[landmaster18]

I am posting this, based on feedback from my cousin. She & brother in law - NRI returns to India who wanted to spend more time with aging parents and also drive them in reasonable comfort, were evaluating buying a German luxury car.

As it turns out, the final shortlist boiled down to choosing between the BMW 3 series and the Audi Q5. They had almost put the advance down on the 3 series until stumbling upon this video. The bit on missing features starts at 8:34 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZrpKKrF3BI

It was almost shocking that to find out they were being shortchanged on some essential safety features, which are expected on cars costing 50 lakhs and more! Much back and forth on which car to choose followed and finally they had settled on a Toyota Camry. They ultimately gravitated towards one because it has a hybrid drivetrain; is loaded with quite a lot of safety features and is a better value for money than maintaining a German car and comes with bullet proof reliability.

I thought I should post this here. I was highly disappointed that a car maker like BMW thought the Indian customers could be shortchanged. The car is not inexpensive by any means, even without the taxes and insurance. It comes in the same price bracket as in USA or Europe. Would BMW attempt to do the same in these markets? Probably not. I cannot speak of the other carmakers like Mercedes or Audi or any other maker for that matter. But the point is it is highly infuriating and disappointing. I feel cheated and disrespected - although it is not my money on the line nor am I a potential customer of BMW at this stage.

[NirDiwakar]

Yes, we don't get most of the features G20 gets in US/EU. The features which I wish they didn't skip on:
* 360 degree camera
* Sun shades (not offered in US/EU as well)
* App installation
* Remote vehicle start
* Remote car monitoring
* Auto braking

Except for the 360 degree cameras none of the features would've costed much and are mostly software based.
What makes me wonder is how almost a decade ago I read GTO's review on the then 5 series and it having heads up display. BMW could've added but I guess that's product positioning for you (330Li MSport gets 360 degree cameras).
No reason why there are so many software based features they omitted.

[SR-71]

One point that most tend to miss on pricing and end up blaming the manufacturers is the fact that the manufacturer is not responsible for the inflated price. In the case of the 3, the price of the 330i Sport on road Bangalore without insurance & TCS is 55,23,092 INR. Of this the road tax is 9,83,092 INR and the GST + Cess is 14,72,432 INR. In all we are paying 24,55,524 INR simply as tax. That is, ~44.5 % of the entire cost is simply tax. If one were to take the real value we pay to BMW it is only 30,67,568 INR or ~41K USD. This price is in the same ball park if you compare the 3 Series's entry level price to the rest of the world. And all those fancy features generally do not come in the entry level price point. So am not sure if the manufacturer is entirely to be blamed here.

One really cannot blame BMW or for that matter any car manufacturer. They are not here for charity, they have a business to run too. The humungous price inflation is all thanks to the state and central government. And what do we as a tax payer, get... horrible roads and non-existent social security!

[landmaster18]

Originally Posted by SR-71

One point that most tend to miss on pricing and end up blaming the manufacturers is the fact that the manufacturer is not responsible for the inflated price. I

One really cannot blame BMW or for that matter any car manufacturer. They are not here for charity, they have a business to run too. The humungous price inflation is all thanks to the state and central government. Before one starts pouncing that there are western nations which tax us as high - remember these nations also give fantastic value for the tax, great roads, great social security. What do we as a tax payer, get... horrible roads and non-existent social security!

My point is not to debate on whether or not we need higher road taxes or insurance. It is besides the point. That is a debate for another day and time and probably not on this forum too.

The base price of the car is quite expensive - almost the same as in Europe or USA. For that amount of money spent, it is really cheap of BMW to cut corners and skimp on features that are available elsewhere.

[SR-71]

I am sorry to say this, but it seems you have not done your homework. The 3 series base price is 41,450 USD for a bay-area zip code. If I remember right US tax is around 4%. So the manufacturer price works out in the same ballpark as it is in India. In fact if anything this base price in US doesn't even have the spare wheel, parking sensors, and live cockpit all of which come in the 330i Sport in India. So I don't think they are cutting corners in India or partially pricing it to be expensive here. Yes BMWs are expensive, they don't claim they are cheap, but they are not expensive in India alone. If they were to add all those fancy features, the price and unfortunately the tax by the same proportion will go up making the car even more expensive.

BTW, my previous point on pricing vs features is directed at the comment the you-tuber makes in the video.. about how its priced high here but misses out on the features.

[landmaster18]

Wrong. Even if you consider the US prices and apply the same amount of taxatiion, BMW is in the wrong here.

Apply it here - https://www.bmwusa.com/build-your-ow...rpn7o3/options

Consider you are going in for a more expensive 340 M series version and apply the safety packages you need. Specific model would be M340 ixdrive.

For extra convenience, go in for 2 packages - driving assistance professional package and the premium package. The total comes to around 60,525 USD. I will round it off to 61,000 USD. Now, apply the latest RBI Reference Rate of INR 75.66 to a USD - round this off as well to 76 Rs. The price in INR terms is still 46.36 Lakhs + add the 45% of taxation at which it was calculated. This comes to around 66 lakhs. Still lesser than the figure that was quoted, and for a higher model.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by landmaster18

Wrong. Even if you consider the US prices and apply the same amount of taxatiion,...Specific model would be M340 ixdrive.his comes to around 66 lakhs. Still lesser than the figure that was quoted, and for a higher model.

What is the price of a model with similar features in India ?

[manishk123]

In 2017 BMW sold me a 80 lac plus costing 530D (G30) without Apple car play activated and nor did they have an option to get it done later, even though the ability was built in. I had to ultimately get it activated from an external source.

Another stupidly annoying miss on the G30 is the power boot close function. There is actually a button given to close the boot, but the motor has not been installed for the indian version. I mean how pathetic can you get BMW?

Imagine my plight every time i go to a 5 star hotel where they have the mandatory security check. The guards invariably try to close the boot by pressing the button. I have to then roll down my window and tell them to close it manually as the button is not working.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by landmaster18

I
It was almost shocking that to find out they were being shortchanged on some essential safety features, which are expected on cars costing 50 lakhs and more!

Good thread, can you list some of the features that you find usable (for our kind of traffic) and missing locally for benefit of others who are not very good with videos (self-included).

On safety, I think, the radar-based stop and go or active cruise control are probably not offered on any Euro CKD models. Even on CBUs, this is a paid option, Lexus being an exception.

Much back and forth on which car to choose followed and finally they had settled on a Toyota Camry.

We all consider Toyota most unfair when using a conversion from the US To India, strange you found value for me on Toyota!

Originally Posted by SR-71

Of this the road tax is 9,83,092 INR and the GST + Cess is 14,72,432 INR. In all we are paying 24,55,524 INR simply as tax. That is, ~44.5 % of the entire cost is simply tax.

Originally Posted by landmaster18

Specific model would be M340 ixdrive.
The total comes to around 60,525 USD. I will round it off to 61,000 USD. Now, apply the latest RBI Reference Rate of INR 75.66 to a USD - round this off as well to 76 Rs. The price in INR terms is still 46.36 Lakhs + add the 45% of taxation at which it was calculated.

Basic GST is 28% and then cess is 20% on cars and 22 % on SUVs. You also need to factor in at least 15% customs duties on CKD and about 25-30% duties on SKD.

Also, consider the operational expenses and overheads running a CKD plant and managing marketing offices with a turnover of - around 1000 cars a month i.e 12K a Year and then compare to 360K Yearly in the US.

No doubt we don't get a fair deal but manufacturers have to make a choice, to keep luxury features or take off some of the options that are very useful overseas but becomes a botheration in our traffic. Take the example of emergency brake assist, as I mentioned elsewhere too, this is the first thing to switch off when I start, otherwise, this can go crazy the moment any human comes nearby and we all know what sort of traffic we have.

I feel the companies in lower segments are doing better, like Kia, Mahindra and likes of MG but the ones in premium segments are indeed skipping these features. Maybe in future, if the taxes get rationalised or the volumes build-up, we can see better-equipped cars.

[paras211]

My top of the line Highline Jetta 2012 came without climate control.

[Impulsivemedusa]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

No doubt we don't get a fair deal but manufacturers have to make a choice, to keep luxury features or take off some of the options that are very useful overseas but becomes a botheration in our traffic. Take the example of emergency brake assist, as I mentioned elsewhere too, this is the first thing to switch off when I start, otherwise, this can go crazy the moment any human comes nearby and we all know what sort of traffic we have.

Some "essentials" which have nothing to do with traffic are also missed-out. None of the BMW cars sold in India are connected. The central computer has no connection to the Internet. I had already cried-out here:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offic...ml#post5280920 (BMW 3-Series Gran Limousine Review (Long Wheelbase))

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Impulsivemedusa

Some "essentials" which have nothing to do with traffic are also missed-out. None of the BMW cars sold in India are connected. The central computer has no connection to the Internet. I had already cried-out here

Correct, I think we don't even get OTA updates. The same thing in MB too, though on MB, at least the car's last position as well some other commands via "Mercedes me” app are available, we cannot use the internet as a hotspot or OTA updates. Once again, smaller vehicles from Kia/ MG does have such functionalities.

[Impulsivemedusa]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

we cannot use the internet as a hotspot or OTA updates. Once again, smaller vehicles from Kia/ MG does have such functionalities.

Yes! While some of these manufacturers like KIA have connected cars, the car just simply connects to the Internet and transmits some data to the app. BMW cars are capable of doing far more than that when connected. For ex., the fuel station suggestion is not just based on distance but also the prevailing traffic conditions and the predicted distance to empty if it sees traffic information. In Eco Pro mode, it can suggest you be light on pedal to put the car on coasting if it sees a stretch that is traffic-free. There are a lot of these small features which makes the car "intelligent" when connected. It is a bummer we don't get any here.

As stated in the other thread, they dare to mention "ConnectedDrive" in their manuals when it is just not offered in India. You cannot create a digital key, cannot alter your profile over internet and synch with your car, cannot send destinations to your car. Lots of cannot-s.

But for most of us, they melt away when you are behind the wheel

[landmaster18]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Good thread, can you list some of the features that you find usable (for our kind of traffic) and missing locally for benefit of others who are not very good with videos (self-included).

We all consider Toyota most unfair when using a conversion from the US To India, strange you found value for me on Toyota!

.

The Camry is turning out to be quite good VFM actually. Apparently it has the same drivetrain as the Lexus ES that is sold in India. For the list of features, I only compared the BMW like for like

[AYP]

Originally Posted by paras211

My top of the line highline Jetta 2012 came without climate control

Does/did your car have Bluetooth? The early batches of the Jetta Highline didn't even have the Bluetooth module.