[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Apologies didn't mean to offend you with the question and I've genuinely not kept abreast of how / where they're assembling the badge shared cars. Was not sure of certain specifics like assembly and manufacturing - so made at a single plant as well then I take it.

Which then makes me wonder - IF (big if) the assembly line/s are same and there is no enhanced capacity, how much merit is there in launching a re-branded product where the existing customer demand at Toyota is already running a 12 - 24 month wait period.

It’s the same scenario with Hyryder/Grand Vitara as well. While Hyryder has massive waiting periods, GV is available much quicker, sometimes even for ready delivery. For this model at least, bulk of the production goes to Maruti. Toyota dealers are also complicit, being unnecessary high handed and creating artificial shortages with zero accountability for booking numbers. It is openly happening with Innova HyCross, and I have no reason to assume things are any different with Hyryder.

[Venkatesh]

Maruti Suzuki’s version of the HyCross will arrive on July 5.

- Maruti premium MPV will be built by Toyota

- Will be Maruti's most expensive model

- Likely to come with strong hybrid powertrain

Source

[kadanaJ]

Originally Posted by Axe77

When I think of a purchase decision involving Toyota, one of the strong considerations is that it will be an easy to own, reliable and bullet proof, 10 - 15 year product. Will Maruti be able to also deliver on the same level of quality and reliability that comes with the Toyota (not being cynical but genuine open question). Or conversely will Toyota not be able to deliver the same attributes on its platform shared products that are sold with a T badge.

For the sake of customers, the best case outcome of course is that we get more products from both stables that represent the positive attributes of Toyota and of course that there is no dilution in the traditional strengths that drew customers to Toyota.

Strongly agree with everything you've said. Bulletproof reliability is expected from a Toyota. The fact that we still see 1st gen Innovas and Corollas on the roads are a testament to how durable their vehicles are.

I would hope for the same durability from a Suzuki that has been rebadged as a Toyota.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

It is the same damn car! Just the badging will be different, maybe the front grille as well. Think of it as Brezza vs Toyota Urban Cruiser or Grand Vitara vs Hyryder or Baleno vs Glanza. There will be zero difference in performance, efficiency, reliability etc.

The Glanza is purely a re-badged Suzuki Baleno, same for the Urban Cruiser and Brezza. I do not like these products, because I don't believe there is any Toyota DNA in them.

The Hyryder / Grand Vitara is a bit more interesting, as I believe it was jointly developed by Maruti & Toyota. The problem here is that we do not know how much input each company has had during product development. Who's QC standards are being followed during manufacturing, Maruti or Toyota's? What % has each company contributed to the Hyryder.

Would it be accurate to say that the non-hybrid Hyryder is 100% Maruti Suzuki with a Toyota badge?

Would that make the Suzuki Engage a vehicle that is 100% Toyota with a Suzuki badge?

If these 2 companies are working on jointly developing products, what quality levels can we expect from them in the future?

[tarmacnaut]

Originally Posted by kadanaJ

Who's QC standards are being followed during manufacturing, Maruti or Toyota's? What % has each company contributed to the Hyryder.


If these 2 companies are working on jointly developing products, what quality levels can we expect from them in the future?

QC(Quality Control) should not be confused with sheet metal quality. Bad QC should be gauged with how much defective products end up in customers hand.

Both Maruti and Toyota have excellent QC. Infact, Maruti is even better at QC as they sell more than 40% of the cars on the road, still very little defective products.

Bad QC examples are the Germans with their EPC and AC issues, Mahindra with their DPF, infotainment issues and Tata, well anything can go for a toss.

Ironically people end up with lemons with defects when they go with Mahindra and Tata thinking better crash rating equates better quality.Which is not true at all.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Apologies didn't mean to offend you with the question and I've genuinely not kept abreast of how / where they're assembling the badge shared cars. Was not sure of certain specifics like assembly and manufacturing - so made at a single plant as well then I take it.

Which then makes me wonder - IF (big if) the assembly line/s are same and there is no enhanced capacity, how much merit is there in launching a re-branded product where the existing customer demand at Toyota is already running a 12 - 24 month wait period.

You could probably skip the waiting line by booking the Suzuki Engage. Wait 2 years to get your hycross top model or get the same car with a suzuki badge immediately since a lot of units are now going to get diverted to Suzuki rather than the Toyota dealerships. Atleast until Engage bookings also go to a backlog.

Originally Posted by kadanaJ

The Hyryder / Grand Vitara is a bit more interesting, as I believe it was jointly developed by Maruti & Toyota. The problem here is that we do not know how much input each company has had during product development. Who's QC standards are being followed during manufacturing, Maruti or Toyota's? What % has each company contributed to the Hyryder.

Would it be accurate to say that the non-hybrid Hyryder is 100% Maruti Suzuki with a Toyota badge?

Would that make the Suzuki Engage a vehicle that is 100% Toyota with a Suzuki badge?

If these 2 companies are working on jointly developing products, what quality levels can we expect from them in the future?

The answer is already in wikipedia :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Grand_Vitara_(2022)


"The mild hybrid model, marketed as "Smart Hybrid" by Suzuki and "NeoDrive" by Toyota, uses Suzuki's 1.5-liter K15C four-cylinder engine and the Smart Hybrid system developed by Suzuki. For the strong hybrid model, Suzuki incorporated the Toyota Hybrid System to the vehicle (marketed as "Intelligent Electric Hybrid" by Suzuki), which includes Toyota's 1.5-liter M15D-FXE three-cylinder engine similar to the XP210 series Toyota Yaris / Yaris Cross. This version is only available in India. Both engines met the Bharat Stage VI (BS-VI) emission standards."


"The vehicle was developed by Suzuki using the Global C platform shared with the SX4 S-Cross and the Vitara."

"Production of both models started in August 2022 at Toyota Kirloskar Motor's second plant in Bidadi"

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Which then makes me wonder - IF (big if) the assembly line/s are same and there is no enhanced capacity, how much merit is there in launching a re-branded product where the existing customer demand at Toyota is already running a 12 - 24 month wait period.

This is a jugaad to move maruti upmarket with next to no investment. Suzuki doesn't have the technical prowess to make bigger cars and neither are they interested in spending money for the same. So a sticker job on Toyotas is what they have come up with. In Europe they already have rebadged Toyota's being sold from Suzuki showrooms, albeit no one is buying them. Maruti isn't looking to sell many cars, what they hope to do is the aura if a maruti hycross inside showrooms will encourage people to buy their mainstream cars.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

You could probably skip the waiting line by booking the Suzuki Engage. Wait 2 years to get your hycross top model or get the same car with a suzuki badge immediately since a lot of units are now going to get diverted to Suzuki rather than the Toyota dealerships. Atleast until Engage bookings also go to a backlog.

Originally Posted by shortbread

This is a jugaad to move maruti upmarket with next to no investment.

Given production is all still based from Toyota’s Bidadi plant, the limited point that rankles me is launching this model where the existing line up is already facing 12 month plus waiting - its just mind boggling. Wonder how it makes people at that wait list feel when someone gets a Maruti version of it pursuant to a present day booking in the near future when people who have booked 6 months ago with Toyota would still be in waiting. Of course this could be due to pre existing contractual frameworks but from a potential customer’s eyes, it might still seem a bit much to digest.

[nirmaljusdoit]

The contractual obligations between Toyota and Suzuki were put in place long back for cross branded supply and seems to be witnessing strong demand for both sides.
It’s upto the customer to decide what they want.

Grand Vitara - waiting period : few months at max
Hyryder - waiting period - upto 18 months

In the case of Hycross, the quantity being supplied to Suzuki is limited and should result in long wait times as well.

With the introduction of Grand Vitara, Suzukis move upmarket has already been met with success. The top end of Grand Vitara is 25 L in Bangalore. it looks to be that the Engage willl also be accepted well. Harrier top end is at ~ 30 L and XUV 700 top end is ~ 33 L . If they can be priced at these point and sell, Suzuki can also price and sell the Engage accordingly. The Nexa experience is also premium to position and sell the product.

[Dr.Procastinate]

Well, As many people already mentioned, It sure is not going to rake in huge numbers for MSIL but yeah as an exercise to test the acceptance of the Suzuki badge in more premium segments, it is a good choice. I really hope this does not end up like the ill-fated Kizashi.

The real question is how the common public is going to react to this model, the model which shaped the Toyota brand in India. Will the lure of the combination of easy accessibility, customer-friendliness of MS and Toyota reliability, along with possible reductions in waiting times work wonders or will people hesitate to spend this amount of money on a 'Maruti' is something that need to be seen.

[volkman10]

Maruti 'ENGAGE' spied on test:

The car is covered in heavy camouflage, but we can see it’s the Innova HyCross. So why not the Innova HyCross? It is testing under the HR26 nameplate, which is used by Maruti. So can we spot anything new? The tail lamp design is similar, but it is sectioned similarly to the Baleno. The alloy wheel design also looks slightly different.

[RaghuVis]

Is this just a regular re-badged version?

With Brezza/Urban Cruiser , Baleno/Glanza, Grand Vitara/Hyryder rebadging exercises, both MSIL and Toyota had their own engines. So this was always the case.

For the MSIL version of HyCross, I guess they are going to use the engine of Toyota itself right? Or is MSIL going to launch a new petrol engine just for this? Doesn't make sense financially. Please don't tell me that its going to be the 1.5NA one.

I think Toyota is doing a very smart thing by using the perfect Toyota car to have a MSIL version. Being a expensive Monocoque, Innova was never going to sustain the way Innova did and a MSIL version will surely help with numbers. MSIL is also smart to ensure that their entry into 25L segment is a stable car in that segment.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

Is this just a regular re-badged version?

With Brezza/Urban Cruiser , Baleno/Glanza, Grand Vitara/Hyryder rebadging exercises, both MSIL and Toyota had their own engines. So this was always the case.

For the MSIL version of HyCross, I guess they are going to use the engine of Toyota itself right? Or is MSIL going to launch a new petrol engine just for this? Doesn't make sense financially. Please don't tell me that its going to be the 1.5NA one.

There were never any ‘Maruti engines’ and ‘Toyota engines’. All powertrains were 100% identical and common, be it between Brezza and Urban Cruiser or Baleno and Glanza or Grand Vitara and Hyryder. There was absolutely no difference or change whatsoever. Be it in engines or transmissions or even structurally. Everything was shared. Everything mechanical is 100% identical.

The same is going to happen with this Nexa version of HyCross. It will be powered by the 2.0 NA and strong hybrid engines mated with the CVT gearbox, exactly like inside the Innova HyCross.

[Rajeshkumark82]

Will Maruti be introducing manual transmissions to keep the price in check?

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by Rajeshkumark82

Will Maruti be introducing manual transmissions to keep the price in check?

3rd gen innova was never developed with a manual transmission or handbrake in mind. It would be impossible unless they spend quite a lot on further R&D and setting up new assembly lines.

[volkman10]

Maruti's upcoming seen again!






Link