[Mumbgamer]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

This reminds me of the time when petrol was moved from lead to unleaded type. We were all afraid the effect it would have on the older cars without the cat con but it turned out well.

If i recall correctly some old vehicles running leaded fuel had to get hardened valve seats installed because the leaded fuel provided some protection to the valve seats.

Not sure what modifications or additives might be needed for high ethanol content fuel.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

This reminds me of the time when petrol was moved from lead to unleaded type. We were all afraid the effect it would have on the older cars without the cat con but it turned out well.
.

I don’t think it is a good comparison because of two reasons. The number of cars negatively impacted and the potential number of parts that needed replacing.

When lead was removed from petrol it was announced many years in advance. The number of cars (in Europe) was still quite small compared to what we see today. The required modification for non lead fuels was to pull the cilinder head and replace valves and or valve seats. A pretty straight forward job on cars of that era. Also, lead based fuels remained available for many years. In addition one could choose not to modify the engine, but simply add a modifier to your fuel. Perfectly adequate solution. Even today there are a good number of classic cars that have never been modified, they just keep adding the modifier.

With the unleaded fuel, if you did relatively low mileage per year, you could choose not to modify your engine at all. Just adjust valves a little more often.

The number of cars affected by the new E20 is much larger then the numbers affected by no lead in those days. Contrary to the no lead issues, there are no modifiers/additives that can be considerate an adequate solution. All them only reduce the effects of the E20. But since the effects are cumulative, it will just take longer before your engine starts to suffer.

Many parts can be effected. E.g. fuel tanks, bits inside the tank such as fuel level sender, fuel lines, fuel filters, fuel pumps, injectors, fuel pressure sensors etc. It will be hugely expensive to replace all of that. That is before we have looked into the fact whether E20 replacements parts are available for older cars.

.

E20 will harm your car just sitting still, parked!

Even with E10 we see more cars suffering from fuel problems, even though they have engine parts that can handle E10. The problem is all these ethanol fuels are not stable. Left by themselves, you are likely to end up with water in your fuel. Park your E10 filled car for a few months you might have a problem It will be more pronounced for E20. Not a problem when you use your car regularly, but long periods of standstill are going to cause problems. Always add some of the E10/20 additives to your fuel, if you are going to leave your car standing still for more than 4-6 weeks.

Jeroen

[wildsdi5530]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

E20 will harm your car just sitting still, parked!

Surely there must be an easy solution. Can we not buy the E20 in Jerry cans and distil the pure petrol out? Rather than additives to dilute the ethanol. Sure you get 20% lesser, but should be cheaper in the long run.

There must be a physical/ chemical method to remove ethanol from Petrol very easily. I'm not talking about actual distillation by evaporation at different boiling points, which could be dangerous. But some material that would selectively adsorb the Ethanol?

[aim120]

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

Surely there must be an easy solution. Can we not buy the E20 in Jerry cans and distil the pure petrol out? Rather than additives to dilute the ethanol. Sure you get 20% lesser, but should be cheaper in the long run.

There must be a physical/ chemical method to remove ethanol from Petrol very easily. I'm not talking about actual distillation by evaporation at different boiling points, which could be dangerous. But some material that would selectively adsorb the Ethanol?

All you need to do is add 2% to 3% distilled or deionized water to E20 petrol. Shake the container well after a few hours, the ethanol would immediately start absorbing the water and sink to the bottom of the container but the petrol will still be cloudy with water.
Wait 24hrs most of the remaining water/ethanol would have sunk to the bottom and the petrol will be clear.

Depending on the container you either siphon the petrol out or if you use a laboratory apparatus, you could just open the tap and drain the ethanol out.

The obtained petrol won't be 100% without any trace of water but they will surely get rid of all the ethanol. Besides its not like the petrol bunks in India give petrol without any traces of water. Just like the fuel tanks in vehicles, the petrol stations underground tank will also absorb water.

The petrol would have also lost its RON (that was boosted by the ethanol) but they do sell octane boosters.

[skler]

Once the Govt introduce the new fuel then that would be the only fuel available for petrol pump owner. I own a pump and back in the days when Unleaded petrol was introduced it was supposed to be sold along with Leaded as ULP was much more polluting in Non Cat vehicles but refineries stopped producing leaded fuel and from all our dispensing units we sold the same ULP only labelled as leaded. This is India and rules are made here mindlessly.

[enj0y_ride]

The entire discussion points to the fact that all those who are planning to buy petrol cars in next 1-2 years should take this factor into consideration. Manufactures and govt will be mute on this as it's going to impact sales especially the mass market petrol cars of MSIL.
Even if E10 coexist with E20, I am sure E20 won't be discounted , rather prices will be hiked for E10.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by enj0y_ride

The entire discussion points to the fact that all those who are planning to buy petrol cars in next 1-2 years should take this factor into consideration. Manufactures and govt will be mute on this as it's going to impact sales especially the mass market petrol cars of MSIL.
Even if E10 coexist with E20, I am sure E20 won't be discounted , rather prices will be hiked for E10.

I guess those who absolutely need to buy should go in for run down,used cars for cheap and then dump them without any qualms. It's another matter that the used car market will also collapse with this E20 business.

[KPR]

Petrol pumps in India don't have required storage capability to store ethanol mixed fuel. Not long ago many petrol vehicle owners faced difficulty with hygroscopic ethanol mixed petrol stored in regular IOC pumps.

https://www.guwahatiplus.com/exclusi...hanol-blending

[knshailender]

I can tell from personal experience. When I moved to US and was still learning the basics here, I once filled my Sonata(Embera) with E15 fuel by mistake. The effect was felt immediately. Started idling erratically, almost felt like the engine is struggling to fire the fuel.
Somehow managed to finish the fuel and filled with normal fuel. It still didn't fix the idling issue. Had to replace all the spark plugs, which is an expensive affair here mine being a V6. Lesson learnt and never filled with E15 again.
My understanding is if the car is not meant for E15, strictly stay away from it. Don't get tempted by the lower price.

[vijaykr]

Just noticed the below in Mint.



Link to article

[Gypsian]

Union transport minister says petrol will be available only for the next 5 years in India and would be substituted by indigenously produced bio ethanol. https://pipanews.com/nitin-gadkari-s...er-five-years/

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Gypsian

Union transport minister says petrol will be available only for the next 5 years in India.

What can we say about this

After five years, there will be no more petrol in the country!

He is being awarded the honorary degree of Doctor of Science.

[shankar.balan]

Force feeding ethanol to cars which arent designed to ingest it, is akin to force feeding sugars to a diabetes patient.

I fear deeply for my cars. Ethanol will eat into their rubber and metal parts.

All of this is occasioned by our all powerful sugarcane lobby. Since most educated humans are stopping or severely curtailing their sugar intake these great omnipotent vested interests have decided to focus on the next soft target, private vehicles. This will spell certain death for our older and vintage vehicles for sure. The transport ministers in this sense are ‘Death Dealers’ like the Nazi Josef Mengele.

However, I am told by some friends that there are additives and remedies.

Here is a link to a product that a friend suggested.

STA-BIL (22275) 360 Protection Treatment And Fuel Stabilizer Corrosion-Prevents Ethanol Damage, 32 fl. oz https://www.amazon.in/dp/B0081ZVBDQ/...4ZRJ9H1S85V9XC

Here is a link about whether or not our cars can survive this Ethanol onslaught.

https://www.bellperformance.com/blog...fuel-treatment

[Gansan]

^^ Petrol brands that sell at a good premium will not contain ethanol. Such as Speed 97.

Normal petrol as well as "normal premium" such as Speeed, Power etc which cost just a couple of rupees more will contain ethanol.

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by Gypsian

Union transport minister says petrol will be available only for the next 5 years in India and would be substituted by indigenously produced bio ethanol. https://pipanews.com/nitin-gadkari-s...er-five-years/

Why go through the pain of adding ethanol into something that is going to be phased out? Or is it their plan to destroy all healthy engines within 5 years with the help of 20% blend?