[explo.re]

Originally Posted by CoconutCar

I have a very simple theory why this happens. Reason is collusion between Japanese giants. Japan is highly protective of it's industrial base. But many world giants exist in there. Suzuki, Toyota, Honda. Within India this model is present in cement industry.
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That's a really interesting take. This happens in many industries, so who is to say it's not true for Jap Auto companies?

Having said that, I am convinced that the Indian market itself is a really tough nut to crack. It's not just the automotive sector but manufacturing as a whole in India is tough. The margins are wafer thin, supply chains are tough to manage, taxation is through the roof, and customers are too price sensitive. Breaking even requires high volumes to achieve economies of scale and solid control over supply chain (incl. bargaining power with vendors).

The MSILs, Tata, Mahindra and Hyundai are perhaps the only ones in the mass market 4W automotive space who seem to have cracked this code. They are able to take more gambles because their margins are protected by volumes of successful models. The VAGs, Hondas, Nissan, and others, don't really have as much headroom to experiment. A wrong product costs them much more than the aforementioned brands, hence the cautious approach.

In fact this makes me think, if Elevate doesn't work for Honda, they'll probably be in a really bad place and may face the same fate as Ford given that all other models (except city) are already outdated and/or discontinued. All the more reason that they should give their everything to Elevate. It's their make or break model in India.

[HartBandit]

Originally Posted by explo.re

That's a really interesting take. This happens in many industries, so who is to say it's not true for Jap Auto companies?

I am being an armchair analyst here, I think Honda has to really shit the bed for the Elevate to flop. The excitement is palpable in consumers, they have long waited for a more affordable Honda SUV (still don't understand why the CRV is also not on sale), and they really, really have to price it absolutely absurdly for it to not be an absolute banger of a hit.

Secondly, the Amaze is still showing some legs to sell ok-ok numbers. Even if, hypothetically, the Elevate doesn't work, Honda will still have time to bring in something smaller like the Indonesian WRV (which looks like a cracker)!

[Varun7774]

@CoconutCar: Honda's 1.5 Ltr engine with approx 120+Bhp is more than adequate to climb hill terrains. The i-Vtec are know for petty performance and they are rock solid reliable.

Coming to CVT or Manual, it is purely your choice. If you want driving experience MT, if you want convenience CVT anyday. However, both are reliable and easy to maintain.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by CoconutCar

I have a very simple theory why this happens. Reason is collusion between Japanese giants. Japan is highly protective of it's industrial base. But many world giants exist in there. Suzuki, Toyota, Honda...
India has been given to Suzuki. That's why participation from Honda and Toyota will always be below that level where it begans to hurt Suzuki. Similarly, you do not see aggressive participation from Suzuki in Western markets where Honda leads. In some regions all are present equally. Aim of Japanese Govt is to have all 3 thrive rather than have one as a causalty...In short, these 3 Japs work as cartel. Free market is a myth. Also market structure has been ruined. Kia/Hyundai also practice this .

Erm. While I sure do agree that cartels exist and that Japanese companies sure have a history of gentlemen's agreement, the dividing up of markets have been more of an organic thingy. Ofcourse, right now the Japanese govt might be taking informal steps to make Japanese companies collab with each other in the current economic-political scenario (why else would Toyota need Maruti, when they already have Daihatsu to crack the budget end), the dividing up of the market might have been a natural thing.

How Suzuki bagged the Maruti contract is well documented and was definitely not carving up of a market. Suzuki did take a shot at the Toyota/ Honda core market and become a mini-Mazda, but the Great recession killed all prospects. Honda took a shot at Maruti with the Brio and its platform derivatives. Toyota is still sore over the failure of their EFC project. Toyota and Honda have their stronghold on the ASEAN market cause of the their first mover advantage.

So I believe it is more of a maintain status quo, than a masala gangsta movie dialogue of, "this territory me, that territory you"

[pannags]

Got an update from Magnum Honda that they have commenced official bookings for the Elevate. The surprising thing is that the booking amount, although refundable, is a whopping One lakh rupees! The sales executive confirmed that there would be a docket/file number from Honda confirming the booking.

I wonder if the bosses at Honda are planning to subsidize the launch price using interest accumulated from the pre-booking amount

EDIT: Called the Sales lead at Brigade Honda to confirm the authenticity of the info received. Appears this is not backed by Honda! Brigade Honda is not accepting bookings for the Elevate yet.

[skarthiksr]

Originally Posted by pannags

Got an update from Magnum Honda that they have commenced official bookings for the Elevate. The surprising thing is that the booking amount, although refundable, is a whopping One lakh rupees! The sales executive confirmed that there would be a docket/file number from Honda confirming the booking.

I spoke to Dakshin Honda and they too take pre-booking now, but the booking amount is ten thousand.

[SedateGuy]

Originally Posted by skarthiksr

I spoke to Dakshin Honda and they too take pre-booking now, but the booking amount is ten thousand.

IMHO there is no such thing as pre booking from the manufacturers and in reality it gives no benefit in terms of being ahead in the queue

[Caffeinated]

Originally Posted by pannags

Got an update from Magnum Honda that they have commenced official bookings for the Elevate. The surprising thing is that the booking amount, although refundable, is a whopping One lakh rupees! The sales executive confirmed that there would be a docket/file number from Honda confirming the booking.

I had also called Magnum, and they mentioned the same amount which I found surprising. I think its a dealer level tactics of getting some quick money. Whitefield Honda said outright that no pre-bookings started yet, and it will start on 6 June.

[beez]

Originally Posted by skarthiksr

I spoke to Dakshin Honda and they too take pre-booking now, but the booking amount is ten thousand.

Got the same info from Dakshin Honda. They said it is not an official Honda booking but done at their level on the request of needy customers. Also said the entire amount is refundable.

Looks like dealers have found a way to get cash rolling and Magnum honda may have decided best to make hay when it shines! They want us to give them interest-free loans I guess

Dakshin people also hinted the deliveries may commence after August only. Well, we will know for sure only by June 6.

[nsharma2104]

Mod note: Trimming quoted post, please avoid quoting entire large post for replies. This affects readability especially for a mobile user. Thanks.

Originally Posted by CoconutCar

Hello everyone.
My Question is - if I buy the Honda with 1.5NA, how will it's performance be on Hills? Does it lag there? Is overtaking a pain? Does the car struggle with 4 passengers amd luggage on hills? By hills I mean, proper high altitude areas like Himachal (Narkanda/Shoghi/Theog/Spiti) and Uttarakhand (Yamunotri/Chopta). My driving is on plains as well as hills. Can my 1.5 Honda go to Spiti? My readings on forum makes me think that Diesel is better for high altitude and NA engines may struggle under load on hills. Thus, the question.

Regards

I am driving new honda city since 5 months in shimla and surrounding areas .Most of my driving has been in single laned mountainous himachal roads. So now after establishing these credentials, I can assure you that city has not yet scraped . Once or twice, plastic below bumper has touched the ground, but it has never scraped the engine belly.
Regarding 1.5 ivtec performance, it is a rocket and feels ideally mated with city. With spirited driving, you can expect fuel efficiency of around 13 to 14 kmpl.

[fhdowntheline]

The ideal winning proposition for Honda would be an SUV with hybrid engine and at least 400 litres boot. But with Honda City eHV priced above 23L, the price of the new hybrid SUV can only be expected to be Elevated further.

[Alive2Drive]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

The ideal winning proposition for Honda would be an SUV with hybrid engine and at least 400 litres boot. But with Honda City eHV priced above 23L, the price of the new hybrid SUV can only be expected to be Elevated further.

I had the same thing in mind and had pre-booked. I am unfortunately going to cancel the booking post 6th June as based on multiple confirmations no hybrid at launch. I think that will only make me inclined towards electric Car to replace. I may switch to an EV while Elevate will have an hybrid car too

I am also surprised at the number of negative comments honda india is getting for not having a panoramic sunroof. I think the segment which Elevate is entering also demands for features like panoramic sunroof (even if it is top model) . Having said that features compromise I could still live with but not without a hybrid efficient engine.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Alive2Drive

I am also surprised at the number of negative comments honda india is getting for not having a panoramic sunroof.

Unfortunately for the current Indian buyer, " uunchi" is the new " laambi" and pano sunroof is the new touchscreen.

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by Alive2Drive

I am also surprised at the number of negative comments honda india is getting for not having a panoramic sunroof. I think the segment which Elevate is entering also demands for features like panoramic sunroof (even if it is top model) . Having said that features compromise I could still live with but not without a hybrid efficient engine.

Their Korean rivals have already sold literally a million cars in last one decade and when Honda is so late to the party, they should at least maintain some feature parity here.

Earlier Honda used to charge a bit of premium for their snob value(Toyota still does it) but those days are gone now and I think the top end cvt variants of City is ending up cheaper than that of Verna.

They might be looking at sharing parts with City, hence we might see common elements like that small sunroof, that stupid touch screen etc.

Other possibility could be that these Koreans just offer fancy gadgets to disguise the questionable safety of their offerings while Honda so far has not compromised on this aspect (I rather prefer a safer car over a car that will have a thousand features that get outdated in couple of years).

Anyway, I am personally hoping the car comes with hybrid + practical boot and 5 star safety and at a competitive price. ADAS is becoming main stream anyway and so are most other features. Japanese only have "hybrid" engines as a differentiator.

[saikishor]

Originally Posted by rajshenoy

Their Korean rivals have already sold literally a million cars in last one decade and when Honda is so late to the party, they should at least maintain some feature parity here.

Earlier Honda used to charge a bit of premium for their snob value(Toyota still does it) but those days are gone now and I think the top end cvt variants of City is ending up cheaper than that of Verna.

They might be looking at sharing parts with City, hence we might see common elements like that small sunroof, that stupid touch screen etc.

Other possibility could be that these Koreans just offer fancy gadgets to disguise the questionable safety of their offerings while Honda so far has not compromised on this aspect (I rather prefer a safer car over a car that will have a thousand features that get outdated in couple of years).

Anyway, I am personally hoping the car comes with hybrid + practical boot and 5 star safety and at a competitive price. ADAS is becoming main stream anyway and so are most other features. Japanese only have "hybrid" engines as a differentiator.

I wouldn't have replied to your post(read wouldve left it with a thanks) but that stupid touchscreen got me like
Honda still has a fair share of its snob value. There are a lot of fanboys out there(yours truly included) who are eagerly waiting for this launch. Features wise I will be happy if it gets all the basics covered( safety, touchscreen, sunroof etc) but the area I am concerned about is powertrain. I really want Honda to launch this car with the 1.5 Hybrid from day 1. That will be a SOLID differentiator to the inhalers and crude oil crossovers out there. Reason for my concern is, I've been reading that it will be available only in a petrol engine format. I wish Honda proves me wrong.

Fingers crossed!