[TusharK]

MG Motor India has unveiled the eHS plug-in hybrid crossover at the ongoing Auto Expo 2023.



The MG eHS is a mid-size SUV that measures 4,574 mm in length, 1,876 mm in width and 1,664 mm in height. Its wheelbase is 2,720 mm and offers a ground clearance of 145 mm.



The eHS has a large chrome grille up front flanked by LED headlamps. It has a pair of fog lamps surrounded by chrome trim and a skid plate. The rear looks pretty conventional with its wraparound taillights and twin exhausts.



Inside, the eHS gets a 3-spoke steering wheel and a digital instrument cluster, while the centre console houses a floating touchscreen infotainment system.



Powering the MG eHS is a 1.5-litre petrol engine paired with an electric motor. Together, they provide 251 BHP of peak power that enables the car to accelerate from 0-100 km/h in 6.9 seconds.

Link to Team-BHP news

[cl500 di]

Finally, a powerful compact car for the indian market.
Hope they price it reasonably.

[doctorjee]

Plug-in hybrids may help a few fence-sitters convert to EV mobility, however, it makes zero practical sense not to wholly immerse into pure EV if you are not regularly driving long distances (like >100km per day at least). Yes, plug-in hybrids do score over the strong hybrids though.
This MG Hybrid got only a 50km battery range which is minuscule. That means you can never use this for long drives on battery alone and will have to spend heavily on fossil fuels. Today it is very easy to do 500-600km one way (like Mumbai Goa) on a pure EV by making only 1 stop in between (fast charging the battery while you grab some snacks) and spending a total of maybe Rs. 1000-1200. With a car like eHS it will still be >4-5k.

Plug-in hybrids with at least 200km range even if it comes with a small underpowered ICE still make some sense. Keep the ICE for extremely rare cases when you run out of battery juice, which in the last 2.5 years of EV life, I never experienced.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by doctorjee

Yes, plug-in hybrids do score over the strong hybrids though.

Completely disagree with this point. Plug-In hybrid are the worst of both world's - they arent good ICE vehicles and they arent good EV's either.

Their fuel efficiency is worse than the same vehicle with the ICE engine once you exhaust the battery since its relatively big and heavy and therefore cannot be charged quickly by the engine which in the meanwhile would also be doing propulsion duties.

To get the best out of them, you need to keep them plugged in (and hence the name plug in hybrids), which is very difficult for most car owners given lack of access to a charging port where they park the car. Even if you do, it is a bit of a hassle to do it every time you park.

Strong hybrids on the other hand have excellent efficiency at all times with none of the hassles associated with plug in hybrids. In the long term a strong hybrid's battery would last longer as well given their size and the fact that SOC charge is kept between 40-60% at most times while most air cooled plug in hybrid batteries will see degradation to the tune of 30-40% over their life time.

https://getjerry.com/questions/what-...gradation-rate

[doctorjee]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Completely disagree with this point. Plug-In hybrid are the worst of both world's - they arent good ICE vehicles and they arent good EV's either.

Their fuel efficiency is worse than the same vehicle with the ICE engine once you exhaust the battery since its relatively big and heavy and therefore cannot be charged quickly by the engine which in the meanwhile would also be doing propulsion duties.

To get the best out of them, you need to keep them plugged in (and hence the name plug in hybrids), which is very difficult for most car owners given lack of access to a charging port where they park the car. Even if you do, it is a bit of a hassle to do it every time you park.

Strong hybrids on the other hand have excellent efficiency at all times with none of the hassles associated with plug in hybrids. In the long term a strong hybrid's battery would last longer as well given their size and the fact that SOC charge is kept between 40-60% at most times while most air cooled plug in hybrid batteries will see degradation to the tune of 30-40% over their life time.

https://getjerry.com/questions/what-...gradation-rate

I basically said that PHEVs overall make zero sense, except in one single scenario. That is when compared with HEVs. Let me re-explain why.
1. Pure battery efficiency: PHEVs can be run as pure EVs, especially when you do the usual city office commutes. Most people travel less than 50km per day for work and other chores. They don't need to burn oil, at all. Yes once in monthly weekend day trips are possible with EVs with a decent range (~300-400km), again no fuel burning is needed. The cost of EV commutes is ~Rs 1 per km if you charge at home or ~3-4km if you purely charge outside. It is cheaper than the best hybrids can ever imagine (Camry in city real-world efficiency (Bangalore) is 13-14km/l, which is Rs 8/km.
2. Battery comparisons. Comparing Hybrid and EV/PHEV batteries make zero sense. A typical EV battery is 30-50kWh. MG eHS comes with a 16.6kWh battery. Camry comes with a 1.6kWh battery.
3. Talking about battery degradation, you quoted an article on 2013 Outlander. Outlander PHEV uses a very old battery cooling system. MG, on the other hand, thanks to SAIC and CATL, uses the latest tech and the battery degradation is minimal, <10% over 5 years as claimed in warranty conditions.
4. ICE engine power. PHEVs are not supposed to be driven as pure ICEs. You said it is underpowered, but for MG eHS, the maximum power is 284 HP, maximum torque of 480 N.m. The car is easily hit 100 kph in 6.9 seconds. It doesn't look underpowered to me. Camry makes 206HP, 221Nm. 0-100 in 8.3s

Let me reiterate, PHEVs will only help a few fence-sitters convert to EV life. No sensible EV (good brand) user will ever dream of buying a hybrid or PHEV, except may be, if today we get a PHEV with 300km EV range and a decent ICE engine at the price of an EV, which is not going to happen.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by doctorjee

1. Pure battery efficiency: PHEVs can be run as pure EVs, especially when you do the usual city office commutes. Most people travel less than 50km per day for work and other chores. They don't need to burn oil, at all. Yes once in monthly weekend day trips are possible with EVs with a decent range (~300-400km), again no fuel burning is needed. The cost of EV commutes is ~Rs 1 per km if you charge at home or ~3-4km if you purely charge outside. It is cheaper than the best hybrids can ever imagine (Camry in city real-world efficiency (Bangalore) is 13-14km/l, which is Rs 8/km.

Well if you aim to use it purely as an EV most of the time, why not buy an EV in first place? A plug in hybrid is not as efficient as an EV running on electricity either and it does not have the power of an pure EV in EV mode either. The difference even in pure EV mode efficiency is considerable.

Originally Posted by doctorjee

2. Battery comparisons. Comparing Hybrid and EV/PHEV batteries make zero sense. A typical EV battery is 30-50kWh. MG eHS comes with a 16.6kWh battery. Camry comes with a 1.6kWh battery.

Not sure what you are trying to imply. I know it already. My point is Plug-In hybrids are not good EV's and not good ICE cars either unless you plug them in every time you park at home and keep the battery charged to full which is very difficult for majority of the people. Even then after the battery is discharged, they will have fuel worse economy compared to the same car with just ICE. Essentially, a plugin hybrid will only have better efficiency when running less than their claimed EV range compared to a strong hybrid. Above that, even ICE engine car would be better efficiency wise.

Originally Posted by doctorjee

3. Talking about battery degradation, you quoted an article on 2013 Outlander. Outlander PHEV uses a very old battery cooling system. MG, on the other hand, thanks to SAIC and CATL, uses the latest tech and the battery degradation is minimal, <10% over 5 years as claimed in warranty conditions.

From the article, the claim from Mitsubishi was between 2-4% every year which did not turn out to be the case. Do you know how the battery cooling system is different between the two? And Mitsubishi is a known commodity.

Originally Posted by doctorjee

4. ICE engine power. PHEVs are not supposed to be driven as pure ICEs. You said it is underpowered, but for MG eHS, the maximum power is 284 HP, maximum torque of 480 N.m. The car is easily hit 100 kph in 6.9 seconds. It doesn't look underpowered to me. Camry makes 206HP, 221Nm. 0-100 in 8.3s

I never mentioned performance anywhere. Yes they are not supposed to driven as pure ICE but I dont think you have a choice after the battery is discharged after which the battery becomes a dead weight which the engine has to lug and not only lug but charge it as well and also provide propulsion for the car. Not the perfect condition for best fuel efficiency.

By the way Camry can easily deliver between 18-20kmpl. I get approx 14-15 kmpl from my Lexus RX450h, 2.2 tonne SUV with a petrol V6 engine.

Originally Posted by doctorjee

Let me reiterate, PHEVs will only help a few fence-sitters convert to EV life. No sensible EV (good brand) user will ever dream of buying a hybrid or PHEV, except may be, if today we get a PHEV with 300km EV range and a decent ICE engine at the price of an EV, which is not going to happen.

I think I have made my point but here's another take.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsQORFOUgTY

[doctorjee]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Well if you aim to use it purely as an EV most of the time, why not buy an EV in first place? A plug in hybrid is not as efficient as an EV running on electricity either and it does not have the power of an pure EV in EV mode either. The difference even in pure EV mode efficiency is considerable.


Not sure what you are trying to imply. I know it already. My point is Plug-In hybrids are not good EV's and not good ICE cars either unless you plug them in every time you park at home and keep the battery charged to full which is very difficult for majority of the people. Even then after the battery is discharged, they will have fuel worse economy compared to the same car with just ICE. Essentially, a plugin hybrid will only have better efficiency when running less than their claimed EV range compared to a strong hybrid. Above that, even ICE engine car would be better efficiency wise.



From the article, the claim from Mitsubishi was between 2-4% every year which did not turn out to be the case. Do you know how the battery cooling system is different between the two? And Mitsubishi is a known commodity.


I never mentioned performance anywhere. Yes they are not supposed to driven as pure ICE but I dont think you have a choice after the battery is discharged after which the battery becomes a dead weight which the engine has to lug and not only lug but charge it as well and also provide propulsion for the car. Not the perfect condition for best fuel efficiency.

By the way Camry can easily deliver between 18-20kmpl. I get approx 14-15 kmpl from my Lexus RX450h, 2.2 tonne SUV with a petrol V6 engine.


I think I have made my point but here's another take.

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=PsQORFOUgTY

I think you misread my entire post and somehow feel I support PHEVs over BEVs. I don't and I repeatedly mentioned that.

As mentioned by you //a plugin hybrid will only have better efficiency when running less than their claimed EV range compared to a strong hybrid// People who will buy PHEVs will (or should) precisely buy for this use case ONLY. As already mentioned, when the daily commute is less than 50km per day. Do you claim that HEVs are more efficient than in this scenario? This is true for many urban residents of India. We mostly commute between 20-50km per day for work. In the comments section of the YouTube video link shared by you, you will see many such users discussing this, who hardly use the ICE, may be for 5-10% of their total commute per year.

One doesn't need to keep the PHEVs plugged in always as mentioned, at least not anymore. They can be charged from 0-100 in 3-4 hrs. It may be true for older PHEVs.

Finally the range of Camry is indeed 13-14km/l in urban India. There is a post on this on TeamBHP.
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/real-w...y-observations

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by doctorjee

As mentioned by you //a plugin hybrid will only have better efficiency when running less than their claimed EV range compared to a strong hybrid// People who will buy PHEVs will (or should) precisely buy for this use case ONLY.

And if you are going to buy exclusively for this use case, a BEV is a no brainer.

Originally Posted by doctorjee

As already mentioned, when the daily commute is less than 50km per day. Do you claim that HEVs are more efficient than in this scenario? This is true for many urban residents of India. We mostly commute between 20-50km per day for work. In the comments section of the YouTube video link shared by you, you will see many such users discussing this, who hardly use the ICE, may be for 5-10% of their total commute per year.

The problem, and what I have been trying to explain without much success, is you will have to keep the battery charged by plugging it in whenever it is parked, which is not possible for a majority of people. And if you do have access to a charging port, BEV is a much better choice which leaves a plugin hybrid exactly nowhere.

Strong hybrids do not have this problem. They are just highly efficient ICE cars.

Originally Posted by doctorjee

One doesn't need to keep the PHEVs plugged in always as mentioned, at least not anymore. They can be charged from 0-100 in 3-4 hrs. It may be true for older PHEVs.

The access to the power port to charge where you park is the problem and like I said, if you do have access to a power port a BEV is ideal and it wont need to be charged as often as a plugin either. And unlike a plugin hybrid, a BEV will come also with some sort of DC fast charging, crucial when doing longer distances. A plugin hybrid will become a liability as soon as you exhaust the battery range and you cannot fast charge most of them either.

Originally Posted by doctorjee

Finally the range of Camry is indeed 13-14km/l in urban India. There is a post on this on TeamBHP.
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/real-w...y-observations

This post is a sample size of exactly one. Camry Hybrid's are dime a dozen in Melbourne and they get between 5 to 5.5l/100 quite easily.

I think I have made my point. Peace out.

[doctorjee]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

And if you are going to buy exclusively for this use case, a BEV is a no brainer.


The problem, and what I have been trying to explain without much success, is you will have to keep the battery charged by plugging it in whenever it is parked, which is not possible for a majority of people. And if you do have access to a charging port, BEV is a much better choice which leaves a plugin hybrid exactly nowhere.

Strong hybrids do not have this problem. They are just highly efficient ICE cars.


The access to the power port to charge where you park is the problem and like I said, if you do have access to a power port a BEV is ideal and it wont need to be charged as often as a plugin either. And unlike a plugin hybrid, a BEV will come also with some sort of DC fast charging, crucial when doing longer distances. A plugin hybrid will become a liability as soon as you exhaust the battery range and you cannot fast charge most of them either.


This post is a sample size of exactly one. Camry Hybrid's are dime a dozen in Melbourne and they get between 5 to 5.5l/100 quite easily.

I think I have made my point. Peace out.

Sir, we are talking about Cars available in India, running in Indian cities, under Indian conditions, using Indian energy bought using Indian money. 🙏