[SLK]

Sorry for back to back posts, but see these, makes sense to me.

https://www.vandentpro.com/factory-p...ge%20of%20150F.

Quote from the above link

"Strength and Adhesion
Factory paint has the best strength and adhesion, because factory painted topcoat is cured at a higher temperature. In factory the curing temp is in the range of 350F. Conversely, aftermarket paint is cured at most in the range of 150F. The higher the temperature means more chemical cross-linking can happen in the topcoat. The more cross-linking reaction means more strength of the clearcoat and better adhesion. Chip resistance is far better with factory paint than aftermarket. "

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/what-...al-wayne-riyo/

Quote from the above link

The first point, the most obvious difference is that the original paint is a high-temperature paint, baking at least 130 degrees Celsius, the adhesion of the paint, or the firmness of the car paint is relatively high; while the refinish paint used for touch-up is usually The baking temperature is only about 80 degrees Celsius, and the adhesion of the coating is naturally poor.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by vedirah

Kedrock, may I ask what's the rationale behind this toxic culture? In my management books, this is very wrong. If an employee makes a mistake it should be treated as the company's mistake and not an individual's mistake. Of course, it is useful to find the root cause of the mistake and eliminate that. But penalizing employees monetarily means embracing a culture of secrecy within the company. Hope your company realises this and makes necessary changes. Is this how most dealerships work?

I'm confused about your views on accountability/responsibility. If the person who caused the damage is not accountable, why is the dealer being applied different standards? To the customer he is, but his own employee is not? If they hire people and start adding buffers to account for all the damage from people screwing up despite all processes and rules because of ignorance or carelessness, will that be sustainable? I understand that we need to be considerate etc, but i have a very low opinion of the mores of us Indians (and this includes myself)

[vedirah]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

I'm confused about your views on accountability/responsibility. If the person who caused the damage is not accountable, why is the dealer being applied different standards? To the customer he is, but his own employee is not? If they hire people and start adding buffers to account for all the damage from people screwing up despite all processes and rules because of ignorance or carelessness, will that be sustainable? I understand that we need to be considerate etc, but i have a very low opinion of the mores of us Indians (and this includes myself)

If an employee did something wrong, the company is to blame. Here's why - if a company has standardised a set of processes, practices and training methodology then the expectation is that the employees will stick to processes and defects will be minimised. However, if a company finds that its employees are not sticking to the standardised processes (sometimes observed repetitively), then the company has to determine the root cause, revisit training methods, look into where the processes are failing etc to determine why the incident happened. This has to be the first step.

If it is found that the employee did something wrong by spite, then it seems reasonable to penalise the employee. However if it is found that something happened accidentally, then the company has to look into where things went wrong and what can be done to improve. That's my view of things from my own corporate experience. Feel free to disagree! After all, no two managers are the same.

[AjayJoshuaN]

The dealership can be fitted with wall protector bumper guards I guess, to mitigate the risk of scratches and dents to a good extent.
E.g. https://www.amazon.in/Garage-Wall-Protector-Bumper-Guards/dp/B08BYBPD19

[d.j]

Actually, I feel all the car companies should have an established protocol for such incidents - like car manuals or training programs on what to do when this happens, this simply can’t be left among the dealer and the customer to be resolved.

Exactly like the whole of the other supply chain works, add the 5th stage of return to it, if it’s not at deliverable levels, replace or return, something like they themselves do to the OEM part suppliers, now how long has to be this return/replace cycle is again to established by the companies - train the people at shop level to repaint parts at factory quality or call it do by themselves!, who and how much to penalize Is among them, sure once established in practice they would figure out how to account for it.

Consumer by themselves don’t have to bear any onus of such a situation, he or she is entitled for what paid for, otherwise everything is just depending on time, place and certain variable factors. nor, putting workshop staff to whip is a solution, mistakes do happen, every industry!

Regards/DJ

[Lobogris]

The best solution is to improve training and discipline in the staff and have increased supervision. I have driven with several drivers from different dealerships and all of them drive in a shockingly cavalier, dangerous and careless manner. I am surprised that they don’t get into a lot of accidents. The way they handle new and used vehicles given for servicing is atrocious. Similarly, a lot of workers mishandle customer vehicles including leaving dirty grease marks all over the roof liners, seats and doors. This shows a basic lack of respect and a lack of concern when handling expensive vehicles. Similar carelessness is likely when loading, unloading, parking and handling new vehicles. This needs to be addressed. Get higher caliber staff. Train them on these aspects and supervise their work. This would help in reducing damages to customer vehicles.

[Beingtraveler]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

The best solution is to improve training and discipline in the staff and have increased supervision. I have driven with several drivers from different dealerships and all of them drive in a shockingly cavalier, dangerous and careless manner. I am surprised that they don’t get into a lot of accidents. The way they handle new and used vehicles given for servicing is atrocious. Similarly, a lot of workers mishandle customer vehicles including leaving dirty grease marks all over the roof liners, seats and doors. This shows a basic lack of respect

True that and I've been a victim. For 3rd service of my S-cross Zeta Petrol 1.5 - Granite grey, 2021 model, I specifically chose a weekday to avoid weekend rush. I already had a booked appointment for 9am slot, but a day before I got the call from service centre that they open up at 8am. Since I was free, I reached service centre at 8.15am sharp. Mine was the third car in queue and the only car out of other two that came for oil change. The other two were there for 2nd free service that is general checkup and washing only. I was hoping I would get free pretty early. I was observing everything around and noticed few cars (Swifts and Balenos mostly) being driven very carelessly and at high speed in initial gears and then sudden braking to put them at halt. But then it was all nightmare there afterwards. It was already 10am and cleaning guys were onto final touch, cleaning and polishing in and out. The car was out from washing at 10.30am and then I noticed something white shining at rear left door. Earlier I thought it must be dirt or polish which is yet to be cleaned. As I went closer, I noticed they were few scratches. Not very deep, but still they could be felt if I moved my nail against them.

I was pretty furious since I was able to protect my car from all the scratches from past one year, my car only had one scratch over the bumper which was also almost non-visible. Plus a scratch which is not even your mistake and moreover you get it from service centre.

I don't know how it happened, when it happened but it did happen at the service centre. I asked my SA and he tried to shrug it off but then I made him check the pics that he took while taking the custody of the vehicle. He offered rubbing and polishing etc. which did help to subside the visibility. Moreover, he said that don't raise a complain as 3k Rs. will be deducted from his monthly salary. Ofcourse, I would not want that, but if SA is so worried about his money, should they not be worried about other people's property the same way? If it's impacting them, they are concerned but how they're treating vehicles that come for service is all casual attitude and no one gives a damn.



That's a different topic all together, but the point is - why these service centre guys drive other's vehicle so rashly? What is the protocol? Who is conducting their trainings? Who is ensuring safety of the vehicles?

In my case, I did raise the complain after few days, after giving it a lot of thought that if I won't complain, this attitude will be continued and as a consumer we must raise our voice instead of letting go attitude.

[warbug]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Could you explain what sort of paint defects you are talking about? Like actual defects straight from the factory or damage incurred during transport?

First of all, why shouldn't it be? Factory finish is factory finish. When you go to the apple store to buy a new iPhone, will you take the display piece or want a sealed box? If you are to accept anything other than a sealed unit, you would ask for a discount right?

1. Honestly not an Apple 2 Apple here, the logistics involved in moving a car vs an iphone are absurdly incomparable.

2. I have electronic stores and given the above comparison if there is an issue that is not a factory defect (being fair to the manufacturer) in this case it’s better to loose a customer trying to take advantage of a situation that was in nobody’s control (logistics).

[gungax]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

I request you to share your perspective on the topic.

Now, as we are delivering a new car we expect the prospect to treat the car as new only but almost all the times prospect demand a huge discount/ different car. On this forum also, almost everyone who's been delivered a repainted car treats the new car as a lemon/ used/ defective one. Many a times the dealer is labelled as fraud.

As a dealer my responsibility is to deliver a brand new car. If any defect in paint is observed in PDI we rectify the same before delivery.

So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?

Need your perspective to handle such queries in a better way to ensure customer satisfaction while not digging a whole into the pocket.

Regards

Thank you for your honesty and perspective.

As a carrier of cars, I wish I could work for whichever company cars you sell. I would test 0-100 Kmph times of all the new cars without any consequence.

On a more serious note, let me tell you the general requirement for us by manufacture (Varies between manufactures):

1. Dent, especially roof dent - Total lost and carrier pays full value.
2. Broken windshield front or back - 50% loss of the car value, other 50% carrier pays.
3. Broken lights / side glass - Replaced back in factory/ or at dealership on carrier account.
4. Scratch/ stain to top transparent coat - Carrier re-polishes before delivery
5. Scratch/ stain to underlying paint - Percentage of loss from full value of the car based on extent of scratch and payed by carrier.
6. To maintain good faith with customer (manufacturer), carrier sometimes pay full value of the damaged car in all above conditions and more as compensation.

If the responsibility of the cars reaching your dealership is by the manufacture then it is clearly out of your hands and you have to work with what you get.
However, if dealership is responsible for the cars from factory to showroom - then any negativity coming to you from customer is justified.

[Habanero City]

I was a innocent victim of such repainted car and would like to share my experience.
Way back in 2002 when I bought my first car, knowledge of PDI was very limited.
Yet I did some checks with a known person and could not find anything.
The car was kept inside the showroom (for demonstration) and was under bright lights and so painting defect was not easliy visible.

However after 2 weeks while cleaning the car, I noticed a paint patch clearly visible in the driver door.
I took it up with the dealer and the area office representatives of the car company and requested for factory painted door as replacement.
This was denied and I was offered complete repainting of the door by the dealer as the only resolution.

Since I knew that such repainting would result in more problems than the present, and also I thought in case of any further damage or scratches I can get this painted later.
So I took it in writing that I can get the repainting done any time later.
Fortunately for me I did not have to get the door repainted and I lived with the defect and the comfort letter for 17 years until the car was sold.

[silverado]

The dealer needs to understand for some people buying a car is a major decision both financially and emotionally. In such a scenario you would expect a sealed 100% product without any defects.

Some people maybe buying their car for the first time, for them is a special purchase.

Hence if there are any issues , i believe that particular part if replaceable with factory coloured one should be replaced, rather than repainted. End user should be kept in loop at all times to maintain transperancy ( I know this bit might be difficult )

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

...
Now, as we are delivering a new car we expect the prospect to treat the car as new only but almost all the times prospect demand a huge discount/ different car.
...

Originally Posted by Kedrock

...
So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?
..

Almost all used car dealers have started measuring paint thickness to identify repainted panels. The resale value takes a hit if the paint thickness is different at various panels

If you're able to repaint/ finish the car to factory specs - paint matching & finish, consistency of paint thickness across panels, no visible (even under a magnifying lens) aberration - then selling the car as absolutely new without discounts (or the prevailing norm) is perfectly fine.

But if the above is not met, yet the car is sold off as an equivalent to an "untouched, factory finish" is when trouble begins.

Most of us understand that a dealer PDI is just that - an inspection to ensure a fault/ damage-free vehicle. But when there is a damage, you should have the transparency to be upfront about it to the prospective customers, and compensate him for the eventual resale value drop.

[Cresterk]

To you, it is just another car out of the hundreds that you sell monthly. To your workers too it is just another car out of the hundreds they deal with every week and they treat it the same way. Just another piece of inventory to be shoved around so they can get the job done as quick as possible and move on to the next one. None of you will lose any sleep if you pass off a repaired car or even a lemon to some poor unsuspecting car buyer. To us, it is OUR car that costs quite a lot of money and will be with us for years. It is not like purchasing a pair of chappals where you can throw it away and buy another one if it turns out to be defective or damaged later. We are the ones who have to live with it, whether it is good or bad. Even if we try to sell it off, repainted panels are easily spotted and calls the entire history of the car into question.

Now I know, it's a business and what matters most is your bottom line. You want to move your inventory as quick as possible. You want to sell as many cars as possible as quick as possible and all your employees have targets they are trying to meet. If you shave off 1-2 mins per car, that cumulatively adds up and you can maybe squeeze in another car or two extra at the end of the day. But with all such practices, they come with increased risks that you must factor in as well. For example: you can shave off 5 mins on your daily commute by driving fast and rash but the one day you have an accident, you will lose hours.

The same way, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can probably save money by underpaying staff/not training them properly/ making them do things as fast as possible. However, the one day that things go wrong, you had better have saved up enough money to fix whatever mess they make.

Proactively let the customer know that you messed up and show them the extent of the damages before you try to cover it up.
Provide them the option to get another new car from the get go or atleast throw in extended warranty, service packages or a discount to sweeten the deal if you really want them to take delivery of the damaged car. If they don't, well it shouldn't be too hard to sell a brand new car, repaired or not if you are offering a decent discount and ready delivery to some other party.

[rjainv]

5 pages worth of posts, and general sentiment is that why should a customer settle for anything less then the factory finish car he is paying for.

Putting myself as a customer I agree with the stance. If two cars are being sold for same price, one with factory finish, and second with dealer level repair which might be as good (?) as first car to a naked eye, why would I take the second car for same price as first one.


However I think OP wanted others to put themselves in Dealer's shoes for a moment and have people comment from that perspective - focussing on business sustainability.


So making an attempt at that.


As per below article, dealer margin is less than 5%.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.91w...lained%3famp=1


It's widely accepted that dealer's don't make money on sale of car, instead their return is in the servicing the car for its life.

Throwing up some numbers (I might be way off as I am not a dealer)
Let's say car avg price is 10L, dealer is able to sell 100 cars in a month.
Dealer takes utmost care but even after that there is 1 car in a month that gets damaged during handling and needs repairs.

Margin (not profit) per car is 4%, so that's Rs 40K. So a monthly margin on cars of Rs 40L.
Now a dealer will have lot of expenditures which I don't know how to estimate or put a number to figure out his net profit.

But if he has to give a discount of Rs 50K on 1 car in 100 because of damage, his monthly margin reduces from 40L to 39.5L.

That should not be a huge deal.

So question back to OP - why does this burn a hole in your pocket?

Do customers demand much more than 5% discount ? Or the expenditures are almost as high as margin to make even this amount as overall loss?
Or is 1 in 100 too low a number and actual damage percentage is higher?

[Guna]

I believe that following issues can take place with a repainted door:

• Colours will never match 100%. Trained eye can spot it
• There is no guarantee on the durability compared to the factory paint.
• Beadings, plastic trim etc may suffer once you remove and fix them back
• Door hinge torquing/alignment will never be the same