[Heisenberg_ad]

I used to own a Skoda octavia 1.9 tdi 2007.
It was built to last and everything you touch felt strong and robust. Skoda and vw were the brands that introduced mass market indians to quality. They were go to brands for the ones who didnt want to spend on 3 big germans but wanted 80% of the quality, luxury and driving pleasure. The only other car that felt equally good was my cousin's innova crysta IMO.

Sold my octavia after using for 10 years and 200k kms in 2017 and bought skoda rapid 1.5 dsg.
Again, a very good car to drive and own. But i felt a bit of a drop in terms of longevity. Ofcourse it was a segment down so it cant feel as good as the good old octavia. But it didnt feel sturdy like the old fabia.

Come 2022, and i test drove slavia and kushaq. Great machines, amazing features, loved to drive. Very quick acceleration, etc. I dont know if i was nitpicking but somehow it didnt feel they were built to last.

Is this a result of cartelization? Like they did with light bulbs back in past? Are they deliberately not building long lasting products so people would buy again sooner? Here's a video which whould explain cartelization.

https://youtu.be/j5v8D-alAKE

Are there any solid and strong cars currently on sale like the ones in past?
If yes, please mention which ones.

Thanks

[ranjith_cbz]

'Planned obsolescence' is already a feature built into in all the products we are buying right now and cars/automobiles are no exception. Even commercial and industrial heavy equipments are built for a specific usage period and cost factor. You might have heard it many a times that 'they aren't building like they used to'. Gone are the days where our kids can inherit some of our personal belongings like cars, bikes etc except our immovable assets.

This is not just due to cartelization but the general trend is consumerism where in we want the most stylish, trendy product at the cheapest price point, use/abuse it and move onto the next trendy thing. Customer don't want to see holding some outdated piece of product in this social media influenced times of ours. Corporates are just adopting, evolving and further propagating this trend.

Lately there has been some awareness to such hyper consumerism such as fast fashion, non-repairability of gadgets etc and their effect on global warming or climate change. Amidst all this there is a resurgence of certain product categories like 'buy it for life' and 'built like a tank' etc.

[DCEite]

Well, I wouldn't say that its exactly cartelization.

We must understand that car companies need to take care of profit margins and using lighter building materials (without compromising on safety aspect) , relatively cheaper (yet long lasting) pastics, parts which are sourced locally so as to minimize total cost to manufacture.

Remember a decade back Maruti used to make Ritz which was about 1000 kgs in weight which is similar to what today's TATA's 4 star rated Tigor Sedan weighs. The sheet metal felt to heavier than the current material the company uses in its new "Heartact" platform. However, the cars like Ritz/Swift a decade ago were still unsafe. Afterall, the safety or sturdiness is not only about how heavy the car is or "reassuring thud" the doors have, but a combination of factors like passive/active safety features, positioning of crumple zones, number of airbags etc.

Whereas the Skoda/VW group's 2.0 cars have proven to be as safe (perhaps more safe) than the 1.0 versions (a.la Polo) if we go purely by NCAP/GNCAP results, even thought the materials don't feel as solid and the cars don't carry that much weight.

And regarding engines, I think any mass market car currently on sale in India, can easily do 1.5 L - 2 L kms (petrol engined) easily and longevity is not an issue from the engine/gearbox and other mechanical/electrical component's perspective. Its just that the plastic parts and rusting which is major cause for concern, but if one is careful with regular maintanence it's not a big issue.

[shankar.balan]

Talking of ‘strong cars’ and ‘long lasting’ cars.
There is plenty of evidence showing that modern cars at least from the 1980’s onwards tend to last for years and years and years even with relatively minimal care.
Most hill stations in India are rife with ancient but well kept Mahindras. Bombay was rife till recently with ancient but well kept Fiats till they were legislated out.

I think this whole ‘planned obsolescence’ and ‘replacement oriented economy’ is a wicked waste. And it seems to be the only Tune the Piper is playing now, to the exclusion of all other tunes. All in the false name of ‘emission control’.

[VKumar]

Something Robust, Precise! The gun buying scene from John Wick Chapter 2 is what comes to the mind when you read the title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIalODmFrZk

That said, the answer to this question lies in the Land of Rising Sun.

Anything with a Toyota logo

[Heisenberg_ad]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Remember a decade back Maruti used to make Ritz which was about 1000 kgs in weight which is similar to what today's TATA's 4 star rated Tigor Sedan weighs. The sheet metal felt to heavier than the current material the company uses in its new "Heartact" platform. However, the cars like Ritz/Swift a decade ago were still unsafe. Afterall, the safety or sturdiness is not only about how heavy the car is or "reassuring thud" the doors have, but a combination of factors like passive/active safety features, positioning of crumple zones, number of airbags etc.

Well, i agree and thanks for the perspective.
I'm aware that most modern cars dont compromise on safety due to government norms and standards. I'm not concerned about that. My whole point is, will they last as long as the old cars? For example will the innova hycross be as robust as the crysta?

[saket77]

What would you do with 'long lasting cars' when Govt is hell bent on scrapping them after 10 or 15 years?
On a light note, it will be better to have a car that will fall apart anyway in 15 years

[DicKy]

IMHO, today's cars are in two categories.

1. The body and materials used are super high quality and will stand the test of time, but the underlying mechanicals and electronics are super complex and will make most people want to get rid off the vehicle when even a small problem arises.

2. The underlying mechanicals and electronics are super reliable and will last long, but the materials used and body will start falling apart or show its age as the years pass.

Even if there are vehicles that have both high quality body, materials and mechanicals that last long, they will be either expensive or not environmental friendly (read less fuel economy or greater emissions) or not be fun.

I really don't know about luxury cars above 50 lakhs, but have anyone felt that cars before the 2000s were more better built? Like the body sheetmetal and interior materials/plastic quality. More specifically Mercedes made before mid 90s and Japanese vehicles made before the early 2000s?

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

Most hill stations in India are rife with ancient but well kept Mahindras. Bombay was rife till recently with ancient but well kept Fiats till they were legislated out.

Have to respectfully disagree. The license raj era vehicles can be kept running, but at what cost? How many would be factory spec? Even brand new, their quality levels were horrible. I can only say since I grew up with Hiaces and Hiluxes from the late 70s that felt factory fresh even in the early 2010s.

[Heisenberg_ad]

Originally Posted by saket77

What would you do with 'long lasting cars' when Govt is hell bent on scrapping them after 10 or 15 years?

That's even worse considering the prices of new vehicles currently. The resale value of mainstream cars would drop like they do with luxury cars. Financially then it doesn't make sense to buy new cars for now I think.

Originally Posted by DicKy

IMHO, today's cars are in two categories.

Can you give examples of cars in both categories?

[DivyanshuDiv]

I see things from another perspective, when we talk about robust long lasting cars. Of course, the essentials are already covered by other folks, so I'm adding my two cents.

The more of electronics, the obsolete the product becomes, eventually. Take an example of infotainment systems - for how long can they support Android/CarPlay/Bluetooth/WIFI's new versions ? And for how long the OEM will supply updates. Even retrofit will become quite difficult with new design languages(not talking about BMWs. ) You see, the new generation LED lights which have visibilities issues for the masses and yet for many it is impossible to find a worthy upgrade. Then you have connected tech, which are still running with 4G, whereas 5G will be quite prominent in near future. And how could you forget the emission requirements, new engines, safety tech, and the list goes on and on. And what about the shift to EVs ?

So in today's world, robust and long lasting car is more of a myth, in a nut-shell. Of course, metal and material are the getting expensive and thin but that is how these brands are surviving in our market.

May be, the time for evolutions will cease, and a revolution will come with new machines running on next-generation fuels, and hot swappable components. Until then, we have to wait for some robust and long lasting cars.

Div

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Have to respectfully disagree. The license raj era vehicles can be kept running, but at what cost? How many would be factory spec? Even brand new, their quality levels were horrible. I can only say since I grew up with Hiaces and Hiluxes from the late 70s that felt factory fresh even in the early 2010s.

My 8 year old Gypsy is in Perfect Factory stock condition. My 10 year old Mini is also in perfect condition. Both very carefully maintained. Cars like these are not necessarily just exceptions.

My point is that these ‘draconian one-size-fits-all’ rules serve no one. It is idiotic and wasteful to have such blanket fiats and bans and ‘fatwas’ against ‘senior privately owned cars’.

We also have to evolve our own MOT inspection like they have in England. And we have to strictly enforce that.

“Je Suis Ecolo!”

[d.j]

I think it’s part technology and a bigger byproduct part of the GDP function, as economies of this world we do over synthesize the importance of GDP as a function and that sure brings in lot of zero-sum value things as well. Difficult to pick a side or say kind cartelization

Regards/DJ

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg_ad

Well, i agree and thanks for the perspective.
I'm aware that most modern cars dont compromise on safety due to government norms and standards. I'm not concerned about that. My whole point is, will they last as long as the old cars? For example will the innova hycross be as robust as the crysta?

I think the question "will they last as long as the old cars" itself is obsolete.

With more states adapting NGT guidlines and vehicle life restricted to 10 years in case of diesel and 15 years in case of Petrol (atleast in NCR and perhaps WB ?), it doesn't really matter if the cars today are as long lasting. Any car will last 15 years with around 2,00,000 kms on the ODO provided its not a lemon.

The more prudent question today would be, as we move to an era of Electric vehicles -> What is the life of the battery and how long the new battery last and what would be its replacement costs.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg_ad

That's even worse considering the prices of new vehicles currently. The resale value of mainstream cars would drop like they do with luxury cars. Financially then it doesn't make sense to buy new cars for now I think.

Most cars made these days will last trouble free and with less maintenance for longer than what was the case earlier. Plenty of R&D, precise manufacturing of components etc.

Demand \ Supply situation will exist till the number of cars per citizen in the country reaches a certain level, right now its very low and growing, it will continue to grow for a long time - Mainstream cars will always keep their value as they are more useful and affordable to maintain.

Financially car is an expense, it will always make sense to keep the money than spend it - but that does not mean it is correct.

You end up in a nice expressway with a 120 kmph speed limit and then realize that your vehicle cannot keep up anymore. So there goes your interest in going anywhere - Now look at a car as a tool to achieve something, now you pay for the best tool you can afford and do not worry more about the economics of it.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Heisenberg_ad

Can you give examples of cars in both categories?

The first category would be the top luxury cars. S class, 7 series et al

Second caregory would be most reliable affordable cars. Something like most Marutis, City, Etios. Not saying their bodies will fall apart, but stuff like bumpers are wafer thin, sheet metal gets dented easily, interior plastics start rattling, rubber bits wear off.