[lordrayden]

Lets fast forward a few years and consider two possible scenarios.

Scenario-1: Though financially difficult, you sold the Harrier years ago. Given how much more choice you had in 2022/23 compared to 2019, you bought a nice reliable but still fun to drive car. You have enjoyed tens of thousands of miles on it and made many fond memories with it. Once in a while you think back about the bad experience with your previous car but like most bad experiences in life, time had lessened its emotional sting. It’s just a memory now. You wish you could have made Tata motors pay for what they did. But then you remember a quote from Sun Tzu, "He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight" and think, perhaps it was good I didn't pick that fight.

Scenario-2: You filed a case against Tata motors a few years ago. Given how pathetic our legal system is, there is a very good chance that it’s still going on. You have sunk in a decent amount of money and time in it. Plus it had drained you mentally. Since you presumably can't sell the darn thing due to the ongoing case, you still have that car with you. And everyday it reminds you of all the pain you went through and are still going through.

Hope you take a decision that makes you happy in the long run.

[drsarat4u]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I own a "LEMON" Tata Harrier purchased in 2019 December. Registered in Jan 2020. Manufactured in May 2019. Few of the reasons why I call it a "LEMON" is due to the following.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ernatives.html (Unhappy Tata Harrier owner | Looking for advice & alternatives)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...am-fed-up.html (Clutch pedal problem with my Tata Harrier | 3rd time now & I am fed up)

The car is now around 48K on the odo. Some of the issues like steering noise, belt noise, left pulling, and rattles, are not fixed yet in spite of multiple visits, while the clutch issue was given a temporary fix (sleeve cover over the fluid hose) as mentioned in the other thread. Also, some of the other (not mentioned) issues are - rusting at multiple locations, brake noise, etc.

Now, I have come to the mindset about the situation I am in, that, I will have to live with a defective product until I am ready enough to let go of the car with an appropriate replacement - I will not be ready at least for another few years due to other financial commitments (The EMI is still running). So, I am thinking to take the legal route based on a pursual from a couple of my friends. So please advise me on the following.

1. Even though I have made up my mind to continue with this LEMON car, I am using this legal route as the last resort so that I don't regret later that I did not even try.
2. Is my understanding correct that all the processes are online now and we can do it all by ourselves?
3. Is this the right portal to proceed further - https://edaakhil.nic.in/edaakhil/faces/index.xhtml. If not, what is the right one?
4. Can anyone guide and help me on taking this forward - for eg - the claim value, opponent (Dealer or Tata Motors), etc?
5. What will be the outcome if I pursue this? - Best case scenario, worst case scenario, in-between scenario?
6. Is my understanding correct that the cost incurred will be minimal (a couple of thousand) if I do it online?
7. Is there anything else that I should know or follow before I proceed further?
8. Some of my friends told me about stories where it took only a few (6-7) months for the final verdict whatever the outcome. I was thinking that it will take many years to know the final verdict. What is the reality?

Hi, i would like to share my experience with Marutiz Dzire AGS Vxi 2018 model which i own and had few issues which made me pursue legal option. But i would like to highlight the point that my issue started within 15 days of taking delivery. The problem was with the AGS which was very laggy and often doesnt do gear shifts at the appropriate speeds. Dealer was reluctant to change the car which i demanded as it was brand new and the problem could not be rectified even after the RM South India of Maruti got involved. Then i approached my friend who is a lawyer and made a formal case and legal notices were sent to both dealer and maruti india. Every person including the dealer to RM were mentioned in the notice. After 1 month, they offered out of court settlement by changing the entire AGS system free of cost. They also offered 20k worth free accessories and increasing the number of free services to 5 (instead of 3). After much deliberation i accepted the settlement (as per my lawyer friend advice). From then on i faced no issues absolutely. Of course my scenario is totally different and the problem occurred in the early warranty period. I just wanted to share the experience with the legal aspect.

My suggestions: If u think of going legally, u need to have everything documented. If possible audio recording of all conversations ( in my case with the RM and dealer). I used to take video recording of the workshop manager and dealer after telling them im recording. Also u need to have receipts of all the items u spent for the car from the dealer. There should not be any after market accessories installed (particularly those connecting the electrical wiring or the battery). Even though it may not have any impact on the actual problem, the dealer simply blames them and wastes our time. Please take a lawyer and talk to dealer before pressing legal charges as that may soften the rigidity of the dealer and may find an amicable solution.

Like most senior BHPians say, legal battle is time consuming, money consuming and most importantly leaves no mental peace. So get ready for all stupid calls from irrelevant people from dealer to ask about the problem.

[sabi_swat]

Hi, I am Delhi based corporate lawyer and handled most consumer related cases. I suggest you go legal if you are not satisfied with the manufacturer commitment. Please go through following procedure:

1. Check your warranty document and ascertain what is covered and what's not.
2. Draft an email and jot down all issues which is covered under warranty along with demand to rectify all defects or replacement car. Give a timeline of fifteen days and also mention you will seek legal option if the demand are not met.
3. If nothing happen within fifteen days or your issue isn't rectified, follow up with them. If the issue keep on persisting, refer point 4.
4. Consult a lawyer and send them a proper legal notice with 30 days compensation timeline. Although most popular corporations try to mediate the matter within avoiding the court but still be ready for case filing in the court.
5. Go to national consumer forum since your amount in damages will be more than five lac plus. Your lawyer will do the rest.

IMP: MAKE SURE YOU MAINTAIN A RECORD OF EVERY COMMUNICATION WITH THE DEALER/MANUFACTURER WHETHER IN THE FORM OF PAPER DOCUMENTS, EMAIL, MESSAGES, CALL RECORDING, TESTIMONY,CAMERA FOOTAGE ETC AT EVERY STAGE.

With regard to your query, the case will be files against both Dealer and manufacturer TATA.

[som9729]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Option 1 - done multiple times. Overall, in the last 2 years and 10 months of ownerhsip, my car was there in the workshop for approximately 1.5-2 months in total.

Option 3 - I cannot afford an appropriate replacement even though the balance loan amount is lower than the resale value. Total spend will be approx. 27L (including the loan interest, maintenance, and a few cosmetic spending) for the last 4 years, and say the resale value will be (worst case scenario) 10L, I still lose 17 lakhs for no reason, no tax saving, and most significant is that I don't have a car to use.

You've tried to get it repaired and there was no reoslution.
You've done your best.

Now Two options->
1) As mentioned in the drsarat4u's above post, the legal route.
Get your position evaluated by a competent lawyer, and decide if its even worth it.
The lawyer will look at the documentation (whatsapp/bills/emails etc) that you have and tell you if you actually have a case or not.

Sending legal notices is easy, and if you're lucky, then you might be able to resolve your issue at this stage itself.
After sending the legal notices, I personally would not file a case, because our legal system is very very very slow!

That brings us to option #2:

2) Now, cut your losses & buy a slightly lower-budget car and move on with your life.

Its not worth getting entangled with our legal system.
Also bear in mind, unlike you, the dealer will have a bigger legal budget & TATA will have a dedicated legal dept.

It becomes very easy for them to make you run around (even if the facts supports you)

I've owned two indigos from TATA, and both were lemons.
After that I strictly avoid them!

I'd prefer a Toyota/M&M/Hyundai.

[Aravind_M92]

Your case will be under consumer court I believe. And you've purchased your car in 2019. I believe any consumer court case holds valid if filed within 2 years of purchase. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Livnletcarsliv]

I have registered a complaint with the National Consumer Helpline. My next step is to register a complaint on https://edaakhil.nic.in/edaakhil/
I am purely pursuing this just for reason that I don't want to leave any stones unturned. I don't have a lot of expectations through this.

A request you everyone - please connect me to any lawyers in Chennai.

[Livnletcarsliv]

I believe that one of the main reasons why these product companies take customers for a ride is poor or insufficient consumer protection laws and their enforcement. In other countries, while there are strong consumer protection laws, they are also strictly enforced.

What I am doing now is probably a stepping stone. If only we as consumers, at least start to raise against these brands by even registering the complaints and conerns, we can definitely see a change in - laws, its enforcement, and also the attitude of the product companies towards customers.

I am planning take this up for as long as possible and as much as I can - what ever may be the outcome. This may inspire/guide more and more consumers to take appropriate action against these corporates. After all, we live in India - Fight for the Right.

[9890558353]

Think through the whole episode again before taking a legal action and filing a case. Take a hit and sell the car. The expense, time and energy of fighting a court case is just too much for this specific case. As you are filing a case after 3 years, there would be enough loop holes for the other lawyer to exploit. So you do not have any guarantee for winning this.

We'll assume you paid 20 lakhs for the car. Now its depreciated price is 16 lakhs. And if you can sell that for 13. The hit or loss is only 3 lakhs. If you think 3 lakhs are worth more than the time, money, and energy you need to fight this case + the frustration of driving the same car for the duration of the case, then you should fight this case.

[Vibhanshu]

Goddam Tata! There isn't 1 week that a painful story of Tata Harrier"s Owner is not on the home page of Team Bhp. Infact, Harrier has now crossed all limits of customer dissatisfaction. More than all other manufacturers combined.

My suggestion to OP, contact a competent lawyer. They can guide you for the process. Contrary to what one may believe, you will/can a good resolution from consumer/criminal court.

All the best!

[soarersc300]

It's quite painful to hear about your experience. Just thinking financially here given that you have a 50k run 3 year old SUV why don't you go for a lateral move? Sell the Tata and buy a similar car (XUV 500, MG Hector, Hexa etc) with similar vintage (3 years 50k old).

This way you get almost the same car with no financial loss and get rid of the monkey off your back!

All the best with whichever choice you make.

[Sran]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I am planning take this up for as long as possible and as much as I can - what ever may be the outcome. This may inspire/guide more and more consumers to take appropriate action against these corporates. After all, we live in India - Fight for the Right.

Very apt response. One can not just sit back and let others exploit. Also through RTI find out how many cases are filed against Tata motors in comparison to other manufacturers to show that they have high number/percentage of complaints. Find out who manufactures the defective parts and its quality comparison to its peers regarding faults. Tata has a long list of problems and one of that is to give dealerships to only "old money", who have experience of other businesses rather than to give it to enterprising persons who have money and zeal and that makes the dealership owners hot- headed and unfriendly. Tata basically assembles Harrier and Safari with parts from all over, R&D is pretty much limited to frames and body shell and even then they can not get the assembly right. Huge design flaw. This is what they get when they underpay engineers and bank only on "job security" they provide.

Off topic- We will very soon hear the same deteriorating quality of made in India Iphones. Tata has chosen 40,000 women only workers. Even after making home appliances for 70 years, for technology Tata had to form JV with a turkish company Beko. Mr. Mistry had so much vision for Tata, alas it wasn't meant to be.

[adwaith]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I own a "LEMON".......is the reality?

Quite a bit of your queries have been answered so I will touch upon only certain parts.

First of all, you're well within Limitation. Section 69 of the Consumer Protection Act, 2019(hereafter the CPA) lays down that 2 years is the limitation to try a matter from the date the cause of action first arose or in case there are multiple causes of action, then it would be the day from which the first cause of action first arose. Owing to the pandemic, the Supreme Court extended limitation. You don't even have to rely on condonation of delay. The period from 15.03.2021 until 28.02.2022 does not count towards limitation.

The relevant judgement is attached.

In re Limitiation.pdf

Sections 34, 47 and 58 of the CPA lays down the jurisdiction, both pecuniary and territorial of the District, State and National Commissions, respectively. You may institute proceedings in Chennai if that is where you reside or work.

Now as for pecuniary jurisdiction the government enacted The Consumer Protection (Jurisdiction of the District Commission, the State Commission and the National Commission) Rules, 2021 and amended the pecuniary jurisdictions of the Commissions and therefore the District Commission has jurisdiction in matters of up to ₹50, up to ₹2 crores for the State Commission and anything above falls into the jurisdiction of the National Commission. In your case the jurisdiction should be with District Commission in Chennai.

The new redressal mechanism was envisaged to enable individuals to approach the fora themselves, but it is advisable to seek help of either a consumer association or of a lawyer. Consumer associations might work out cheaper. However, if you do need a lawyer in Chennai, I do have friends in the fraternity who practice there, and I can put you in touch. In case you plan to institute proceedings in Coimbatore since you bought your car there, I can help find lawyers there as well. While I do not know of many from Coimbatore personally, considering that it is a neighbouring district I’m sure my father and grandfather can refer somebody. Do get in touch.

Now onto what you should do.

@sabi_swat has laid things out quite properly here (Taking the legal route against Tata Motors for my problematic Harrier | Please guide me)

I will however politely disagree with point number 5 of his post.

In the legal notice detail the issues you have faced, when you first noticed the said issues, when and how you intimated the dealer and the company, what the response was, what was done to remedy the situation and so on with a proper timeline. When you seek compensation, add in additional claims for mental agony etc.

They will reply, most likely denying all your claims. You can institute proceedings thereafter in the appropriate forum. Please ensure that you do these expeditiously so that you are within limitation. Thereafter the consumer association or lawyer can guide you, but if you have any doubts or trouble, please feel free to reach out.

3. Is this the right portal to proceed further - https://edaakhil.nic.in/edaakhil/faces/index.xhtml. If not, what is the right one?

This is the portal used by lawyers as well. In fact all of your filings will be done through this portal. However, I am hearing of issues with this portal in recent times with regards to filing a reply. But right now that is the headache of the opposite parties.

The time these proceedings take vary but these fora are pro consumer so you will get some relief. However, the companies have a lot of money so they will try to delay and frustrate but a good lawyer or consumer association will be able to help with that. The opposite side will fight tooth and nail and will keep appealing as much as possible, because it affects reputation, in addition to shelling out money.

Recently, a final year law student in Trivandrum instituted proceedings against Zomato for not delivering food ordered and then refusing to refund the amount as well. The amount was ₹362 and the compensation granted by District Commission was ₹8000 including cost of proceedings. You can read more here.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I am planning take this up for as long as possible and as much as I can - what ever may be the outcome. This may inspire/guide more and more consumers to take appropriate action against these corporates. After all, we live in India - Fight for the Right.

I admire your resolve and wish you the very best in this battle of yours. Do reach if you need any help or legal advice. I'm more than happy to help.

[One]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I am planning take this up for as long as possible and as much as I can - what ever may be the outcome. This may inspire/guide more and more consumers to take appropriate action against these corporates. After all, we live in India - Fight for the Right.

I genuinely believe this is the right course of action if you have the wherewithal. The case will neither take much of money nor your time.

The only critical part is having a reliable lawyer but also keeping your eyes open - based on my personal experiences across Consumer courts as well as regular courts, have experienced behaviour from lawyers contrary to our interests in 100% of the cases. When cases start moving in our favour, lawyers (and I mean all of them across all cases) have started various fidgeting and delaying tactics contrary to our interests which can only imply that they are being paid off.

My only suggestion is to not be too expectant about the time for resolution no matter how close you think you are and be detached from the final judgement. Those are the things that help me in my current cases where even after winning at one level (district/state/National/ Supreme Court), one has to go through all of it again at the next higher level when the opposite party appeals.

Originally Posted by adwaith

Quite a bit of your queries have been answered so I will touch upon only certain parts.

First of all, you're well within Limitation. Section 69 of the Consumer Protection Act, 2019(hereafter the CPA) lays down that 2 years is the limitation to try a matter from the date the cause of action first arose or in case there are multiple causes of action, then it would be the day from which the first cause of action first arose. Owing to the pandemic, the Supreme Court extended limitation. You don't even have to rely on condonation of delay. The period from 15.03.2021 until 28.02.2022 does not count towards limitation.

The relevant judgement is attached.


.... I do have friends in the fraternity who practice there, and I can put you in touch....I can help find lawyers there as well.....Do get in touch.


I admire your resolve and wish you the very best in this battle of yours. Do reach if you need any help or legal advice. I'm more than happy to help.

Really really appreciate this detailed and well thought out reply alongwith the help offered. With people like you, this is a better place.

[rAijin_]

This is not reason enough to go the legal route. Have you done any legal recourse before? It can be extremely frustrating, demoralizing and will lead to loss of peace of mind from the minute you receive their response.

Knowing the inefficiencies of the legal system in India, and that the manufacturer has a dedicated legal team to handle cases such as these, and you are own your own, I would strongly advise you to NOT take the legal route.

The legal route could be arduous, agonising, uncertain, time consuming and even a costly option. The defective SUV is already three years old (Dec 2019) and has done 48 K kms. The date of purchase will be relevant as it is presumed that it was being used by the owner since its date of purchase.

I can summarise it in three words:
Time.
Money.
Frustration.

When making decisions like these, you have to look at from all angles including the mistakes you made.

Point is, 3 years of timeline and with 48k kms done, the absolute situation of this problem doesn’t exist anymore and proving their fault in relative terms is going to be hell of a job. Also, to my mind the first thing the judge may question is why didn’t you turn up during these last 3 years?

People make mistakes. You learn from them and move on.

Will you really have the time, resources & patience to go through the legal process? I feel it will be quite an overhead, for minimal gains.

Think through the whole episode again before taking a legal action and filing a case. Take a hit and sell the car. The expense, time and energy of fighting a court case is just too much for this specific case. As you are filing a case after 3 years, there would be enough loop holes for the other lawyer to exploit. So you do not have any guarantee for winning this.

I have no intention to offend/blame anyone. For that reason, I've not quoted anyone and just used the statements made. Please forgive me if I crossed any line.

Unfortunately, the problem with Indian legal system is that we the consumer do not want to take the legal route. And we discourage anyone who wishes to do so.
There are many initiatives by the government about consumer rights ("Jaago Grahak Jaago") and there are many improvements done to help consumer get justice. But the system cannot be improve further if we don't Fight for our Right.
I agree that the system is not perfect. But it is not perfect in any country. The only difference is that the consumer knows their rights in those countries and are willing to fight for it.
Let's change this perception.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I am planning take this up for as long as possible and as much as I can - what ever may be the outcome. This may inspire/guide more and more consumers to take appropriate action against these corporates. After all, we live in India - Fight for the Right.

I salute you for taking the right step and wish you a very best of luck in your fight.
I absolutely agree that this thread will inspire and guide many more to take the correct action.
Just one word of caution - Be careful of what you post while the case is in court. Don't be in Contempt of court.

[EV NXT]

@OP, just so you are aware there have been other team bhp members who have taken up the matter against manufacturers legally. Check out member harishpr’s case against Skoda details of which are on this forum.

The case went on for 10 years and finally it was through an initiative by the then new MD of Skoda (Sudhir Rao - someone I know) that the matter was settled out of court. In that case, the legal machinery didn’t help even after 10 years.

Additionally you have used the car for 48,000 kms / 3 years which can be said to be more than 50% of the average ownership span in India both in terms of kms done and elapsed time and this weakens your position substantially.

The other side could claim that if there were such problems why did the customer use the car for so long? Is he trying to get back his money after using the car for 3 years and 48,000 kms?

You also need to have the determination to last long - usually the determination fades with the frustration when there is no resolution in sight even after, as in the above mentioned case, more than a decade.

Having said that, there are some areas that can be understood only with actual experience and not through reading as the brain would say “This would’nt apply in my case” giving you the confidence to start proceedings.

So, c’est la vie. And all the best.