[ajayc123]

About 10 days back, I had conducted a poll to find out about breakdowns during warranty here ->

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ty-period.html (Did your car break down during the warranty / extended warranty period?)

It was wonderful to see a fairly active participation from over 250 voters.

A few interesting things to note that during the warranty/extended warranty period:

- about 79% did not face any breakdowns
- about 16 % had 1 or 2 breakdowns
- 5% had 3 or more breakdowns

So every 1 in 5 vehicle owner has a good chance of facing breakdowns during the warranty period, and a reasonable guess would be that the repair cost is going to be more than “peanuts” (fortunately & hopefully covered by the warranty, but it also gives a hint of the issues that you may face post the expiry of your warranty period), besides the owner being inconvenienced.

The devil lies in the details

I further looked at the commentary provided by over 45 respondents to the poll, and saw some qualitative patterns (not statistically significant, but definitely having anecdotal value), which I am presenting in a tabular format (see table below), with manufacturer in each row & the no of breakdowns reported as the column. At the intersection of these dimensions is the number of respondents who reported the breakdown(s).

For example: Among the respondents who have owned a Ford car, 4 respondents have said that they did not experience any breakdowns during the warranty/extended warranty period, whereas 1 respondent said they had experienced 1 or 2 breakdowns during the warranty period.



As this is a counting based on the quick glance of the responses to the topic, there might be minor human counting & interpretation errors for which I apologise in advance.

Assumptions: The tabulation is mainly focussed on breakdowns. Where some cases have been described as issues, but not breakdowns, I have classified them under zero breakdown. Some cases, described as breakdown due to service lapse (e.g. not changing the oil) have been moved to zero breakdown.

What did I make out of it ?

One out of five cars may breakdown during warranty (or extended warranty) period. Even the most reliable ones are not immune to breakdowns. If we look at additional anecdotal information, many respondents have said that even though their car did not breakdown, they got parts changed under warranty. Therefore:
1. I would like to de-risk my car purchase by buying an extended warranty.
2. I should also be prepared for handling the breakdown scenario (for example, what should be an appropriate response in a situation if I require towing)

Anecdotal information provided by respondents appear to indicate that some manufacturer’s cars appear to be more prone to parts failure and replacement versus others. Some of the after sales service require high downtime (either due to multiple failures and/or waiting for parts to arrive).

If my goals are to:

1. Minimize the chances of part failure instances (to keep maintenance costs under control)
2. Minimize the chances of downtime (due to frequent breakdowns & waiting for parts to arrive)

Are there some manufacturer’s products that I should avoid ?
Are there any manufacturers products that I should prefer ?
Are there certain configurations that I should avoid?

What are your thoughts ?

(to help with the context, please provide your suggestions as applied to the B & C segment cars).

[GTO]

I think that sample size was still too small.

But overall, the one brand that gets my respect is Maruti. They have between 40 - 50% of the market (depending on the month), yet an extremely low number of complaint threads overall on Team-BHP. Their cars are reliable and as an added bonus, their dealerships are tightly monitored by the head-ship for quality of service. Of course, you can say its down to them selling a lot of cheaper cars (hence simpler cars) and using older technology (no DCTs or turbo-petrols), but still, Marutis are truly designed for reliability & durability.

It amazes me how a company has 50% market-share, but maybe just 5% of the complaint threads on Team-BHP. Compare that to the VW-Skoda group; tiny market-share, yet a disproportionately large number of complaint threads.

[mathewspaul]

Thanks for this poll. I didn't opt for extended warranty during my Nexon purchase and the car is completing 2 years soon. Its due for 2 year service tomorrow and is mulling whethwer to go for extended warranty. Due to my work from home situation, the car has seen only 12k kms till now. I had replaced fog lamps under warranty due to water entering lamps, but haven't faced any other issues s far. I have been closely following this poll. Looking at the results, I think better to go for the maximum extended warranty for the peace of mind.

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by mathewspaul

Thanks for this poll. I didn't opt for extended warranty during my Nexon purchase and the car is completing 2 years soon. Its due for 2 year service tomorrow and is mulling whethwer to go for extended warranty. Looking at the results, I think better to go for the maximum extended warranty for the peace of mind.

Thanks for your feedback.

In the past, when I had taken my car for service under extended warranty period, the service advisor had recommended a part change. I informed him to go ahead with the change , and get it covered under the extended warranty.

When I picked up the car after the service, I was told that after inspection of the part, it did not need the change.

So, having an extended warranty gets one extra piece of mind, by avoiding situations where a part change (that is not needed, but suggested by SA for reasons better known to them) can be avoided. So much for the ethics in our country

A lot of dealers service centres are ready to fleece, at every opportunity and buying an extended warranty is also an insurance against that.

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by GTO

I think that sample size was still too small.

Fully agree

Originally Posted by GTO

Marutis are truly designed for reliability & durability.

'Durability' may not be the correct conclusion.

Originally Posted by GTO

It amazes me how a company has 50% market-share, but maybe just 5% of the complaint threads on Team-BHP.

Is this skew not influenced by (lower) customer expectations and forum demographics?

[ajayc123]

Having the right sample size is always a conundrum for statisticians, and I am not one.

And of course, the responses might get skewed by the demographics of the tbhp population who chose to respond to the survey.

But a broad guidance, that I can see from one of the resource is that for a population of 5k plus ( which is true for tbhp members), a sample size of 171 would lead to a margin of error of 7.5%.

https://tools4dev.org/resources/how-...a-sample-size/

So 250 plus responses for this survey can be considered sufficient for gathering a trend. However, I will rest my case here and let statistics experts on this forum to improve upon this answer.

[Captain Slow]

Originally Posted by GTO

It amazes me how a company has 50% market-share, but maybe just 5% of the complaint threads on Team-BHP. Compare that to the VW-Skoda group; tiny market-share, yet a disproportionately large number of complaint threads.

VW-SKODA will burry itself soon. Hat's off to the people who still dare to buy a VW-Skoda car that too with a DSG gearbox.

I still have a 27 year old Maruti and this has been the most reliable car in the garage. Yes there have been some problems but this is due to the age of the car.

The older Maruti's were built very well and are easy to maintain thanks to MGP - (Parts are easily available). Others should learn a thing or 2 about opening up their spares distribution.

[som9729]

Originally Posted by roy_libran

Fully agree


'Durability' may not be the correct conclusion.


Is this skew not influenced by (lower) customer expectations and forum demographics?

Disagree.
Nowadays, everyone has high expectations of the car they buy!

No customer nowadays will accept a breakdown or serious issue, even with the lowest end variant car.
Consumer mind-set has rapidly shifted!

Only difference is that in low-end cars, feature-set is much smaller.

There are many BHPians with a Maruti as a 2nd car/beater car/car they previously upgraded from.

[Mumbgamer]

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

VW-SKODA will burry itself soon. Hat's off to the people who still dare to buy a VW-Skoda car that too with a DSG gearbox.

I still have a 27 year old Maruti and this has been the most reliable car in the garage. Yes there have been some problems but this is due to the age of the car.

The older Maruti's were built very well and are easy to maintain thanks to MGP - (Parts are easily available). Others should learn a thing or 2 about opening up their spares distribution.

MGP is one of the best parts of owning a Maruti. Easy availability of parts and parts catalogues down to the last bolt, nut and plastic clips. I had recently had to replace a plastic garnish near the windshield and it cost just around ₹70. Even the mechanic was shocked since other brands can charge ₹300+ for similar part.

I'd like the availability and price of the service manuals to improve though. I can't get the english version of the service manual for my Ertiga through mgp and it costs ₹4000+ on other sites.

Hyundai has mobis but i have only dealt with them once so no idea if their support matches mgp

[ACM]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

I further looked at the commentary provided by over 45 respondents to the poll, and saw some qualitative patterns (not statistically significant, but definitely having anecdotal value), which I am presenting in a tabular format (see table below), with manufacturer in each row & the no of breakdowns reported as the column. At the intersection of these dimensions is the number of respondents who reported the breakdown(s).

For example: Among the respondents who have owned a Ford car, 4 respondents have said that they did not experience any breakdowns during the warranty/extended warranty period, whereas 1 respondent said they had experienced 1 or 2 breakdowns during the warranty period.

As this is a counting based on the quick glance of the responses to the topic,

Very nice analysis.

A point to note:
I added to Tata and Skoda breakdowns.

But a point to consider is that it was basis my experience with them since 1998. So say Tata 20 plus years back or 10 yrs back (with Aria) could be very different from today with say new Safari).

A study limited to just last 5 years would be a more accurate representation.

[Meph1st0]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

A few interesting things to note that during the warranty/extended warranty period:

- about 79% did not face any breakdowns
- about 16 % had 1 or 2 breakdowns
- 5% had 3 or more breakdowns.

Nice analysis. Though the sample size is small, it kind of reflects the general perception.

One more thing I would like is to add time as another dimension. This will help understand if the breakdowns from the manufacturer were in the past and if the manufacturer has improved on the quality in recent years or vice versa. But the sample size has to be much bigger.

[Joelinf]

Maruti has very tight control over its francisees. That is for sure. My ECM failed just after the warranty is over. But that was entirely due to the fault of the service personnel's careless water wash. The part was changed by means of insurance. I gave a negative feedback in the feedback form. The SA called me multiple times to change the feedback. I was firm not to change the feedback. All this shows that Maruti takes feedback seriously, whereas some brands show a callous attitude towards the customers.

[voldemort]

The sample size is definitely small as others pointed out.

Because I had nothing better to do, I graphed the available data anyway, after normalizing it. This is what I got:



I'll spare my unsolicited inferences because the sample size is too small.

As an aside, perhaps somebody should catalog all reported failures on team-bhp somewhere.

[RobotMan]

Great analysis.! Reaffirms some of the beliefs I've held over the years.
Just 1 question, was the data normalized against miles driven.?
A low failure rate from cars that don't drive as much will appear to be much better than cars with moderate failures over a much higher odometer reading.

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by voldemort

The sample size is definitely small as others pointed out.

Because I had nothing better to do, I graphed the available data anyway, after normalizing it. This is what I got:

Attachment 2322521

I'll spare my unsolicited inferences because the sample size is too small.

Thanks for preparing the visual.

I agree that the sample size is too small for any meaningful analysis on breakdowns by brand.

The attempt/intent of this thread is to gain some inputs based on the members experience with various brands on two dimensions:

1. Minimize the chances of part failure instances (to keep maintenance costs under control)
2. Minimize the chances of downtime (due to frequent breakdowns & waiting for parts to arrive)

For example, my experience with Maruti products over the last two decades has been, that I have not faced minimal part failures across my cars.

For example, in my Wagon R, the alternator had failed in the tenth year at about 90k on the odo (so I would call it low on parts failure), so that’s an example of low parts failure.
Once, the car was taken to the workshop, it was replaced on the same day, so that’s an example of low downtime.

If you contrast this with other brands, in some cases many parts have been changed multiple times in the first 5 years and that would be an example of high parts failure. Moreover, in some of those cases critical parts were in back order, and the car was stranded in the workshop for 2-3 weeks.

So in a nutshell, my expectation from this post was to be able to collect something like this from the respondents:

I own(ed) <car x> from <brand y> for <z> years. During this ownership, I changed parts <a,b,c> and my car was in the workshop for <d> days. Additionally narrate your experience with the brand’s A.S.S during that transaction.

Hopefully such a collection of anecdotal info from members shall help readers towards short listing the brand in their options, in case low downtime is a high priority for them.

Hopefully, you and some other members can talk about the cars that you owned on the lines of the above template.