[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by giri1.8

So you are saying, dumping one million diesel vehicles running in good condition and replacing them with brand new EVs is going to solve pollution? How about wait until they get old and scrap them!

Not everyone has ready cash lying around to buy a brand new EV just because government wants us to.

Sorry..you did not read my post, that is exactly what I did not say.

[aerohit]

You can ban ALL vehicles on the road, pollution will remain.

One year ago he had spent crores on now forgotten "smog tower".

[R_R]

The problem is not this particular proposal, which may or may not be adopted. The problem is more fundamental: the government (both State and Centre) can anytime make hasty and ill-thought out decisions, with little concern for how it impacts citizens who have invested their hard-earned income. Their particular bugbear seems to be diesel vehicles. This makes any purchase of diesel vehicles a risky proposition, especially in the NCR. I doubt the government would alter their unthinking, bureaucratic manner of functioning. So any purchase of diesel vehicles in the NCR is a highly risky proposition.

[fhdowntheline]

So you eliminate particle pollution in Delhi by removing diesel vehicles, encourage people to use electric vehicles and increase the pollution in the areas where thermal power plants are located. Genius argument indeed!

[Gummybear]

There was a saying 'Man of words' and then when came time everything have to be in written, and now, even written have no credibility. I purchased a diesel BS-IV vehicle in 2015 and got RC with government written validity of 15 years. Came 2020, with BS-VI, given validity was stopped being honored by government and reduced to only 10 years. Which means, one third of my money, which includes a significant part of taxes and charges paid to government, goes down the drain. No compensation and no apology from any government body. Can common man also have similar powers to dishonor EMI payments without our cars getting impounding, citing reason like job loss or salary cut or inflation?

Now, again with new NGT policies, I may not be able to use my vehicle for some days in winters. Again no compensation announced, no free metro family pass on my car RC, no tax refund on my ola/uber bills for those days.

Retrospective changes in laws and policies hits trustworthiness and reliability on government.

Pollution is the problem, but was odd-even scheme not successful? If no, then how can stopping just 1 million BS-IV diesel can help, compared to odd-even where half of the total vehicles were allowed on any given day, but if it was successful, and as NGT says they have got prewarning system, then start odd-even for those few days, as it will be proven and more effective in curbing vehicle pollution.

I still believe, without having implementable and adoptable solution for stubble burning, all these measures from NGT are just eye-wash with minimal impact. Stopping diesel cars for few days/weeks is penny wise pound foolish, because owners will start replacing their cars with new vehicle sooner, and production of a new car emits more pollution and have bigger carbon foot-print compared to few days/weeks of driving a BS-IV diesel car.

[lina]

If Diesel and old vehicles were the problem, then this problem would be there in all cities. There is a core issue of large scale open burning of stubble, garbage and construction dust. Instead of fixing that, passing random resolutions on vehicles will solve nothing.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Gummybear

Pollution is the problem, but was odd-even scheme not successful? If no, then how can stopping just 1 million BS-IV diesel can help, compared to odd-even where half of the total vehicles were allowed on any given day, but if it was successful, and as NGT says they have got prewarning system, then start odd-even for those few days, as it will be proven and more effective in curbing vehicle pollution.

If only our Media had any spine left to ask this to the respective governments. I would honestly love to see the face of government/bureaucracy trying to make sense of the above argument. The ban-blame policy is not going to change anything on the ground and they also know it.

[ashokabs]

Originally Posted by vredesbyrd

About time we get a new Delhi government and completely ban NGT. I don't see any other way.

I am wondering what any other Govt will do? NGT is the judicial arm in this mess and nothing can be done about it. There is something that is common to most of the cities in India. All of them have poor AQI - mostly about 200 throughout the year. Even in coastal cities the lower AQI is mainly owing to the pollution being pushed out to sea during the day and fresh sea breeze comes in at night.

Obviously, we cannot shut down construction activity all over India, nor can we stop people from travelling to and from their work and other day to day activities. Yes, converting to CNG buses is probably an answer to reduce particulate pollution.

People will willy nilly - thanks to the 'apparent' fuel cost savings - go for electric two wheelers and three wheelers as soon as they become reliable. I don't think much else can be done. There is dust in the air in India all over - can it be reduced? Maybe there is no economic solution other than to bear the AQI and hope we have adapted to this over the last 30-40 years.

[bravo82in]

There is a ban on 10 years old diesel cars and 15 years old petrol cars. Did that help? NO.
Then they came with ban on cars more than 2000 cc. That was without logic and had to reversed.
Can the government dare to ban two wheeler? NO.
They are the biggest vote bank.
Is the govt increasing the green cover, NO?
Rather they are legalising illegal colonies on green areas and parks one after the other and providing them with free water and electricity (and address proof), another vote bank tactics at the cost of Delhi's green cover.
Did the odd even scheme help with Delhi’s pollution? NO.
But the government spent Crores to advertise how awesome the scheme was.
Has the govt come up any policy to curb industrial pollution? NO.
Has Punjab govt done anything so far for stubble burning? NO.
Will the present proposal help? NO.
But the Govt will put big hoarding to prove how effective the ban is.
And we will be back to square one.
God save Delhi.

[attinder]

Originally Posted by bravo82in

Has Punjab govt done anything so far for stubble burning? NO

In 'stubble burning' season , Pollution in rural punjab and cities is nowhere near bad as Delhi.

I am sure it contributes to Delhi pollution but don't understand why so much blame is put on the practice.

Edit: Not very long ago almost everyone in rural India was using 'Chulha' all year long. Millions of little fires. Things were fine.

[~Zombie~]

Seems like used car market in NCR will flourish. Source of NCR pollution, well that's a hot potato. Clean fuels are the need of the hour, nonetheless.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by attinder

I am sure it contributes to Delhi pollution but don't understand why so much blame is put on the practice.

Edit: Not very long ago almost everyone in rural India was using 'Chulha' all year long. Millions of little fires. Things were fine.

What I recollect reading is that with the introduction of certain seeds (GMO?) the harvest and "parali" burning time has changed. Unlike earlier times, it now coincides with wind movements towards Delhi when it already has a lot of smog, leading to a cumulative disaster.

Someone with farming links in the region might be able to confirm and elaborate.

Originally Posted by drmohitg

If only our Media had any spine...

Media is run quite like other businesses now, with governments being the biggest "customers". Government spends on advertising has increased manifolds. It is difficult for media businesses to antagonize governments beyond what is really needed. (Also dependent on the positioning of the channel/newspaper)

For a more fair media, not dependent on ads, we would need to pay several times what we're used to. A newspaper selling at (say) Rs. 70-100 isn't a viable business proposition - wouldn't sell in enough numbers.

What we do have now is social media; that too till it too gets subsumed by the powers that be - a project already well in process.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

So you eliminate particle pollution in Delhi by removing diesel vehicles, encourage people to use electric vehicles and increase the pollution in the areas where thermal power plants are located. Genius argument indeed!

There is merit to that idea. By concentrating the pollution source to a few points, government gets full control of it. Power generation is very capital intensive and when alternate power generation mechanisms evolve government can make that change quickly rather than asking millions of power generating vehicles to change. The whole point of EV transition is to move power generation from the point of usage to a few points. That helps in quick transition from coal to wind to solar to whatever comes in the future.

This is not to say I agree with this ban. This is defenitely not the way to encourage EV adoption. It must be through incentives.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by attinder

In 'stubble burning' season , Pollution in rural punjab and cities is nowhere near bad as Delhi.

I am sure it contributes to Delhi pollution but don't understand why so much blame is put on the practice.

Edit: Not very long ago almost everyone in rural India was using 'Chulha' all year long. Millions of little fires. Things were fine.

I have stayed (few weeks every year) in "village" setting in the 80s and 90s when LPG was a luxury.
My grandfather used to arrange for babul branches and twigs everyday, cooking and heating was done on chulha every day, every time.
I remember there used to be smoke around the house (cooking used to happen in the courtyard) but if you step out of the house I never remember seeing a scenario where the smoke is accumulated over each house covering the entire village.

However, I have seen the videos of stubble waste burning in Punjab. The amount of smoke that is being produces is multiple order of magnitude greater than what happens in wood chulhas. There is simply no comparison in the speed of combustion and the amount of smoke produced (per hectare per day).

Added to this: the dispersion by wind and stagnation/accumulation at the NCR area. This has been verified by satellite imagery.

[fhdowntheline]

Lets also note that the overall agricultural output has also increased from the earlier times so it may be logical that they are burning more stubble than before. Also the amount of concrete dust, brick kiln, quarry dust, due construction in and around NCR would be enormously high given the spate of infrastructural changes. This contributes significantly to the pollution. So blaming it on diesel cars alone is almost discriminatory.