[2000rpm]

Guys,

This is a thought provocative thread which I am writing for community members to introspect. I have been thinking about the same but never uttered a word to risk offending people but the KSRTC thread triggered me to write this (and the sunday morning).

My point is, are we auto-enthusiasts yearning for random useless features rather than focussing on important features, while also complaining about prices growing. I want to illustrate with a few examples below

Needs I have never understood, which a lot of people express on the forum

1. Auto dimming IRVMs - For gods sake, its a flip of a switch, if you are lazy enough to flip a switch, you shouldnt be in the drivers seat.
2. Powered seats - How many times do you guys adjust your seats? If you are chauffeur driven, this is irrelevant anyways.
3. Cooled glovebox - How chilled can a cooled glovebox make your drink? The delta temperature between the glovebox and car cabin wont be too much. Also if you really are stocking up drinks, you can just buy them whenever you take a break.
4. LED lights - I havent understood the obsession about the blinding white lights, but I dont completely understand the lighting technology

Things I think people should ask first, before other features like above

1. 4 star safety before Android auto touchscreens
2. Dashcams before 360 degree cams
3. Pedestrian safety features before panaroomic sunroofs
4. All 4 disc brakes before turbo charged engines

New features I think which actually add value

1. TPMS
2. Parking sensors
3. Rear AC Vents

This is not just a safety vs novelty features thread but a broader thread which would like to question the existence of features which are not really needed. Who are these people who are trying to solve a problem which no one needs to be solved thus adding to the costs.

[BLACNWYTE]

I get where you are coming from and I too have had similar thoughts.

Our Panda (Creta SX+ 2017) was overpriced for the features it offered. It still bugs me that I didn't get the speed sensing door locks, ESP, all wheel disc brakes and full feature MID some of these features were offer in cars of lower segment and not in the premium offering.

The full LED setup, panoramic sunroof, touchscreen controls and connected car technology are nice to have features but not a necessity or deal breakers for me.

If the manufacturer provides the safety features that actually works and makes a reliable car, I'm willing to pay a premium for it. I would rather have a safe and reliable car with decent kit rather than a smartphone on wheels with all bling.

[Aroy]

I also think that a lot of features are really not needed by many, but desired by few.

It is time that we are able to "customise" the car as possible in some countries for some models. There should be a base model with all safety features and every thing else available through customisation.

[adi.mariner]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

[*]4 star safety before Android auto touchscreens[*]Dashcams before 360 degree cams[*]Pedestrian safety features before panaroomic sunroofs[*]All 4 disc brakes before turbo charged engines

You make a very good point regarding the infotainment systems and sunroofs getting more traction with the buyers rather than the active and passive safety systems. However most of them are not aware that the safety systems (Airbags, ABS, etc) will save your life one day. But infotainment and sunroofs are usable everyday. I feel that the Safety features of the car should be the same from the base till the top model. And all the other bling features should differentiate the base and top models.

[condor]

Agree with OP to some extent, but definitely the direction of the thoughts. Safety first, good to have features next. Some examples form the opening post:

360 deg camera does help in safety, and not necessarily less-useful

LED lights ? As long as they are 4300k. 4300k is closest to daylight. A person typically spends about 11 hours in day light, and the eyes are used to this. 6000k is all bling, and not very useful in rain. or even night, as much as 4300k lights are.
If anyone has doubts, do check on any illuminated highway section for the old Sodium Vapor lamp lighting vs the new LED cool daylight type lighting.

DRL's - another one that many say is good. Not in our conditions, and definitely not the 6000k cool daylight type lights.

All4 disc brakes are good to have, for the simple reason that most of the stopping action is at the front, and rear brakes only supplement the front brakes.

[Tgo]

I can say the transport ministry has got its priorities wrong.

Will addition of an 4 air bags, reverse parking sensors and seat belt pretensioners save the guy riding a bike in the opposite direction like that’s the norm?

Will it save the guy jumping the traffic light early in the morning or late at night when the traffic cop isn't present?

Will it save the guys who don’t follow lane discipline?

Will it prevent unfit vehicles from plying on the roads?

Will it prevent overloading of commercial people transport vehicles?


Shouldn’t the focus be on enforcing a zero tolerance policy for traffic violations, licensing and vehicle misuse?

[solaris007]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

Guys,

Needs I have never understood, which a lot of people express on the forum

1. Auto dimming IRVMs - For gods sake, its a flip of a switch, if you are lazy enough to flip a switch, you shouldnt be in the drivers seat.
2. Powered seats - How many times do you guys adjust your seats? If you are chauffeur driven, this is irrelevant anyways.
3. Cooled glovebox - How chilled can a cooled glovebox make your drink? The delta temperature between the glovebox and car cabin wont be too much. Also if you really are stocking up drinks, you can just buy them whenever you take a break.
4. LED lights - I havent understood the obsession about the blinding white lights, but I dont completely understand the lighting technology

Things I think people should ask first, before other features like above

1. 4 star safety before Android auto touchscreens
2. Dashcams before 360 degree cams
3. Pedestrian safety features before panaroomic sunroofs
4. All 4 disc brakes before turbo charged engines

Not sure I quite agree with this. While safety is definitely important this should never be an either-or situation - what is the point of having a bullet proof car if it does not have any nice-to-have creature comforts? Will we allow manufacturers to give us 5 star rated cars but with manually operated windows? The features you mentioned are not essential by any stretch of the imagination but safety and features (to a reasonable extent) are both expected by car buyers today.

Going through the non-essential features you mentioned:

1. Auto-dimming IRVMs - Sure it is just a flip of a switch - but that is one more to-do item that you have to remember to switch on and off as required. You can say the same thing about keyless entry - sure it is just a button press but the immense increase in quality of life is undeniable. This feature is really such low hanging fruit for manufacturers (in addition to auto-dimming ORVMs). My previous car had it and I really do miss it with blinding LED lights becoming commonplace on our roads.
2. Powered seats - This feature by itself is useless as manually adjusting seats is usually much faster. However, when you add memory seats - this becomes indispensable. Everyone has their favourite seat setting and unless you are the only person driving the car this becomes essential. Even if you are the only driver, spouses or valets keep changing the seating position. My current daily driver has manual seats and it irritates me to no extent to go back to my favourite setting every time someone changes the seat position.
3. Cooled glovebox - Completely agree - never found this to be useful for me.
4. LED lights - LED lights have come to be associated with premium cars. Our minds have now become conditioned to this and so we expect it in our cars. Even simple things like number plates lit with white LEDs just seem to elevate the premium-ness.

Now onto your expected features:

1. 4 star safety before Android auto touchscreens: Again, this should never be an either-or, we should expect both. The quality of life improvement from having things like Google Maps show up in the large central screen vs. mounted small phone screen is immense. On the other hand, wireless Android Auto/Carplay is unnecessary.
2. Dashcams before 360 degree cams: They serve very, very different purposes. Both are required - especially for larger cars.
3. Pedestrian safety features before panoramic sunroofs: Agree, sunroofs are too overrated.
4. All 4 disc brakes before turbo charged engines: Agree, no point having powerful turbo engines if your car's brakes are poor (I am looking at you Tucson).

[EV NXT]

Since the trigger for the issue was the KSRTC episode let me quickly describe the EPIC DISASTER that is Kerala roads:

1. The vehicle density in Kerala dictates 8 lane highways as NHAI guidelines. Against this 2 lane without dividers are all that is provided.

2. Kerala’s number of vehicles per 1,000 population is 425 compared to the country’s 18 per 1,000 population, China’s 47 and United States 507 as per the World Development Indicators.

No vehicle safety mechanism will compensate for single lane where 8 lanes are required.

Kerala roads are a veritable death trap because of the lack of support from the powers that be leading to infrastructural failure of epic proportions.

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by Tgo

I can say the transport ministry has got its priorities wrong.

Will addition of an 4 air bags, reverse parking sensors and seat belt pretensioners save the guy riding a bike in the opposite direction like that’s the norm?

Will it save the guy jumping the traffic light early in the morning or late at night when the traffic cop isn't present?

Will it save the guys who don’t follow lane discipline?

Will it prevent unfit vehicles from plying on the roads?

Will it prevent overloading of commercial people transport vehicles?


Shouldn’t the focus be on enforcing a zero tolerance policy for traffic violations, licensing and vehicle misuse?

The part in bold is not in the hands of the Transport Ministry. Law & Order is a state subject. The Union Government has no powers of enforcement in this aspect unless in emergency conditions. The 4 airbags along with seatbelt pre-tensioners may help a bit more in saving the life of a vehicle's occupants in the worst case scenario. The number of videos we have seen on this very thread of vehicles running over children/people while reversing speak for the necessity of reverse parking sensors (Especially on larger vehicles).

As for errant bikers, I would say that those who don't give a damn about their own lives certainly don't deserve a second thought from the rest of us. If it were not for the illogical and antiquated convention/legalities followed (bigger vehicle is always at fault etc.), I would say its natural selection at its finest. Even so, the Transport Ministry has made pedestrian impact compliance mandatory (Autonomous Emergency Braking (AEB) and other measures in the pipeline) as this is the maximum that the Union Government can do (apart from fixing the death-dealing road design of National Highways in this country) under the powers it has.

Originally Posted by EV NXT

Since the trigger for the issue was the KSRTC episode let me quickly describe the EPIC DISASTER that is Kerala roads:


2. Kerala’s number of vehicles per 1,000 population is 425 compared to the country’s 18 per 1,000 population, China’s 47 and United States 507 as per the World Development Indicators.

That surely cannot be right. According to the MoRTH Road Transport Year Book 2016-17, India had 32 vehicles per 1000 people back in 2016. It could only have increased since then. I think that you got this erroneous information from The Hindu. Not arguing against the rest of your post though.

[Dry Ice]

Simple - electronic wizardry is easy for the manufacturer to implement and market. Building a safe car isn’t as straightforward or easy, not to mention expensive. Tech gets cheaper every year, chips shrink, become more powerful but the basics of building a strong body shell pretty much remain the same, even increase in cost with the raw materials getting costlier.

Till now, all manufacturer’s have been trying to differentiate themselves on the basis of features. For the non-enthusiastic populace that’s what attracts them. Even the engine gearbox combo is a secondary item to think about. So, its not really surprising that they are drawn to “features”. Safety is but a footnote in most marketing materials (sponsored videos, articles included).

The (welcome) change in the recent years have been our homegrown manufacturers taking a lead in safety related conversations and making it a topic of discussion among the masses. The Govt also giving positive signals about testing all cars for safety, making safety tech mandatory is another good sign. This will definitely improve the awareness in the long term.

Inspite of all this, the unsafe cars we have on our roads today will not be swapped out over night. This change will take its own sweet time.

[Akshay6988]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

Guys,

My point is, are we auto-enthusiasts yearning for random useless features rather than focussing on important features, while also complaining about prices growing. I want to illustrate with a few examples below

Needs I have never understood, which a lot of people express on the forum.

I'm agreeing with the tone of the thread - that is as enthusiast we should be askingfor safey features more than the "gimmicks" as you are saying. Let me discuss about these features

Auto dimming IRVMs - For gods sake, its a flip of a switch, if you are lazy enough to flip a switch, you shouldnt be in the drivers seat.


My creta has manual switch IRVM, it is dangerous to flip the switch on the go with one hand. Most of the times, I end up pressing the SOS button on the mirror itself - a design flaw. But hey if one is paying north of 15lakhs ₹, these features make up for complete ownership


Powered seats - How many times do you guys adjust your seats? If you are chauffeur driven, this is irrelevant anyways.

Very useful feature if multiple people in family are going to use the car. And it's way better for adjustment compared to manual levers.


Cooled glovebox - How chilled can a cooled glovebox make your drink? The delta temperature between the glovebox and car cabin wont be too much. Also if you really are stocking up drinks, you can just buy them whenever you take a break.

Agreed this feature is not necessary, but some may find a use for it - storing wet face wipes !


LED lights - I havent understood the obsession about the blinding white lights, but I dont completely understand the lighting technology

Agreed with you wholeheartedly on this ! Current crop of LED headlights on the mass market cars are useless, outright dangerous for road users. BMW, Audi headlights are far superior and they work without blinding other users.

Average Indian car buyer comes from lower to middle class and all he's looking for in a car is cheap to own, reliable and fuel efficient which can carry him and his family safely compared to bike. If people wished for these features, Maruti and Hyundai would have shut the shop years back and Tata would be ruiling the Indian car market But this scenario is slowly changing and people are inquiring about safety ratings and features so that is a step in good direction.

This is not just a safety vs novelty features thread but a broader thread which would like to question the existence of features which are not really needed. Who are these people who are trying to solve a problem which no one needs to be solved thus adding to the costs.

This statement sort of generalizes car buyers. If we go by must have vs useless features, cars don't need music system, AC, sunroofs, leather seats, purifiers and what not. But when you pay certain price, you expect all these novelty features as standard. Can you imagine a Bentley without leather interiors ? Or a Roll's Royce without it's Spirit of Ecstasy ? Manufacturers provide these novelty features because people demand these. No point in arguing about what one likes and dislikes.

[SmartCat]

Most consumers are aware of accident/death risk on our roads. To reduce such a risk, they will simply take public transport (bus/train/airplane) when going from one city to another.

A relatively safer car does not give a typical consumer enough confidence to drive from one place to another. GNCAP can give 10 stars if they want to, but it still does not build confidence in anyway.

Now that road safety risk has been eliminated (in his mind), the consumer is free to choose the car he wants (for city commute & rare short highway drives) based on brand/price/features/fuel economy etc.

[ron178]

I understand where you're coming from, and for a long time I thought it was baffling why people didn't prioritise 'obvious' things like safety. But I realised that the decision is the end consumer's choice.

Of course, I'm thrilled that many consumers today have vehicle safety as a top priority in their purchase decisions. That's because I consider it important. That doesn't mean I should make fun of someone who doesn't.

What should change is the fact that many consumers do not know about these things at all: there are many buyers who don't know the function of, say, side impact airbags, or consumer crash test ratings. That is a bit of a problem: would the buyer have made a different decision had they known its importance, or if they had known that not all cars in a segment are equally safe? That's why it's important to inform consumers.

If the consumer is already informed about the importance of these technologies, then they are, and should be, free to make their own choice of whether they want to factor it into their purchase decision or not.

As a consumer forum we can, and should, do our best to accurately inform buyers of these systems, but it's also important to respect each buyer's priorities, whatever they may be.

[androdev]

We generally progress from "no pocket money to eat out" to "all you can eat buffet" to "à la carte". Indian car buyers are in the buffet meal stage and hopefully will progress to preferring quality over quantity. We are relatively very new to buying cars and it is not reasonable to expect so much wisdom and maturity so soon.

[adisan]

If I can ask a question in return:

Are buyers not limited to whatever options are provided by the OEMs? Do buyers really have a say as to what features they would choose to pay for? Regardless of the class or segment or variant of cars on offer?