[locusjag]

Stubble burning, anyone? Reckless garbage burning, anyone? Diesel gen-sets at the foot of every mobile tower, anyone?

How about just sweeping roads to clear off road dust and hence reduce PM 2.5 particles?

Their knee-jerk reaction is always to ban cars.

I tell you, I dread to buy a new car, period. It's getting too risky to spend money on cars.

[TechnoBloop]

Originally Posted by Singh101

-Stop stubble burning? ✖

-Stop garbage burning? ✖

-Clean up the river? ✖

-Regulate industrial emissions and waste? ✖

-Better city planning, ease congestion? ✖

-Streamlined, efficient public transport? ✖

-Enforce proper PUC checks? ✖

-Increase green cover? ✖

-Ban cars? EUREKA!!

We're governed by apathetic, despotic morons with no more than three working braincells between them all, only really scheming to stay in power and amass personal wealth while they still can.

90% agreed. But some points you said aren't so easy to do in real life. Green cover has increased a lot in the recent times, especially in Delhi and Greater Noida. Delhi has got a lot of trees now, but still their pollution is getting uncontrollable, something is going wrong somewhere I guess.

Government is trying there level best to improve the public transport facilities, they have taken up a lot of missions to revolutionize the public transport facility. the biggest example would be the upcoming under-water bridge in Kolkata's East-West Metro Corridor. That under-water tunnel is a whopping 26 meters below the Hooghly river, so that's an engineering marvel (at least in India).

Now the point of better city planning- For the upcoming new cities like Jewar (where India's largest airport is being built, it will become a major socio-economic hub), yes they should plan it well. But improving the already-existing towns in India is a mammoth of a job, population being the main reason. The lower middle class people build structurally unsafe houses anywhere they want, if you visit Noida you would understand what I am trying to say. Poor people are building structures anywhere they want, no control over anything. This makes tasks like widening the roads or paving new roads near to impossible.

But yes, I agree to all the other points.

[batish]

Originally Posted by TusharK

As part of the third stage of curbs under the Graded Response Action Plan, NCR states can ban the use of BS3 petrol and BS4 diesel cars. These measures could be activated if the AQI is projected to cross 400.

Woah woah woah! The day they do this then I'd be one of those who just barge into courts. Man, even the judges there won't have BS6 vehicles, leave alone these ministers and bureaucrats deciding this matter.

Rather than banning vehicles, won't a letter saying "Get out of this city asap, we failed to control pollution" be more beneficial?

AQI will go way beyond 400 this time too as I don't see any steps being taken by either of the states where they rule regarding stubble burning. Even the farmers organisations themselves have been asking something to be done regarding stubble since many days on twitter, but even they don't see anything moving in positive direction.

It's pathetic to see decisions like these being taken without much thought. Do they seriously think they can get AQI down just by banning cars? I'll happily sell off my BS4 diesel if this happens.

Just like 10 year rule made no difference, this too won't have much effect.

[anjan_c2007]

Appears that there are no "intelligent and extremely complex minded" Babus associated with this decision. A very bureaucratic decision by some "intelligent and extremely complex minded" Babu would have been to ban sale of diesel in the NCR. So obviously the diesel vehicle owners would drive to neighbouring states to get their fills.

And such an "intelligent and complex minded" Babu could have suggested stringent checks on diesel vehicles having such tankful fills and returning back to NCR rather than ban diesels. This keeps alive both the one million diesel vehicles and generates bribes by owners to escape such checks.

[swunkjyn]

Originally Posted by Singh101

-Stop stubble burning? ✖

-Stop garbage burning? ✖
-Clean up the river? ✖
-Regulate industrial emissions and waste? ✖
-Better city planning, ease congestion? ✖
-Streamlined, efficient public transport? ✖
-Enforce proper PUC checks? ✖
-Increase green cover? ✖
-Ban cars? EUREKA!!

We're governed by apathetic, despotic morons with no more than three working braincells between them all, only really scheming to stay in power and amass personal wealth while they still can.

I have seen this with the Governments that for them, banning Diesel cars or old cars is the best way (easiest way). They need to first calculate the sources of Pollution - Both air and water, which contribute a lot, and this is what's going inside us and what we are breathing.

I am sure, old factories will be churning more Carbon emissions, both Carbon dioxide and mono-oxide along with other gases. Have they found a way to control it - No! If they would have increased the green-cover, it would have helped too.

Target should be carbon Neutral and then Carbon Negative.

[Poitive]

Am reminded of the initial study commissioned by the state govt to IIT. Parts of an article about that are quoted below, with emphasis added. This is from the BS4 days.

Dec 10, 2015
NEW DELHI: The Delhi government may be targeting private vehicles to check rising air pollution levels, but a study by IIT-Kanpur shows that cars and jeeps contribute less than 10% of particulate matter while trucks are bigger culprits.
...
Trucks and two-wheelers account for larger chunks of PM 2.5 pollution than passenger cars' contribution of 14-15% to overall vehicle emissions. ET reviewed the findings of the IITKanpur report, 'Source Apportionment Study of PM 2.5 and PM 10`, which was submitted to the Delhi government late last month
...
"Road dust and construction dust are the biggest contributors to PM 10 and PM 2.5 as per the draft report from IIT-Kanpur their contribution in PM 10 is up to 50%. In PM 2.5 trucks contribute the most among vehicles up to 46%, the source said on condition of anonymity.
...
The person said overall pollution level goes up in winter also because of additional biomass burning for cooking as well as stubble burning in neighbouring states in November. PM 2.5 refers to fine particulate matter with diameter of 2.5 micrometres Or less. This poses the greatest health hazard as it can enter the blood stream and also get lodged in the lungs

The whole article can be read at this link.
(While reading, please keep in mind that when vehicles are being talked about it refers to all, including trucks, buses, two-wheelers, petrol passenger cars too, besides just diesel passenger cars).



It has been about 7 years and would be good to check how much has been done on the above factors. If investments have been made to manage road dust. Things that do not need investment and do not hurt elections - those are simpler to do, such as Odd-Even, banning cars etc. Two wheelers? Buses? Building infra? Stopping construction activity during peak phase? Those are more difficult/"difficult" to do. Incidentally, such decisions also tend to favour some sectors and work against others.

Road dust, construction, and "parali" burning in neighbouring states should be the priorities. Are they?

A democracy implies populist measures, not good measures. Being seen to be doing things is often more valuable to a decision maker than actually doing good. The "rich" being affected is often quite popular and are soft targets. The effect of the "rich" getting bothered enough to leave town are felt in the longer term, and is often not relevant enough in the short term. I am not saying the above against any particular section of the polity but how democracies function; also further influenced by the stage they are at and the details of their structure.
(Would not detail further due to it being a, well, political subject )

Originally Posted by TusharK

The government of Delhi could ban around 1 million diesel vehicles, including private cars, if air pollution levels cross the AQI of 450...

[Sran]

At the very least government should carry out a lengthy study, make it public and then decide according to the information, otherwise it will be a mere political theatre which will create a social hara-kiri. Right now due to political compulsion they are unable to stop stubble burning in the biggest culprit state and the easy scapegoat are diesel vehicle owners and business owners (with the proposed heavy commercial vehical ban). This will increase the burden on common man. Reminds me of braindead decisions of our courts which find scapegoat in Diwali firecrackers while whole world also do it on their special days.

These decisions are not made by administrative incharges a.k.a "babus" but by the highest echelons of political rulers. According to a RTI, number of public buses are dwindling on YoY basis in Delhi. In last 6-7 years no new buses gave been added to the fleet and have lost 700 buses due to aging or other factors. Dangerous e-rickshaws are plying in huge numbers and their slow speed are choking the traffic. The time loss and money loss by the owners of diesel vehicle owners combined with mental stress will surely increase the incentives of Pharma bros.

The Master Plan Delhi-2021 had the target of share of public-private transport to 80:20 ratio and seeing the number of buse vs private vehicles the city is nowhere close to achieving it. Two-wheelers constitute around 60 per cent of the total vehicular burden, which means they are the biggest contributor to pollution as well as deadly accidents. If public transport becomes unreliable, more people will continue to shift towards private owned vehicles and that will lead to more congestion resulting in more vehicular pollution.

According to another RTI, since November 2015, Delhi government has utilized only Rs 281.5 crore of the Rs 1,298 crore collected as "environment cess" on green projects. Additionally Delhi government also collects 25 paise on every litre of diesel sold in the city under Air ambience fund which they spend on subsidies on EV's, salaries of environment marshals(whatever salary scam it maybe), odd-even drive and biogass plant at Delhi secreteriat.

According to forest survery report 2021, for the first time in a decade, Delhi has lost forest cover. It may be as little as less than half a square kilometre, but it has happened when most other states and Union territories have shown an increase in overall forest cover. Delhi has lost 0.44 sq km of forest cover since 2019. Delhi’s geographical expanse of 1,483 sq km included a forest cover of 195 sq km, just short of 195.44 sq km three years ago. At 13.2% of total geographic area, the forest cover of the capital is less than a national average of 21.7%.

Delhi also got funds (18 crores) in 2021, from GoI under National Clean Air Programme for the 20-30% reduction in PM2.5 and PM10 concentration. No idea what results were achieved.

[RoadMonkey]

Originally Posted by Singh101

-Stop stubble burning? ✖

-Stop garbage burning? ✖

There's another to the list - burning of leaves in the autumn season. I live in a particularly green and clean township, you'd think the people would appreciate clean air and blue skies but nope, any hint of fallen leaves collected in a heap and someone will drop a lit matchstick on it.

It's almost as if people themselves don't want clean air or don't care for it much. I saw HEAPS of industrial waste and plastic household waste being continuously burn in the outskirts of Panipat City, which is now within NCR.

The governments can't seem to see beyond cars for pollution.

[VaibhavShatna95]

I believe this rule is only apllicable if AQI drops to 450+ so don't get the big hoopla.

It's a last measure of sort and a very good one at that. If somrone had researched and thought of being ecologically sensitive they would have known how harmful bs4 diesel vehicles were vs petrol/cng etc. (It produces atleast 3x pollutants than BS6 and the jump from BS3 to BS4 was marginal at best for diesel.)

Similar taxes to prevent cars from entering are applied in London I belive? In terms of taxes etc, Singapore has strict measures too. It is time to save Delhi too, it is not some small city or town. The problems are different. Every family nowadays has more than 1 car and I believe we should become more eco sensitive in our choices.

[shankar.balan]

A few months from now and we shall see this phenomenon in New Delhi - NCR.

And it will NOT be because people are driving their older, well maintained private cars.

The real reasons have been repeated ad nauseam here on this thread so I wont list them again.

[KI07]

The funny thing is that the entire police fleet is Maruti Gypsy, Toyota Innova (BSIV) and old Scorpios

[shankar.balan]

Please dont let them kill the Gypsys!
If maintained well these lovely vehicles hardly emit any muck.

Originally Posted by KI07

The funny thing is that the entire police fleet is Maruti Gypsy, Toyota Innova (BSIV) and old Scorpios

[vredesbyrd]

About time we get a new Delhi government and completely ban NGT. I don't see any other way.

[giri1.8]

What will happen if the situation remains the same after the ban? Will the government gift new cars for the people who had to let their diesel cars go?

[caffeineAM]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

But the Govt can't seem to think beyond cars and trucks.

Soft targets my friend. Soft targets. How many of us are willing to take the govt to court to make them prove their decisions are based on hard data. We simply don't have that kind of time/financing to deal with it. I don't know if we have some Automobile Owners Association that can represent our interests. Even if we did, how do we hold those people accountable. Certainly won't be a full time job for them.