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-   -   Scrap all 15-year old vehicles in West Bengal, says NGT (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/254862-scrap-all-15-year-old-vehicles-west-bengal-says-ngt-7.html)

Supreme Court recently fined two guys for filing a petition against NGT ban on old cars in Delhi. The fine amount is Rs 8 lacs. I am not sure how many middle class people will be willing to risk getting such fine upon themselves now.

This is the start of a new vision for a new India. We will have many such laws atleast for the next 10-15 years.

The logic behind my above statement is:
1. India is now a single party Nation. Without competition the politicians will have no fear of the outcome of their choices and decisions.
2. The poor are not bothered about all this NGT stuff.
3. The rich & elite are not bothered about all this NGT stuff. Many change cars every few years anyway.
4. Middle class… (not speaking much for my fellow middle class people, we are already tired after working and then paying multiple taxes to have a little luxury).
5. Environmentalist mentality: People who feel happy after such rules are applied overnight without any warning or giving time to prepare.

This is too illogical in the name of green EV mobility. My retired parents, for example, have a diesel 2013 Fiat Grande Punto parked in their garage. They use it for less than 500km per year. Is that polluting?

Buying a new car will be a definite economic burden for them, especially EV because hybrids and EVs cant be parked for weeks and months, their batteries deteriorate. The cost of battery replacement will be substantial. Add the decrease in range as well.

Just for 500 or even say 1500-2000km per year, buying a new car is more polluting. Just for reference, this is the amount of water it takes to make one car as per Google.



Add all the electronic and electrical waste that will be generated from the scrapped car (not all of it can be recycled in our country; lets keep this point debatable for now and see the reality in future).

To anyone who says that vehicles are cause of pollution, please feel free to visit my city and I will show you how the system is working without consideration for human health or animal health and environment here. I can click a few photos that will hopefully be an eye opening lesson for those officials sitting in a clean NGT office. :thumbsdown

Not sure if this kind of illogical rule has reached my state but there is absolutely no way I'll scrap my car according to the whims and fancies of some tribunal. I'll use it for as long as I can maintain it in a good manner. So not going down without a fight. :thumbs up

What?!!! :uncontrol why are they fining people for questioning the tribunals whims and fancies? Normally people file petitions when they want to dispute something, isn't that guaranteed by some way in the constitution? Free speech, free will? Or is it now illegal to speak up and act? Dark times ahead if that's the case.

I am not a law person and I am not questioning the honourable Court’s verdict/ judgement. I am just sharing what I read. The fine of Rs8 lacs is what caught my attention. I dont think common citizen would want to file a petition against NGT now.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/supr...enture-2982779

I checked this news story on multiple websites(5), and none of them have any elaboration whatsoever.

But from the wording of the order passed by the bench, it is clear that the two supreme court lawyers (not the common man) seem to have a history of filing petitions for seemingly frivolous reasons. The wording further suggests that the judges had given the lawyers a chance to take back their petitions which the lawyers failed to do so.

Any writ petition is supposed to be initially filed in lower courts and then moved up as per my understanding (I'm not a lawyer). By bypassing the procedure of the courts, the lawyers were deemed to be wasting the Supreme court's time and as a result this "exemplary" fine was imposed on the two lawyers, probably to set an example. For reference, supreme court lawyers charge fees ranging in lakhs, so an exemplary fine would also have to run in the lakhs. :Cheering:

It by no mean implies that the common man is being discouraged to fight for his rights, and he is free to file whatever cases he deems are worth fighting for, in a court system famous for its speed (or lack thereof);)

These arbitrary bans are happening because of lack of proper data on the contributors to air pollution. Going to court to question the decision is unlikely to be helpful, unless there is convincing data to show that automobiles are not the primary contributors to air pollution (about which I am not sure - it is possible that they are).

So, the first thing to do, to counter the automobile manufacturing lobby’s influence on these decisions is to scientifically study the contributors to air pollution in the cities (where the problem is more acute). My guess is that there will be factors other than automobiles contributing to the problem to an equal or a greater extent.

I don’t know whether such data already exist. If not, high time it is done.

Otherwise we will continue to face arbitrary rules.

I may have missed something, but isn't this ruling towards "public vehicles" only?

"its order, the tribunal stated that the state government must ensure that public vehicles below BS-IV (Bharat Stage) are phased out over the next six months, with only BS-IV vehicles operating after that in the state, including Kolkata and Howrah."

Nope. NGT cases can only be appealed in the Supreme Court. FYI, MoRTH in its new policy had again claimed vehicle's life of 15 years, without any re-registration or checks, everybody thought it would over rule the NGT's verdict of 10 year life for Diesels in Delhi. But nope. It did not.

After facing so much pollution in Delhi NCR even I had started to think this could be because of these vehicles because I cannot stand near tailpipe while the engine is running. But after seeing the results post ban, I don't think it has make an iota of difference in AQI.

In summers also there was not even a single day with good AQI. We all can imagine what the next few months would bring in. See this:


Source: The Hindu

Nobody would object in scrapping the vehicles only if it yielded any ground results. The pollution level remains the same, infact creates record every year. The only thing which decreases are the savings of a common man due to illogical rulings like these.

Frankly, if they think they can scrap 92 Lakh vehicles from the roads, then they are far far far faaaarr away from the ground reality.

After some struggle, finally found the judgment issued by NGT on this matter i.e.

• Date of Listing: 26-07-2022
• Coram: Mr. Justice B. Amit Sthalekar; Mr. Saibal Dasgupta

The focus area will be:

(ii) With regard to Phasing Out of Old Vehicles (more than 15 years old):-
Although the affidavit of the State Government indicates some actions, a concerted effort by the State Government is lacking. Huge number of private and commercial vehicles older than 15 years are plying in the cities of Kolkata and Howrah and also in other places in the State of West Bengal which amounts to few lakhs. An exact time frame for phasing out of all old vehicles (more than 15 years old) is not clearly mentioned.
It is, therefore, directed that all the old commercial and private vehicles in the State of West Bengal including the cities of Kolkata and Howrah be phased out in the next six months.

The State Government must ensure that the public transport vehicles below BS-IV are phased out in the next six months so that after six months only BS-VI vehicles would ply in the State of West Bengal including the cities of Kolkata and Howrah.
It is further directed that while phasing out of the old vehicles, a move towards use of cleaner and greener technology with the introduction of Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) Buses/Electric Buses may be expedited.

Judgment / Order attached

It is indeed VERY unfortunate. Govt isn't able to keep honest & tight controls on the regulations that its laid out, like PUC. PUC is a joke. Its sold for pittance, and such miscreants can then go their own merry ways each, rules, regulations, climate & honest car owners, be damned. Have you'll seen the pollution that govt vehicles are belching out? Speed guns, PUC, traffic rules are ONLY for pvt citizens. Why, even cabs go scot free. Govt should reign THESE perpetrators in 1st, then think of setting unreasonable tiny validity timelines for us. Its criminally heart-breaking.

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/vehicl...-finer-details

Will any of this be considered in Kolkata? We own a 2005 Alto and have booked a Kushaq but the SA is unable to give any news on this. He told us that we would get only Rs20,000 if the Alto were scrapped vs the 40,000 they promised.:Frustrati:Frustrati

As per the shared link:

• OEMs to provide 5% discount on the purchase of a new vehicle against the scrapping certificate.
• State governments to offer road tax rebate of up to 25% for personal vehicles and up to 15% for commercial vehicles.

Won't this 5% cover for the 20K shortage that dealer is taking abou? This seems to be a substantial amount if calculated on the ex showroom price.
Also, 25% rebate on road tax should be around 7-8K.

I may be missing something, but apparently it looks like a winner deal.

It would be a winner deal but the dealer is saying that these rules are not applicable in WB right now.

I talked to some scrapping company in Bangalore and they said, the certificate thingy will be effective only in April 2023.

I had a WagorR completing 15 years in Oct and was looking at this option.

Uh, now I get it. Apologies for my misunderstanding. It seems the eligibility for private vehicles is 20 years (& 15 for commercial).
Source: The Time of India

This is the reality. As per a very learned person in the Car/vehicle automation of the future Mr Umar (UK)

“ The answer of Batter vs Hydrogen power depends on many factors. Let me start by saying that the driving unit in Battery Electric vehicle is battery while driving unit in hydrogen electric vehicle is a Fuel Cell. (Its important to mention the driving unit because the infrastructure of battery electric vehicle and Hydrogen electric vehicle are different which makes a lot of difference). If you want to compare the efficiencies of batteries with fuel cells, there is no way you can compete with batteries (FUEL CELL 50% and Batteries 95%). When it comes to economics, fuel cell is cheaper than current batteries, but if you consider the fuel, hydrogen is costly compare to the fuel of batteries (Electricity). This is an opinion of a researcher but if you want to know what big companies are thinking. Read the excerpts of a survey below

KPMG surveyed almost 1,000 senior executives from “the world’s leading automotive companies” and found that 62% of them believe battery-powered electric vehicles (BEVs) will fail due to infrastructure problems.
An even stronger majority, 78% of them, believe that fuel cells hydrogen is the future of “zero tailpipe emission” driving.”

We all know, the reasons are political :)