[headbanger]

With the way pricing has been going on for cars recently, I have made peace with whatever price the manufacturers offer. The market is heavily skewed in favor of manufacturers and they are relishing it.

I am currently awaiting pricing for GV/Hyryder and my back up option is Brezza. And I believe there are a lot of folks doing the same comparo. Ironically I am yet to hear someone doing Creta/Seltos vs GV/Hyryder.

[Mustang_Boss]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

Information provided by you is quite helpful for sure.

As per the provided link, Honda uses one motor to propel and the other uses Electric power. So, the primary engine is the one which provides power to the wheels in one case. Considering the battery size, the second motor would be used only when the battery is full or in specific conditions.

If it is on Atkinson cycle, i dont think, honda will make it here in small numbers. So, it could be an import and hence such high selling price.

Toyota ECVT tech is completely different. The motor is used to generate power to charge the batteries and then the power will be used by electric motors to propel.

Tesla has a 65-75 Kwh battery and moves ~250 miles. it implies, it needs ~6 KWH to move 25 miles. Considering Tesla weighs ~1700 KG. it needs more battery power to move. Now, Grand vitara weighs ~200-300 kgs less. to move 25 Km on electric power, the battery should be ~4 - 7 KWh or more, depending on how much power they always want to retain in the battery and other factors. At this point, all we can do is to correlate with other brands and take a guess.

3 cylinder atkinson cycle motors are good, refinement and reliability wise. As these motors duty is to produce electricity and not to propel, their smoothness and longevity might be similar to the reliable 4 pots.

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by Eddy

We can break our heads on pricing logic, but above a certain threshhold the pricing depends simply on what the OEM thinks it can get away with

Excellent point.

I agree that such discussion is more suited, once the prices are released. It may be a good idea to think if we should refrain from posting price speculations in the first place, or those being subject to moderation if needed.

I pledge not to make any further comments on posts related to speculated pricing.

[yashg]

I spoke with an SA from Lakozy Toyota, Malad, Mumbai today. I asked about the boot size, expected price range, display and delivery.

- Car will be back in display by month end
- Pricing will also be revealed by month end
- Expected price of strong hybrid top end is about 23-24 L OTR in Mumbai
- Boot space is 328 or 356 liters. When it was in display, they had put 3 cabin baggage sized trolleys in the boot.
- For people booking now, deliveries can be expected after November

[ashwin.terminat]

For folks who have seen both the Hyryder and the Grand Vitara - is there any palpable difference in headroom?

Checked out the Grand Vitara last weekend and the headroom was quite poor (especially for a car that will be used by people between 5'11" and 6'2"). And Hyryder has still not made its way to Bangalore (somehow).

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Mustang_Boss

it implies, it needs ~6 KWH to move 25 miles.

I don't think it will have 6kwh battery, hybrids don't need such a big battery, even their premium products like Camry and Lexus have batteries smaller than 2kwh. GV brochure shows it has the same 177Volt battery as in Yaris cross, could be ~0.8kwh just like Yaris cross.

There should not be much difference between city and HR when comparing the drivetrains.

[Mustang_Boss]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

I don't think it will have 6kwh battery, hybrids don't need such a big battery, even their premium products like Camry and Lexus have batteries smaller than 2kwh. GV brochure shows it has the same 177Volt battery as in Yaris cross, could be ~0.8kwh just like Yaris cross.

There should not be much difference between city and HR when comparing the drivetrains.

They said, it can go upto 25 kms on EV mode, hence the logical deductions with Tesla. Again, i hope you are right, but it looks like it has a bigger battery.

[Overlander]

This 25km claim set my mind spiralling as well. As mediocre as it may sound, I started believing that one can drive the first 25 kms on EV mode. Also started thinking how God-fearingly efficient it would be for a requirement like ours where the drive is restricted to 10-15 kms a day.

But then, finding literature on technology these days isn’t too difficult. One of the artefacts I read up on is available on the Toyota UK website (link). To quote from this:

How does a hybrid car work when pulling away from a stop?

This is one of the main reasons why hybrid cars are more efficient for city driving than a conventional petrol car. The electric motor powers the car, drawing on the battery for the power. Typically, up to 15mph and in reverse the vehicle only ever uses the electrical motor for drive.

So, it is only obvious that the Electric motor will assist with the first 15mph (a.k.a 25kmph) at cold start; and thereafter, work with the ICE engine. On a separate note, it’s absolutely stunning to read up on Hybrid, BEV and FCEV tech that Toyota has in its arsenal, good times ahead!

[ajayc123]

Originally Posted by Overlander

So, it is only obvious that the Electric motor will assist with the first 15mph (a.k.a 25kmph) at cold start; and thereafter, work with the ICE engine. On a separate note, it’s absolutely stunning to read up on Hybrid, BEV and FCEV tech that Toyota has in its arsenal, good times ahead!

The 25 kmpl appears to be a plausible argument. I would be surprised if HyRyder gets a much bigger battery than Camry or other hybrids in the Toyota stable.

Once the product is released, it will be clear if the 25 km is true, or a 'jumla'.

Incidentally, Maruti has not made the 25 km claim for the Grand Vitara strong hybrid.

[smilingakash]

25 km ev range-Is this mentioned anywhere on Hyrder's official brochure or has Toyota made a legitimate claim on 25km ev range on any of their advertisements?
If this was true, Toyota would have been selling the car on this point alone. Maruti the quintessential 'Kitna deti hai' brand would have probably made a meal out of this capability.
Happy to be wrong but since Maruti has not shown enthusiasm on ev range, I presume this is more of a rumor and Toyota is happily riding on it!!

[ajayc123]

Toyota had not published it, but it is widely covered in a number of news articles like this one:
Link

[bivision]

Originally Posted by Overlander

This is one of the main reasons why hybrid cars are more efficient for city driving than a conventional petrol car. The electric motor powers the car, drawing on the battery for the power. Typically, up to 15mph and in reverse the vehicle only ever uses the electrical motor for drive.

So, it is only obvious that the Electric motor will assist with the first 15mph (a.k.a 25kmph) at cold start; and thereafter, work with the ICE engine. On a separate note, it’s absolutely stunning to read up on Hybrid, BEV and FCEV tech that Toyota has in its arsenal, good times ahead!

This is assuming in every cold start, the battery is fully charged. But after a 25km ride, since there is no provision for externally charging the battery, in next cold start ICE has to generate power to run the car and recharge the battery. So eventually it averages out. You don't get any benefit just from short burst of runs. Or am I missing anything?

[Overlander]

Originally Posted by ajayc123

The 25 kmpl appears to be a plausible argument.

Once the product is released, it will be clear if the 25 km is true, or a 'jumla'.

Jumla! Well, some people get away just fine with them. So what the link I shared earlier states is that the car would ever run on battery power for reverse and/or up to 15 mph (i.e. ~ 24 kmph) after pulling off a stop. This, coupled with the fact that the engine would cease every time the car stops (start-stop functionality), it is not inconceivable for the car to return 20-25 kmpl.

Originally Posted by bivision

This is assuming in every cold start, the battery is fully charged. But after a 25km ride, since there is no provision for externally charging the battery, in next cold start ICE has to generate power to run the car and recharge the battery. So eventually it averages out. You don't get any benefit just from short burst of runs. Or am I missing anything?

Do refer the link shared of the engine on the UK website; and if I understood it correctly, the battery will assist the car to move on pure EV mode typically up to ~24 kmph, whereafter the engine will take over. So depending on my love affair with the accelerator, the assistance could last 4 seconds or 1 min. This is the case for every time I pull off the car from a stop.

Like it was said earlier in the thread, seems like someone over enthusiastically got carried away by misstating the car is capable of doing 25 km runs on pure EV mode.


Link: Toyota UK Website

How does a hybrid car work when pulling away from a stop?

This is one of the main reasons why hybrid cars are more efficient for city driving than a conventional petrol car. The electric motor powers the car, drawing on the battery for the power. Typically, up to 15mph and in reverse the vehicle only ever uses the electrical motor for drive.

How do hybrid cars work when reaching a complete stop?

Both the conventional engine and electric motor turn off and the car switches to battery power to run everything it needs to – radio, air conditioning, lights etc.

[Sagz]

Keeping aside all the technical discussions for a while, I have been wondering from the very beginning why the hyryder strong hybrid variants don't have the blue highlighted toyota logo unlike the other toyota hybrids. Any idea anyone?

[ajayc123]

There were multiple news articles a a few weeks back regarding the price reveal on 16-Aug. Is this on track or moved out? Any buzz?

Link