[vivekgk]

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Once the bookings open, the smart approach for the true 4x4 enthusiast would be to make a booking (no fomo) and scan the classifieds for "instant regret" distress sales. Purchase decisions made based on "looks" and "lifestyle" rapidly turn sour once the buyer gets a taste of the rigid front axle driving experience.

Given the success of hype marketing for "lifestyle" vehicles and prices nudging ever further north, I would speculate that the used car market will be littered with "Doctor Driven" Jimnys in short term.

I am waiting for the Jimny and it has been more than a decade now since the wait started.

True. If you look at the no of used car listings of barely used Thars, especially the thirsty petrol variant, it is clear that most of them were bought without a detailed consideration or maybe, no proper TD beforehand. When I test drove the new Thar the first thing to strike me was just how unsettled it felt compared to my Ecosport. Though the power and the "commanding driving position" were on a different level, so was the ride quality, even on asphalt. And that's with an independent front suspension.

As I said before here, the live axle on the front of the Jimny is going to be the deal breaker for several buyers, especially with the 5 door Thar as competition. If the pricing for the Jimny is spot-on, then we will see hard-core enthusiasts picking it up, as well as well-to-do folks who want a taste of the off-road experience with the safe Suzuki brand. Considering the Suzuki trend of taking bookings before the media reviews have started, a lot of the initial bookings will be done with just the looks in mind.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by gsferrari

Once the bookings open, the smart approach for the true 4x4 enthusiast would be to make a booking (no fomo) and scan the classifieds for "instant regret" distress sales. .

Originally Posted by vivekgk

True. If you look at the no of used car listings of barely used Thars, especially the thirsty petrol variant, it is clear that most of them were bought without a detailed consideration or maybe, no proper TD beforehand. When I test drove the new Thar the first thing to strike me was just how unsettled it felt compared to my Ecosport. a lot of the initial bookings will be done with just the looks in mind.

Absolutely bang on. People buy these ‘lifestyle vehicles’ with nary a thought. Many of these buyers are ‘first time’ owners of ‘Jeepy things’. They get carried away by general FOMO and because they inveigled by the looks and image they want to portray, but they all fall victim to severe ‘buyer’s remorse’ within a few days, weeks, months.

I would like to see this 5 door Thar and 5 door Jimny in rhe metal and drive them and experience them properly. To be worthy substitutes for my 3 door Thar as proper Grand Touring vehicles, they need to be properly designed, with functional interiors and lots of luggage space, easily capable of accommodating a couple of passengers. Only then, will they be worthy of serious consideration.

[Venkatesh]

Maruti Suzuki Jimny launch by August 2023

Coming: August 2023
Engines: 1.5-litre petrol, Suzuki AllGrip Pro all-wheel drive
Expected price: Rs 15 lakh

Source

[Emvi]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Maruti Suzuki Jimny launch by August 2023

August 2023!? Why not August 2030?
Of late Maruti's product planning / pricing strategy has gone quite bizzare to be honest.

A few things that I can easily recall,
- Brezza / Grand Vitara's ambitious pricing(especially the higher variants)
- Not updating Ignis with dual jet engine, which they have done for rest(most) of the cars in the line-up.
- Refreshed Eeco leaves a lot to be desired.
- Strange variant line-up as far as Alto K10 is concerned. Base variant with no AC! Seriously? Again, the pricing is a wee bit ambitious IMO.

[karan561]

Interesting to see the Tyre choice is Michelin Defender(which IMO is an upgrade);

[jkrishnakj]

Today’s economic times talks of the Jimny being showcased at the Auto Expo next month and for a launch soon after, with pricing being sub 10L.

https://m.economictimes.com/industry...w/96524682.cms

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Emvi

Of late Maruti's product planning / pricing strategy has gone quite bizzare to be honest.
- Not updating Ignis with dual jet engine, which they have done for rest(most) of the cars in the line-up.
- Refreshed Eeco leaves a lot to be desired.
- Strange variant line-up as far as Alto K10 is concerned. Base variant with no AC! Seriously? Again, the pricing is a wee bit ambitious IMO.

Offtopic.

True. Feels weird to buy the Ignis AMT, knowing that the much cheaper S-presso has hill- hold and even ESP. Stupid of Maruti to not offer power steering with the refreshed Eeco. About Alto K10, it is just a brochure variant that they put so that entry prices will be low, especially with the exit of the F8D Alto800.

[shortbread]

If NCAP crash tests this car it's likely to have disastrous results, and that combined with a press release could have disastrous results for maruti.

[wacso]

Originally Posted by shortbread

If NCAP crash tests this car it's likely to have disastrous results, and that combined with a press release could have disastrous results for maruti.

The original one from 2018 got 3 star, way better than 1 star Jeep wrangler in EuroNCAP, and in japanese Crash test, the kei car version, didn't roll where other lower Cars done, i didn't see why this one got to be worse, if maruti respects the original structure

[volkman10]

High expectations for Maruti Suzuki on its new launches.

-The two models include the Jimny—set to be unveiled at the auto expo next month

-With a production plan of over a lakh per year for each (including exports) both models expected be priced in the sub-Rs10 lakh segment and are likely to be a volume spinner for the company

- With multiple SUV models in its folio, Maruti’s market share is likely to improve in the SUV segment.

- Hybrids will hold the company in good stead once the BSVI 2.O norm kicks in. The norms will make diesel more expensive and hybrids a preferred choice.




Link

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by vivekgk

While I do defer to your experience with the old TC boxes with 4 speed and even 2 speed powerglide boxes, the big difference here is that this isn't a high capacity straight six or V8 that this 4 speed AT is paired to, but an underfed 1.5L petrol that has been tuned to eke out the maximum mileage, performance be damned. It's an engine that can be best termed adequate.

MSIL really needs a newer engine. I think tey're waiting until the other shoe drops on BS6, i.e the revisions next year.

I agree in principle that more gears can (theoretically) be better in such cases, since a small, unboosted engine typically has a narrower torque band, and the more able it is to stay in a desirable rpm range, the better. Iirc I've never once enjoyed driving any low-powered automatic vehicle.

That said, most of my experience driving them was in the latter part of the last century , and we're touching 2023 so...

Just saying that with torque-converter stall speed and lockup/ shift maps and corresponding gear ratio tweaks, along with engine management mapping itself, things are a lot more advanced now vs then, and I tend to think one wouldn't need an idealized design to get decent performance and FE. People at any rate almost never bought 4wd SUV's for sprightly performance, AMG G-Wagens and the (thrilling and cheap) GMC Typhoon notwithstanding (look up the latter - I took one for a mad and allegedly work-related test drive once).

I just feel we are sometimes a bit too quick to judge / dismiss on the basis of specs / historic experiences / assumptions alone.

For the record, most of the inline 6's used in front of Powerglides were deathly anemic and could not have been fun. Your point is well-taken. They needed a V8 to be tolerable, for me. Depends on expectations and use, though. They sold lots more of those in anemic rather than "healthy" form!

Btw some may not be aware that the first Corvette in 1953 had no engine/trans option besides an inline 6 and 2-speed 'glide... We might safely affirm that things have progressed in a positive direction. As far as America's sports car goes.

I just say give the Jimny (in its actual, production form and tune) a chance, let multiple people actually drive the thing, assess and comment. I am pretty sure that even an anemic 1.5 can manage the highway speeds that most of us actually travel at, and raw acceleration isn't really a priority for many. No point raising the MRP by a lakh (or whatever) to get a couple more gears that look good on paper but which increase complexity ans may be of little perceptible benefit to many/most prospective buyers.

Originally Posted by Emvi

AugustBase variant with no AC! Seriously?

Some fairly "premium" vehicles in northern Europe can apparenly still be purchased without A/C.

In the Indian Himalayas many people don't want/need A/C - In fact we just drove 3,600kms across North India without working A/C, and were quite comfortable. Not that I'd try that in June...

But why should ALL be forced to pay for things like A/C, P/S, rear wiper/defogger, sound system, etc, etc that a fair number don't value/ want/ need and/or can't afford? Why drag around the extra weight and increase service costs unnecessarily, in the view of a certain subset?

Entry-level is called entry level, ànd base variant is called base variant, for good reasons.

Personally I tend towards maximizing simplicity.

-Eric

[Emvi]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Some...

I guess we are going off-topic here. Since you have brought up the points, these are my views.

fairly "premium" vehicles in northern Europe can apparenly still be purchased without A/C.

We are talking about Indian market and the competition.

In the Indian Himalayas many people don't want/need A/C - In fact we just drove 3,600kms across North India without working A/C, and were quite comfortable.

Well, thats your perspective. If you ask me, in my 20+ years of driving I have never(barring a couple of forced circumstances) switched off AC and rolled down windows even for a duration of say 30 minutes during a drive.

But why should ALL be forced to pay for things like A/C, P/S, rear wiper/defogger, sound system, etc, etc that a fair number don't value/ want/ need and/or can't afford? Why drag around the extra weight and increase service costs unnecessarily, in the view of a certain subset?

Nobody is forced to buy anything they don't want. It's we "the enthusiasts" who yearn for the features even in the most basic variant of a car citing safety, comfort so on and so forth.

Entry-level is called entry level, ànd base variant is called base variant, for good reasons.
Personally I tend towards maximizing simplicity.

Righty said. Entry level is entry level and I personally wish the base variant Jimny comes with soft top, no modern gizmos / gadgets and bench seats at the rear just like the plain, simple erstwhile Gypsy. Would the market accept this?

Well, to each his own.

Mods, apologies for going off-topic.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Emvi

Righty said. Entry level is entry level and I personally wish the base variant Jimny comes with soft top, no modern gizmos / gadgets and bench seats at the rear just like the plain, simple erstwhile Gypsy. Would the market accept this?

Well, to each his own.

Mods, apologies for going off-topic.

There is a market for it and nobody is making a vehicle to fulfil it , trouble is the moment such a model exits GNCAP will take one and crash it to save Indians from harm (their story).

No wonder even Thar is no longer available in the base variant with side facing seats.

However while a base model can exist, Maruti will have to make a more 'Life-stylish' model with all the bells and whistles , we are entering 2023 afterall, even the fellow who cannot afford a motorcycle will not find it appealing otherwise , expectations have grown over the years.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Emvi

We are talking about Indian market and the competition...
Nobody is forced to buy anything they don't want. It's we "the enthusiasts" who yearn for the features even in the most basic variant of a car citing safety, comfort so on and so forth....Well, to each his own.

It is not at all OT, we are discussing how we think the Jimny should be equipped - indeed for a very diverse Indian market - incl. what variants / equipment levels should be offered. Considéring that my part of India has contributed to a fair percentage of sales for the outgoing model (strong right up to the end), I think mine is a reasonable and qualified opinion.

It took someone in H.P. about three hours recently to sell his stock 2019 Gypsy. For 9 (nine!) Lakhs!!! One could ask why the buyer didn't put in some more, and go for a brand new Thar petrol. EMI on a good interest rate and it might even work better than dropping 9L cash like that. For a car with no A/C, rear wiper/defogger, etc. Excellent question, but end of the day, the buyer didn't want a better-equipped Thar, he wanted his Spartan Gypsy. The one with the floorpan metal showing at the edges of the floor matting. Yep.

If we could access more refined model sales data, you would probably find that in the last ten years, Gypsy sales have by far been highest in the hill states/ districts. Same with Bolero Camper and Thar DI, I'd bet. Could mention the base Altos and heck, even Nanos, to make the point. None of these were available with A/C or much of anything else re: comfort/ convenience enhancement. People buy them as local hill runabouts, for their tea estates, commuting to Manali snow-points, etc. And they are so well-suited to these uses! So yes, THAT market (some of which never sees ambient temps above 20-25C) will accept a bare-bones variant, in fact it wants that more than anything else. Best VFM and fewest headaches over the long-run.

"To each his own" is absolutely right, I'm not the one telling anyone what to buy or what features they should be willing to pay for!

But absolutely, if "the enthusiasts" sitting down in the metros with fat salaries are convincing automakers through forums such as this one that even a "base variant" must have all this stuff, then yes, many who till now have been buying the simple cars they want really WILL be *forced* to pay more, for features they don't need - because there is literally no variant which omits the things they don't want.

And hence the whole term "base" becomes meaningless.

Not sure why that's difficult to grasp.

If someone says: "I want a variant that gives me A/C and a rear wiper at sub-8L", that's an entirely different - and fully sensible - kind of statement, the expression of a personal desire, without denying others the option of fulfilling their own aspirations.

I'm 100% for choice and freedom - buy what you want and can afford - but why insist on taking my own choice away, just because you personally in 20 years never turned off your A/C?

I did not at any point mention safety features, you'll note. That would be a completely different question/ issue.

I realize that Maruti may not be aiming at their former Gypsy customers anymore. More volume and money to be made elsewhere. Sad if true.

My question is that if "the enthusiasts" and well-heeled get their way, then what's there for people like us?

Driving across northern UP/BR a couple weeks back, I saw a LOT of the old Mahindra 640/650DP Jeeps in service as share-taxis. They haven't made those in maybe 20 years, yet many/most I saw were in pristine condition. They are highly valued there - and they don't even have proper doors!

We should bear in mind that with all the apparent economic progress the country has been caught up in, the total sales of 8-10L+ vehicles over a five-year period still represents a fairly small percentage of the population.

People are raving/gloating about the sales figures of 15+L cars in India. XUV doing 6k/mo. Nice. But to put it in perspective, the Ford Mustang sold 700,000 units in its first 1-1/2 years of production.

It's not 1965 now, but still nothing wrong with an exciting, stylish, simple, well-built and relatively cheap car.

-Eric

[volkman10]

After market accessory ideas for the Jimny 5d?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufpz...8B%95%E8%BB%8A