[svsantosh]

Reporting from Dubai where petrol prices went up ~10% in one shot!!!

Originally Posted by GTO

On the other hand, hybrids can be the game-changing technology of "today". Camry Hybrid owners report getting 14 - 15 kmpl overall in the city. Can you imagine what a 1.5L Hybrid Ciaz, Vitara Brezza or Creta-rival will do? Easily 20 - 25 kmpl.

I work with V8 trucks like Raptor Gen 1, Silverado, Sierra Denali, Ram TRX, Shelby F-150 and the smaller V6's like Raptor Gen 2 & Gen 3 and the Jeeps JK, JT and JL, Toyotas FJ & LC V6 & V8, Patrol Y61 and Y62 (V6 & V8). Not to forget the newest kid Jeep 392 (V8 Hemi!).

Here not many car owners talk in terms of 'Kitna Deti Hai...' but more like what is your full tank range. Typical V8 Full size truck fuel efficiency on a cool day without traffic, 10th gear, no stop & go can be 6.5 Kmpl.

Avoiding toll roads, traffic, stop & go, evening rush hour - you can expect 5 kmpl.

Off Road (My business ) - 3 - 4Kmpl pretty much is the best.

Imagine the impact of such a product in a market obsessed with fuel efficiency numbers

Now, suddenly a 10% inflation on a product that drives the whole economy is a worrying thing. Not sure how things will pan out; product deliveries, local courier, Uber, logistics, employee travel, cost of show cars, customers and friends driving a off road truck in a ever increasing fuel price market is giving anxious moments.

Link to media...

Now, rant aside...

To relate with the technology in this post. POWERBOOST is the latest Ford F-150 (one up to the ecoboost) - a full hybrid option on an already best selling truck in the world.

I saw one speedometer showing a 1000 kms range on a truck that otherwise goes 550-600kms on a full tank. Even if that means double the range (from 5kmpl to 10kmpl) on a 400bhp+ truck, I see the whole V8 (N.A & Boosted) customer base going in for the V6 hybrids soon.

PS - V8 resale prices RIP!

[banana]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Reporting from Dubai where petrol prices went up ~10% in one shot!!!

.......
I saw one speedometer showing a 1000 kms range on a truck that otherwise goes 550-600kms on a full tank. Even if that means double the range (from 5kmpl to 10kmpl) on a 400bhp+ truck, I see the whole V8 (N.A & Boosted) customer base going in for the V6 hybrids soon.

PS - V8 resale prices RIP!

Valid point.

I would let Darwin announce the winner for the best vehicle propulsion system.

I do see some possibility of mix and match though. Maybe someone can go crazy with the VW/Skoda active cylinder tech or as many others have also done in past and add a hybrid drive to it.

I'm pretty sure hybrids are the way to go (at least for now), not sure in the current form.

[firstdrive]

Originally Posted by GTO

On the other hand, hybrids can be the game-changing technology of "today". Camry Hybrid owners report getting 14 - 15 kmpl overall in the city. Can you imagine what a 1.5L Hybrid Ciaz, Vitara Brezza or Creta-rival will do? Easily 20 - 25 kmpl. Imagine the impact of such a product in a market obsessed with fuel efficiency numbers. An Innova Petrol Hybrid giving 15 kmpl will pull a lot of customers away from the diesel variant which has traditionally been the preferred engine.

Bring it on, Toyota & Maruti.

The moment we hear Hybrid engines everyone’s discussing about how fuel efficient they are and comparison with diesel variant.

Is there any statistics on how the maintenance cost would in comparison with diesel?

I am a complete noob on this topic, looking at all the excitement in this thread and considering Maruti would be mass producer for India what would be the ownership cost and any long term niggles one should expect?

Would be great if experts can chime in their experience!

[ridehard]

I've waited forever for hybrids to go mainstream, and then this news here and now.
But I feel that it might be a little late for this, given that it might take another 2-3 years. 2025, may be?
I guess Toyota and Maruti must be betting(or lobby?) on Electric to not go mainstream for at least another 10+ years, to be even considering this now.

[Carma2017]

I don't think we have to wait till 2025. It is likely to debut in 2022 itself in the Suzuki-Toyota joint development vehicle followed by multiple vehicles from both stables. And like someone mentioned before, it wil definitely come coupled with a 1.5L engine among other options. I think a mileage of 20km+ in real world from a S Cross/Creta sized vehicle would be very reasonable to expect from this set up. But for starters, this set up would be definitely more expensive than a Diesel but lesser compared to an EV.

[sbm]

Originally Posted by firstdrive

The moment we hear Hybrid engines everyone’s discussing about how fuel efficient they are and comparison with diesel variant.

Is there any statistics on how the maintenance cost would in comparison with diesel?

I am a complete noob on this topic, looking at all the excitement in this thread and considering Maruti would be mass producer for India what would be the ownership cost and any long term niggles one should expect?

Would be great if experts can chime in their experience!

I am no expert on this but as per my knowledge there are 4 main compartments in hybrid drive, IC engine, Motor, Power transfer device and Power control unit. The power transfer device is responsible for switching power between ICE and motor and I think this will the weakest link but Toyota has been using this tech for quite long so any shortcomings must have been addressed till now.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by sbm

I am no expert on this but as per my knowledge there are 4 main compartments in hybrid drive, IC engine, Motor, Power transfer device and Power control unit. --

You are almost right and that is how the Toyota Hybrid System works!

Here it is:

[amalji]

Originally Posted by firstdrive

Is there any statistics on how the maintenance cost would in comparison with diesel?

I will highly recommend the video to get more insights into the maintenance for Toyota hybrid engines. -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5j8nJrMc8

TLDR

• Hybrid Batteries are expensive. If not maintained well, it's going to cost you a bomb to replace. Note: Toyota does give 8 years warranty on a hybrid battery for the Camry and Vellfire. I hope, it continues even on the Creta rival.
• Maintaining a hybrid battery is as simple as maintaining the battery compartment air intake filter. But, if you ignore it, you will end up degrading the battery gradually.
• A well maintained hybrid battery can easily last 10 - 15 years which is almost the life of the car.
• Even when you have the battery risk, there are a few other components which will either last longer than a conventional vehicle or is absent. For eg:- No alternator, no drive belts, no starter motor, lower frequency of brake replacements due to regenerative braking.
• Buying a 2nd hand hybrid can be risky. If not maintained well and critical components are near End Of Life, replacements can cost a bomb.

[amalji]

Just checked out the Yaris 1.5l hybrid mileage test on city traffic video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=523A0fGBEy4

23 kms of city driving gave around 2.8l / 100 kms with engine off for 70% of the time which is close to 35 kmpl and saves a hell lot on city traffic pollution as well!

[vinaydatla]

Autocar is reporting that this is a full EV skateboard and this EV is expected to launch in late 2024 in Europe and 2025 in India. This vehicle is expected to be globally manufactured from Gujarat plant.

https://youtu.be/MsqfqrQBTJw

[amalji]

Originally Posted by vinaydatla

Autocar is reporting that this is a full EV skateboard and this EV is expected to launch in late 2024 in Europe and 2025 in India. This vehicle is expected to be globally manufactured from Gujarat plant.

https://Youtu.be/MsqfqrQBTJw

That's a different vehicle designed ground up for EV. The hybrid that's planned is different to the EV plans that Toyota/Maruti has for India.

[vinaydatla]

Originally Posted by amalji

That's a different vehicle designed ground up for EV. The hybrid that's planned is different to the EV plans that Toyota/Maruti has for India.

Okay. Thank you for the clarification. It's indeed great that both will be available.

[shortbread]

Toyota will need the hybrids for its own model portfolio. It's primary sellers are the Innova and Fortuner, arguably India's numero Uno long distance cruisers. The range limitations of EVs will not work for taxi/fleet operators who ply long distance daily. Pairing the hybrids with larger petrol engines rather than 1.2 or 3 cyl units show that it's intended for larger models.

Maruti on the other hand might find the complexities and cost of hybrid tech a mismatch for its low priced, small, family centric model line up. Here the relative simplicity of EVs as well as the improving range/cost parameter of batteries mean going electric might make more sense to the Maruti line up. Better late than never!

[mohan41]

If the EV infrastructure gets well established in another 10 years, what happens to the resale value of these hybrid vehicles ?
Can they be used as pure EV by charging the battery directly?

[Carma2017]

With establishment of decent levels of EV infrastructure (similar to CNG in North India and that will be very difficult to achieve), you can expect appx 30% of the market to be EV. Hybrids will have decent re-saleability even then.