[BoneCollector]

Just went through the feature list and found these missing from Zeta+ compared to Alpha+.

Missing features and my take on them.

• Wheel arch cladding - Ok
• Panoramic Sunroof - Ok
• Soft door touch trim - Ok
• Leatherette seats - Ok
• Powered tailgate - Mmm, would have been great.
• Ventilated seats - would have been great.
• Power adjustable seats - Ok
• Wireless apple carplay / Android auto - Ok
• TPMS - Not Ok but aftermarket available
• Rear Seatbelts reminder - Ok
• 360° camera - Not Ok, Good to have on this size vehicle.
• Front and rear parking sensors - Not Ok but can get fixed.
• Rear window defogger - Not Ok, can't help it.
• Anti theft security system - Not Ok
• Some remote operations - Ok

As per me, the glaring omissions are the parking sensors. If 360° camera is not provided, atleast the sensors should have been there considering the size of the vehicle. And what is it with missing Anti theft security system?

I hope they have an option of retrofitting 360° camera or atleast the sensors.

Now, if I have to look for a proper 7 seater, Zeta+ makes sense as the rear seat in Alpha+ with 3 adults can be an issue. This I need to check when vehicle gets available.

I sincerely hope that this doesn't become elusive like HyCross.

Originally Posted by SRM

Let the customer decide if they want a 7 seater or 8 seater. Not sure, does it make any difference to the manufacturers, in my view, it just stops being a family car where you do need a bench in the 2nd row.

You echo my sentiments.

[SRM]

I still fail to understand this, why no 8 seater in Alpha+ Its the same with Hycross.

At a price point like this why do the manufacturers want to decide on the seat configuration for you. Let the customer decide if they want a 7 seater or 8 seater. Not sure, does it make any difference to the manufacturers, in my view, it just stops being a family car where you do need a bench in the 2nd row.

[Venkatesh]

Invicto price comparison with the other 7-seaters.



TVC

https://youtu.be/und2NvLw6d8

[MarutiGuy1977]

Would the Invicto be manufactured by Toyota or would Maruti Suzuki be manufacturing it?
And fundamentally would there be any structural differences (not feature difference)?

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by MarutiGuy1977

Would the Invicto be manufactured by Toyota or would Maruti Suzuki be manufacturing it?
And fundamentally would there be any structural differences (not feature difference)?

Invicto should be manufactured at Bidadi like the Grand Vitara, though at different unit. Invicto should be mechanically same as Hycross.

[achintatri]

This whole drama has made Tata Safari more VFM (value for money) product. If I have 25L-30L for OTR in my pocket, I would straight away go with Tata Safari (in comparison with Invicto/Hycross) for the following reasons:

1. Best in class safety (NCAP)
2. Equivalent Space (OK, one can always use a luggage carrier for more luggage)
3. That pulling power and the love for Diesel (availability of power at every band)
4. The SUV stance (These cars have been forerunners in creating the SUV market)
5. The reducing average ownership period for a particular car among Indian customers (fueled by almost 5 years of extended warranty, AMCs whatever we call it)
6. The all terrain capability (SUV versus MPV)
7. The most important value for money factor (In about 28L OTR here in Pune, I would be getting a feature loaded automatic Safari as compared to the equivalent Hycross/Invicto model)
8. The after sales value (considering people might be reluctant to buy a battery operated vehicle, even though a hybrid, after few years of its usage as compared to a proven Diesel mill)
9. Tata Motors has come a long way (they are no more only truck builders)
10. Better driving dynamics (enthusiasts understand what I am talking about but yeah always drive carefully whatever you are driving)
11. CVT versus a proper Torque Convertor (though the driving experience MIGHT be comparable but still it's a point that needs a mention)
12. Build Quality (overall not just for NCAP) considering that Safari/Harrier now have wonderful ICE/touchscreen system :-)
13. The taxi/cab perception for the MPVs (although to a true automobile enthusiast this should not matter)
14. Lower TCO (Total Cost Of Ownership)
15. Petrol still costlier than Diesel ;-)

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by achintatri

This whole drama has made Tata Safari more VFM (value for money) product. If I have 25L-30L for OTR in my pocket, I would straight away go with Tata Safari (in comparison with Invicto/Hycross) for the following reasons:

1. Best in class safety (NCAP)
2. Equivalent Space (OK, one can always use a luggage carrier for more luggage)
3. That pulling power and the love for Diesel (availability of power at every band)
4. The SUV stance (These cars have been forerunners in creating the SUV market)
5. The reducing average ownership period for a particular car among Indian customers (fueled by almost 5 years of extended warranty, AMCs whatever we call it)
6. The all terrain capability (SUV versus MPV)
7. The most important value for money factor (In about 28L OTR here in Pune, I would be getting a feature loaded automatic Safari as compared to the equivalent Hycross/Invicto model)
8. The after sales value (considering people might be reluctant to buy a battery operated vehicle, even though a hybrid, after few years of its usage as compared to a proven Diesel mill)
9. Tata Motors has come a long way (they are no more only truck builders)
10. Better driving dynamics (enthusiasts understand what I am talking about but yeah always drive carefully whatever you are driving)
11. CVT versus a proper Torque Convertor (though the driving experience MIGHT be comparable but still it's a point that needs a mention)
12. Build Quality (overall not just for NCAP) considering that Safari/Harrier now have wonderful ICE/touchscreen system :-)
13. The taxi/cab perception for the MPVs (although to a true automobile enthusiast this should not matter)
14. Lower TCO (Total Cost Of Ownership)
15. Petrol still costlier than Diesel ;-)

Sorry to put it in harsh words, but most of those 15 points you mention are just baseless and many false.

1. What NCAP for Safari or Harrier?
2. Have you seen the space offered by the Hycross v/s Safari especially the last row?
3. You seem to have never experienced the pulling power of an electric motor.
4. Stance I won't comment on, let it pass.
5. What exactly does this do in favor of Safari?
6. Both are FWD vehicles and really not sure why you call the Safari as an All Terrain Vehicle.
7. How can you compare the pricing of a Hybrid vehicle to a diesel?
8, 9. Are all in your mind.
10. The Hycross or Invicto can't get any worse than a Safari when it comes to handling. They are equally bulky with body roll included free in the package.
11. FYI there is no CVT transmission in the Hycross/Invicto Hybrid. What you have is an e-CVT which is a combo of two motor generators that are electrically coupled. It doesn't have a mechanical link like CVT except for a single step reduction gear that kicks in at constant high speeds.
12. Won't comment on build quality. I will let that pass as well.
13. Taxi/Cab perception has never hurt the Innova, nor will it make a difference for the Invicto.
14. Lower cost of ownership of Maruti and Toyota v/s Tata is something no one can prove over the last ten years. Compare an Innova ownership v/s a Hexa ownership, if you can even find a Tata car that's ten years old and still can be maintained in ASC.
15. Dont you have a basic understanding of the economies of a petrol hybrid and a diesel?

Maybe the fanboy hat has covered people's eyes I guess to give such random justifications.

[Gamemaztr]

Did MSIL just skip the 2nd and 3rd Row Seat Belt Reminder for Zeta+? It plays an advert on radio saying that is an essential safety feature! And doesn't the Fronx get it from Sigma variant?.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Gamemaztr

Did MSIL just skip the 2nd and 3rd Row Seat Belt Reminder for Zeta+? It plays an advert on radio saying that is an essential safety feature! And doesn't the Fronx get it from Sigma variant?.

If they have skipped it that's one thing. But in the Fronx there is no weight sensor in the rear seat and the seatbelt should always be buckled in to prevent the alarm. This defeats the whole purpose of the reminder since it will stay buckled irrespective of whether there are passengers or not. So who will remind the passengers to wear the seat belts after they have sat on it? Absolutely absurd implementation. For the Invicto since it's not a Maruti product they couldn't have done this and instead completely offered the feature or skipped it.

[achintatri]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Sorry to put it in harsh words, but most of those 15 points you mention are just baseless and many false.

Thanks for your kind words however If I have that kind of money (and this is very important), I would still go for Safari because VFM = Quality/Cost and Innova although has always been the king of MPVs, Hycross or Invicto for that reason is low on VFM as compared to Safari.

So for a money and VFM conscious person like me and most of the team bhpians here, Invicto seems more like a Joke from Common Man's company that doesn't seem to be holding on to that title anymore.

[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by achintatri

So for a money and VFM conscious person like me and most of the team bhpians here, Invicto seems more like a Joke from Common Man's company that doesn't seem to be holding on to that title anymore.

Not sure how a petrol hybrid with excellent fuel economy, a properly usable third row for passengers and a 'perceived' hassle free ownership of Toyota/Maruti Suzuki compared to Tata is less value for money.
It might be a personal choice getting a Safari over this car, but let's not generalise an opinion to the extent of saying the car is a 'joke'.

I own a second generation Ertiga, and now that I have got a taste of the practicality that she offers for my driving situations, I won't even consider Safari when upgrading to Hycross/Invicto. There can be a lot of people who share same sentiment as mine

[manofinfinity]

Originally Posted by achintatri

Thanks for your kind words however If I have that kind of money (and this is very important), I would still go for Safari because VFM = Quality/Cost and Innova although has always been the king of MPVs, Hycross or Invicto for that reason is low on VFM as compared to Safari.

So for a money and VFM conscious person like me and most of the team bhpians here, Invicto seems more like a Joke from Common Man's company that doesn't seem to be holding on to that title anymore.

My friend you cannot compare safari with innova they are from different segments and cater to different markets.
I own hycross and as others said and i agree innova is the most vfm car under 30l currently on sale.
And please don't generalise your personal preference.
I myself personally will never recommend safari to anyone be it my friends, family over an innova specifically.
Seriously i would say just test drive and experience hycross once you will forget everything else.
Toyota and MS cars compared to tata always had great resale value which tells a lot about a product and it's value in market.
And if i have to pick under 30l i would definitely go with xuv or hycross over safari any day.

[ajaiD]

Tried to cancel my booking but getting the same error again and again "We regret the inconvenience cause.Your booking cancellation request could not be processed at this time.Please try again after some time or contact the Nexa Dealership."

Too many people trying to cancel maybe.

[hAwX]

I could only see one page from the brochure Turbanator posted. Here’s all of them.

[Carpainter]

Originally Posted by achintatri

This whole drama has made Tata Safari more VFM (value for money) product. If I have 25L-30L for OTR in my pocket, I would straight away go with Tata Safari (in comparison with Invicto/Hycross) for the following reasons:

1. Best in class safety (NCAP)
2. Equivalent Space (OK, one can always use a luggage carrier for more luggage)
3. That pulling power and the love for Diesel (availability of power at every band)
4. The SUV stance (These cars have been forerunners in creating the SUV market)
5. The reducing average ownership period for a particular car among Indian customers (fueled by almost 5 years of extended warranty, AMCs whatever we call it)
6. The all terrain capability (SUV versus MPV)
7. The most important value for money factor (In about 28L OTR here in Pune, I would be getting a feature loaded automatic Safari as compared to the equivalent Hycross/Invicto model)
8. The after sales value (considering people might be reluctant to buy a battery operated vehicle, even though a hybrid, after few years of its usage as compared to a proven Diesel mill)
9. Tata Motors has come a long way (they are no more only truck builders)
10. Better driving dynamics (enthusiasts understand what I am talking about but yeah always drive carefully whatever you are driving)
11. CVT versus a proper Torque Convertor (though the driving experience MIGHT be comparable but still it's a point that needs a mention)
12. Build Quality (overall not just for NCAP) considering that Safari/Harrier now have wonderful ICE/touchscreen system :-)
13. The taxi/cab perception for the MPVs (although to a true automobile enthusiast this should not matter)
14. Lower TCO (Total Cost Of Ownership)
15. Petrol still costlier than Diesel ;-)

Actually you're comparing apples with oranges here. Your comparison might stand if it was with Crysta (still bof vs monocoque) but comparing a Toyota hybrid muv with a Tata manufactured Fiat sourced (if I'm not wrong) diesel is not wise. There are plenty of Safari owners with regular niggles and sub par service experience. While the future of hybrids is still unknown in India, but given the fact that both Maruti and Toyota are planning to bring this same technology in all their future cars is assuring. Once hybrid power trains make way in regular more mass market cars like Baleno, Brezza etc in a few years time, it will become more common than soon to be restricted personal diesel vehicles. When it comes to petrol and diesel price difference, it's not an issue anymore and Safari diesel gives around 8-9kmpl in city anyway while Hycross should give 14+. Current owners can confirm this. That should make up for it. Only thing is battery replacement cost post warranty period but given Toyota's track record abroad, it should be good for roughly 10 years or 2 lakh kms. By that time most people would already change their cars.

Originally Posted by audioholic

If they have skipped it that's one thing. But in the Fronx there is no weight sensor in the rear seat and the seatbelt should always be buckled in to prevent the alarm. This defeats the whole purpose of the reminder since it will stay buckled irrespective of whether there are passengers or not. So who will remind the passengers to wear the seat belts after they have sat on it? Absolutely absurd implementation. For the Invicto since it's not a Maruti product they couldn't have done this and instead completely offered the feature or skipped it.

It's the same with their Grand Vitara and probably in the new Baleno as well. Epitome of cost cutting. Instead of giving weight sensors for rear seat, they just provided this feature to tick the box of seatbelt reminder for rear seats. Better to skip this feature than to have it.