus, Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborgini, Maserati, Rolls Royce, Bentley - 15 options.

PS 1 - Hyundai & Kia, VW & Skoda are not considered a 2 different options since the difference is negligible/minuscule between them except for the looks, design, features , etc.
PS 2 - Only ICE options are considered here.

For whatever reasons and whomever to blame, we already lost a few desired brands like Ford, GM, Fiat, etc.
Across 1,2,3 many of the brands like Nissan, Renault, Honda, Toyota are surviving only with 1-2 models which again is disappointing. And across 1,2,3 brands like Honda (Civic, CRV), VAG (Octavia, Superb, Passat) are discontinued.

IMO, the following are the reasons (no limited to) for this narrowing options
1. Inflation across the world due - 15%
2. Raising input costs due to high demand for ICs since China is not back to normal yet - 15%
3. Unexpected Russia-Ukraine war which there is no sign to the end line. - 10%
4. India's high, disruptive and erratic tax structure - 30%
5. Global post-covid economic slowdown - 10%
6. India's untimely and unwisely implementation and execution of the so called Green laws (BS6, CAFE, RDE, E20, etc) - 20%

While points 1,2,5 are temporary and which will get better in another 6 months-1 year, points 4 and 6 may not get better. Point 3 is situational.

Don't you think as a consumer, we have the right to freedom of choice? Don't you think that the situation 7-8 years were 100% better than what it is today? Don't you think going forward more brands will trim their offerings? Don't you think more the OEM's as well as the government are one sided that they are going more critical of the situation without first providing the alternatives, especially in India? Please share your thoughts.

[Malyaj]

When you say we don't have enough options, which country are you comparing with? Compared to our neighbours or countries with similar per capita income we literally have a smorgasbord. Compared to the Americans maybe not so much.

But then the used car market in US is huge. Whereas we Indians shy away from used cars. If you include that in your basket, you have many more options. We worry too much about things going wrong because we don't do enough DIY. To be fair, most of us live in apartments have don't have a shed to work in.

The lack of options is in many other sectors. We don't have enough options in international flights, maybe with the exception of Delhi. We don't have any options in sea transport.

End of the day we are a low income country and our manufacturing diversity will reflect that.

[The Rationalist]

From an enthusiast view point the choices are less, but from a general perspective there is enough to choose from. Only segment which has very less options is D and C segment sedans. For sedan guys like me there’s only Virtus/Slavia according to a rational choice, for those who have a higher budget there will be nothing other than A4 & upwards from April 2023! A4 is not a very enthusiast kind of car.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by Malyaj

When you say we don't have enough options, which country are you comparing with? Compared to our neighbours or countries with similar per capita income we literally have a smorgasbord. Compared to the Americans maybe not so much.

But then the used car market in US is huge. Whereas we Indians shy away from used cars. If you include that in your basket, you have many more options. We worry too much about things going wrong because we don't do enough DIY. To be fair, most of us live in apartments have don't have a shed to work in.

The lack of options is in many other sectors. We don't have enough options in international flights, maybe with the exception of Delhi. We don't have any options in sea transport.

End of the day we are a low income country and our manufacturing diversity will reflect that.

I am comparing with our own market probably 7-10 years back. Of course, I understand that it is not an apple to apple comparison to compare us with USA, UK or any other rich countries.

While the flight options are progressing/improving, I feel (my person opinion) that the brand options in cars are decreasing.

[EV NXT]

You’re right - the options are severely restricted as compared to earlier.

Just one example - the Audi A4 came with a 2.0 TDI, 3.2 TFSI, 3.0 TDI (a stonking engine), 1.8 TFSI options at one point in time. Now its just a 2.0 TFSI severely cost engineered engine as the only option.

However the world over, options are reducing as R&D on ice engines are reduced and companies gear up for the shift to EV’s.

Not at all a good time as far as options in cars are concerned.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I am comparing with our own market probably 7-10 years back. Of course, I understand that it is not an apple to apple comparison to compare us with USA, UK or any other rich countries..

Car companies anticipated Indian market to grow like that of China etc. which is why they has an optimistic product range in early 2000. They realised this is a very stagnant market and cut down their portfolio. You can say KIA performed well but market is not big enough to support more companies to achieve similar growth especially with the products in their portfolio. Anything beyond Honda City price range is hard to sell in huge numbers, especially for multiple companies. You can’t blame the industry for lack of demand. In fact, I am surprised they are still operating in India with such low numbers.

[GTO]

Healthy competition only makes things better for us customers. Hence, I find it a bit sad that 3 players (Maruti + Hyundai + Tata) control 70% of the market. Add Mahindra + Kia, and you have 5 players controlling 85% of the market. The rest of the poor fellows (even global icons like Honda & VW) are left fighting for scraps. I'd like to see a market where 10 players control 85% of the market, not just 5.



Hat's off to Tata, Mahindra & Kia for their success stories over the last 4 years . All 3 have performed marvellously. They've fought the big guys & small, and are the sole reason for Maruti + Hyundai's combined market-share to drop from 70% earlier to 55% today.

It''s a brutal market though. A few brands have left India (I miss Ford cars), a few are in the ICU (Nissan) & some have put a cap on investments (Audi, VW which handed over the reins to Skoda). I don't know how Citroen will do as they are just making 1 bad decision after another. C5 overpriced, C3 under-equipped & no AT, C3 Electric having basic specs.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by androdev

Car companies anticipated Indian market to grow like that of China etc. which is why they has an optimistic product range in early 2000. They realised this is a very stagnant market and cut down their portfolio. You can say KIA performed well but market is not big enough to support more companies to achieve similar growth especially with the products in their portfolio. Anything beyond Honda City price range is hard to sell in huge numbers, especially for multiple companies. You can’t blame the industry for lack of demand. In fact, I am surprised they are still operating in India with such low numbers.

I would like to disagree here. Low volumes and buying options are totally different. There are a lot of small markets compared to India, where you can buy any brand/car in the world. While I understand the business viability and sustainability, brands like Ford, Fiat, GM was having enough volumes to justify its expansion and offering of more models in India. But unfortunately, they took the other way that they quit the market. China is a different market altogether. You get a duplicate Evoque at less than half the price of the original. And the number of local brands in China are in double digits and models offered are numerous. We only have Tata, M&M and Maruti.

Personally, I see that one of the important valuation factor is the wheels that a country's top most politicians and government officials use. For eg - US (Beast from GM), Japan (Toyota), China (local brand), UK (local brand). While we (Indians), claim that we are the fastest growing economy in the world for many years now, we are still no where close to having that special vehicle from our own brands and locally manufactured.

Originally Posted by GTO

Healthy competition only makes things better for us customers. Hence, I find it a bit sad that 3 players (Maruti + Hyundai + Tata) control 70% of the market. Add Mahindra + Kia, and you have 5 players controlling 85% of the market. The rest of the poor fellows (even global icons like Honda & VW) are left fighting for scraps. I'd like to see a market where 10 players control 85% of the market, not just 5.


It''s a brutal market though. A few brands have left India (I miss Ford cars), a few are in the ICU (Nissan) & some have put a cap on investments (Audi, VW which handed over the reins to Skoda). I don't know how Citroen will do as they are just making 1 bad decision after another. C5 overpriced, C3 under-equipped & no AT, C3 Electric having basic specs.

Exactly, that is the point here. The automotive community in India has grown 10x or even 100x times from what it was 10years ago. More and more buyers are well informed and well aware. Here most of the time, a model is chosen ONLY because of lack of options. >85% of the Indian car buyers don't have anything other than Maruti, Tata, M&M, and Hyundai. For eg - A XUV700 costs from 16.6L to 31L ONR. How does it make sense to treat a 16L customer and 31L customer, the same way in terms of product - sunroof, door panels, fit and finish, quality of materials used, etc, etc, are the same for both.

[asit.kulkarni93]

The current mess is because of the sub4m and related nuisance. Cars have grown in size. Engines may have been downsized but they necessarily arent less than 1.5L diesels or 1.2L petrols. I personally feel that rule has caused utter chaos in our market. We could have received global products in the mass market segments but these tailored for India cars have caused more damage. As the economy grows there is a shift in purchase power which is clearly visible with the hot selling segments over the last 15-20 years. Initially it was cars like the Alto then Wagonr then Dzire and now it's the crossovers that are selling like hot cakes. Instead of focusing on 10 & 15 year bans, the govt can restructure taxes and give incentives to hybrids. Scrap the sub4m rule and change the insurance slabs. All these measures will definitely help boost the automobile industry. In turn manufacturers should start selling their global products here which will not only enhance safety of the products but also ensure the ancillary industry's growth. The bureaucracy involved needs to wake up. We have lost plenty of global manufacturers and might end up loosing a few more.

[deehunk]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

The mission of the Competition Commission of India says "To promote and sustain an enabling competition culture through engagement and enforcement that would inspire businesses to be fair, competitive and innovative; enhance consumer welfare; and support economic growth".

This is your realization in 2023, but you are lucky to find so many options in the entry segments compared to our times, just Maruti and Hyundai for reliability, Tata, and GM for risk takers. Toyota, Mahindra, Ford, VW, and Skoda were not catering to the entry-level segments. That way CCI has been fairly successful in its objective

[anjan_c2007]

The real competitive segment lately has been in the SUV spaces. SUV's that have been propped up from the premium and not so premium hatch platforms by manufacturers, to fit within the definition of the sub 4000 mm, sub 1500 cc for diesels and sub 1200 cc for petrol have almost every car maker worth its salt jumping in to say "I AM IN". Hence, it's like the B segment hatch prima facie may look weak and frail. The carmaker sends it to the gym, it gets it muscular biceps and also an Adonis shaped body soon after. The hatch transforms itself into a SUV and gets a brand new model name.

Similarly, if a car maker wants to launch an EV, the platforms in their bin come in handy for scrutiny by their designers. The front grille is the first item to get annihilated. Many are added and many other fossil (read fossil fuel) components that are no longer required are annihilated. They make other trappings soon to go with the green number plate and the hatch, sedan, SUV - EV is/are ready.

The 1500 cc plus SUV segments are also seeing more action with new launches and waiting lists for the mass produced machines.

Looks like they are about to abandon the mid sized B hatch and even the C Class sedan segments where there is lesser action. Hyundai and Maruti could be the twosome to ultimately remain in the B and C segments.

Next action after a new ICE car or EV is created by its supreme creator or maker, a launch date is fixed and soon full front page advts are released in the print media and TV commercials are seen to take birth.

There comes yet another new entrant to heat up the competition.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I would like to disagree here. Low volumes and buying options are totally different. There are a lot of small markets compared to India, where you can buy any brand/car in the world..

It's very easy to sell in a small geography as the dealer/service infrastructure needed can easily be set up and you are allowed to be price competitive even without local manufacturing. Indian market is a completely different beast.

Your argument would have some merit if nobody even tried selling nice cars in India. The fact is they did try and learned the hard way that the market doesn't exist.

Opel Vectra, Ford Mondeo, Mitsubishi Cedia, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, Skoda Octavia, Chevy Cruze, Nissan Teana, Maruti Kizashi...

The writing on the wall is clear. Either sell fully localised aggressively cost competitive cars or sell cars with imported content to a small set of buyers who are not price-sensitive.

[gnome]

Maruti and Hyundai (including Kia) are the only car companies that have thrived in Indian market. Tata and Mahindra survived for so long because of their success in commercial vehicles and other non-car business. Rest of them are only surviving, or exited.
Doesn't this point to bad outdated policies? Or all these auto giants do not understand Indian market?

[AROO7]

To give a simple answer to lack of choice in the 15-30 lakh segment is the sub 4-m and engine capacity based tax structure along with too much emphasis on localization. Most of the global companies can't bring their product as it is in India. They have to either chop the rear (Mahindra XUV300), make changes to the platform or heavily localize it (MQB A0 IN), or build something from scratch (Honda Amaze). Now developing a car from scratch especially for India isn't a profitable proportion for many companies. Thus price insensitive customer mainly above 1 crore has so many options.

Also those missing Ford and GM, they both have axed their small car portfolio. They make big profits on trucks and SUVs which North Americans buy like crazy. Making everything big has always been their forte. So why would they focus their energy and money on making small cars for a market like India. That said, Ford has several compact, mid-size, and full-size SUVs in its portfolio (Ford Edge, Escape, Explorer, Expedition, Ranger aka Endeavor). But the weird tax structure in our market made sure they never came and even if they would have come as it is our fuel-economy obsessed public would have never bought those cars.

[RedTerrano]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Don't you think as a consumer, we have the right to freedom of choice?.

I am confused.
You have listed 50 options yourself, but are wondering if we have any freedom of choice? Where exactly are we lacking?

Only ICE options are considered here.

Perhaps you left out electric to avoid apples and oranges, but people are opting for eVehicles in encouraging numbers. Sure we don't have Tesla, but some of the others are still good (e.g. Nexon recently beat their drum and thumbed their nose at Mahindra, after crossing 35,000 units)

For whatever reasons and whomever to blame, we already lost a few desired brands like Ford, GM, Fiat, etc.

Sure, but in the same environment, didn't Kia and MG bloom?

I feel the competition does exist and it is brutal. Those who listen to their customers, adapt and manage to come up with exciting features, survive. The rest are destined to be forgotten.