[GeeTee TSI]

As an owner I recall the years where there were no cars in the showroom to upgrade from the Polo/Vento (The Jetta, Passat, Tiguan had all disappeared, one by one).

However, I agree with some comments made earlier about Taigun not 'feeling' like an upgrade to current owners especially as the cost cutting aspects become evident. The drive trains are fantastic (1.0 as well as 1.5) and should appeal to first time customers entering the VW fold from the hatch/entry sedan segments. The packaging also has been excellent addressing the gripes of cramped interiors.

Within the same brand we expect an upgrade with "other things unchanged". I hope the Slavia/Virtus provides such an upgrade opportunity, else it is going to be a stretched (or delayed) upgrade to the next higher segment

[Oomph11]

This is an excellent thread.
For starters, Volkswagen and Skoda India entered the Indian shores with truly global products and established themselves as a true premium global brand. Once an individual drives Volkswagen it’s very difficult for them to shift to other brands. The driving dynamics were it’s USP. But soon VAG group realized that it needed more products and needed to get to the pulse of the market. Strangely it took them more than 3 years to “Indianize” the MQB platform yet they didn’t realize that Indian consumer has become smarter.
- They chose away from making a big Suv even though they had the capabilities to do it.
- They chose to stay away from diesel when it was available in-house.
- They chose away from plonking useful features like 360 degree camera, advanced connected car tech, panoramic sunroof etc.
- They chose away to poor interior quality when customers expected otherwise.
- Inspite of all of this they priced the car at insane premium, despite claiming localization of 95%.
- They chose to blame the Indian road conditions for not providing ADAS features.
- They made the car for India but couldn’t have a sorted fuel pump shows their approach?
No doubt the engines and driving dynamics are good, but it was already expected of the group, what was more expected was a more VFM product. Driving dynamics are no longer USP’s. There are other good driving cars in the market.
I feel there was lot of difference in the strategy they depicted they want to implement and strategy they actually implemented.
In short at present VAG group have made a premium priced car rather than a premium car
Unless both carmakers realize that Indians are not fools anymore, they will have a tough time.
PS- I really wish they stick to their DNA and make premium cars at competitive prices with their 95% localization.

[TJ02]

Well I have been a VW group fan and recently have added the Taigun. Honestly the car does not feel a big let down in terms of quality compared to Polo & Vento. The seats are fabulous. The ride & comfort is miles ahead compared to Koreans. I have been test driving numerous cars before finalizing the Taigun.

I think it is more of negative publicity happening on social media. There are some corners cut like no anti pich window, all window auto up & down etc. But we should also realize how since last one year commodity prices are increasing, it is very difficult to manage costs when things are so volatile. A pre Creta facelift that used to cost 17 lacs OTR for the top model is above 21 lacs OTR. Similary Venue top model used to be 12 lacs OTR and now has crossed 13.5 lacs OTR. Same is the story with Nexon.

To anyone who is looking forward to CSUVs I would request them to at least consider the German's before taking the final decision.

[driver52001]

The feelings people are getting now about VAG products in the Indian market can't be ignored. It is such small stuff that when compounded over a period of time become huge. By then it would be too late. With Ford, GM etc people had started getting something-is-missing-but-can't-put-my-finger-on-it feelings long before they had to shut shop. Consumer is king. When he senses something amiss, it's probably true. VAG may gamble on it, like it will pass, and it wouldn't be felt in the short run. But they will lose the marathon if these small gaps are not addressed and are left to build up.

[McLaren Rulez]

The best upgrade I can see as a VW Polo owner is the MG Astor.

I think that says it all. People buy cars for different reasons but for me, the from-a-segment-above feel matters. Cheap plastics, obvious cost cutting like that horrendous looking rear wiper, crappy roof liners, etc. go a long way in turning customers away before a TD ever occurs.

They have sort of got it right with moving towards SUVs and with the engine gearbox combination but their rivals are not exactly sleeping in those departments either.

[theabstractmind]

I haven't seen the new twins in person, but going by the videos, the first look of the cabins aren't as confidence inspiring as the previous generation of VW or Skoda cars - eyes perceive quality. That for sure is a let-down. Then cutting on features - horn, auto down power windows, etc. Are a bigger let-down. Why spend more money on a car which doesn't feel as good? After all an excellent drive is taken for granted with the VW/Skoda cars, so the perception of quality and upgrade should not feel a compromise (let go a few for others), but a real upgrade (retain the existing features or perceived quality and then get some more).

[abhkop]

I honestly was expecting VAG to launch the twin SUVs at a premium price than competition BUT checked all the key boxes : Drive Performance, Build Quality, Interior Fit & Finish and Safety. Was expecting it do the groundwork for providing better after sales service

But, VAG has shied away from its strengths in search of aggressive pricing. [Flashbacks to Ford strategy]. Result is that the twin SUVs are overpriced for the value it offers.

The least VAG can do now is to show that their after sales service has improved by quickly resolving the EPC issues.

[johy]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

This is the biggest mistake of VW. If VW can come up with Taigun with a competitive price, why didn't it launch the 6th gen Polo with lesser features just like the latest gen Indian i20?

Someone on another platform or perhaps another thread, I don't clearly remember which, mentioned that the Taigun should be considered as the 6th Gen Polo! Not quite, in my opinion. A hot hatch is a hot hatch.

It is truly sad, as as enthusiast that VW has not got the new gen Polo, 4 meter rule or not - I think it is just unfair and also brings down the brand value not just for the public in general, but even in the eyes of enthusiasts.

I think the biggest gripe is the absence of a good sales-service network. It is imperative in these times to have a good dealer/service network.

Coming from a small town/city, the VW dealership closed down a few years back, and none has opened since. Plus there is a small sad-looking "workshop," which is not even registered as an official service center. In the meantime Kia/MG have opened sales/service outlets, which are bringing in customers and revenues.

Due to the above reasons, when looking to replace my T-Jet with a nice driving car, I went with the I20 NLine, instead of the Polo GT.

[MaheshY1]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

Launching new models is one thing but I don't understand the reason behind not getting the newer version of Polo!

This is simple. It's the MQB A0. When you can sell a ~20lakh "SUV" with A0, why would you sell the same platform in a 7-lakh hatchback? It dilutes the Kushaq and Taigun.
Even Hyundai aren't using the i20 platform with the Creta.
A0 is an expensive platform. A sedan or Creta-rival seems like a suitable fit for this to make it a worthwhile investment. Polo on A0 will become overpriced.

[shortbread]

Lacklustre & overpriced, that's the immediate opinion looking at VW's range. Sales falling globally. The profitable model line up of Audi & Porsche making the business viable.

[Heart_Revs]

VW twins are competing with Hyundai on every front without competing on price. That's where things are going south.

1. While people will throw brick bats, I would like to say that their design language is no more elegant. There is some in-your-face elements and unnecessary cuts and creases. Subjective as much it is, I believe the elegance and stately air is missing now. That's -1.
2. The interior quality is taking a major hit. -1 again.
3. Their made for and tested in India products are giving troubles in the beginning of the ownership. Another -1.
4. General perception about their service commitment and trouble shooting skills are not encouraging either. -1 some more.
5. Features! One gotta be joking.

So what remains is following:
1. Safety - While Bhpians value it paramount, we form maybe 0.1% of car buying community. What is the choice of 99.9% other car buying junta is well known. So these Germans can't sell their cars on safety USP to Indian public.
2. Ride and handling - raise hands who understand what these words mean. I am sure 99.9% junta doesn't have a whiff of what it is.
3. Ah the price factor!

So it is not difficult to see that they, while make good automobiles, do not have what India wants. And that's the very reason why things will continue to remain difficult for them.

[achyutaghosh]

Agree that when VAG came to India, they were able to establish themselves as a premium brand that, as the saying goes, gave 80% of the big 3 Germans at 60% of the price. Over time though, this value proposition has eroded to an extent i believe due to the following reasons-

1. Performance- Other players have upped the performance game- for example Hyundais are quite sorted, there is very little difference in performance between an N-line i20 vs the Polo.

2. Price- The value advantage that VW had in price over the Big 3 has reduced- today a Tiguan Allspace can cost pretty close to an X1. The Kushaq feels built to a price as compared to a Seltos.

3. Features- VW was a feature leader 10 years ago. I still remember my 2014 Jetta having heated mirrors and what not back then! Today though, they are no longer the industry leader on this front. The Chinese and Koreans, and now even Mahindra are ahead in the game- probably still not there in the feature execution but they will get there.

4. Design and Engine Tech- True that VW DSGs and TDI/TSI engines were the best there was in the past, but here too the competition is catching up. And the basic mechanical failures in their heaviest India centric punch- Kushaq and Taigun is definitely not helping. Even on the design front, interiros or exteriors, there is a limit to how long you want to peddle the "timelessness" of it all.

5. Strategy- If there is one thing to learn from Ford, GM, Fiat- it is this that a 2-3 car half hearted strategy does not work in India. VW still has a 2-3 car strategy and that too it is not executing well. The punch needs to be stronger. After so many years in India, you cannot afford to throw weak punches.

The world is changing quickly for automakers. Long shelf lives, multi use power trains, common sourcing for parts- these are things of the past. The EV sledgehammer is going to hit quicker than anticipated, and not in the same manner across the world. You got to be nimble, focused and dare i say, paranoid. Yet from VW India management- all i feel is that they are still doing us a favour by being in India.

So the moot point is VW stood for affordable luxury & performance, but that is a positioning that other brands are quickly getting towards. Plus they are goofing up the basics. Quo vadis, VW?

Is India an important market for them? If yes they cannot afford to throw weak punches.

What are they doing right globally that they can think of implementing in India?

How can they reduce their product life cycles and update cars regularly, without the consumer having to break the bank?

To date, the best car i have owned has been the Jetta. But do remember- VW= people's car. But in India people's car is a Maruti. SO where does that leave VW?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by CarNerd

Launching new models is one thing but I don't understand the reason behind not getting the newer version of Polo!

Well, if Volkswagen doesn't bring the latest Polo, Skoda will - being the group leader for India and all!

Not kidding - A Kushaq owner was surprised to note that his screen displays the new VW Polo infographic instead of the Skoda Kushaq. So yeah, it's here already!


Source

Jokes aside - I just hope this has some MQB-A0-IN significance and is not a copy-paste error of sorts that no one noticed till production go-live.

We are essentially getting the Polo sedan once again in the form of Virtus and Slavia - so the only real blocker for VAG to launch the hatchback is the sub-4m rule. In fact Mr Boparai, Managing Director of Skoda-VW India had made it very clear earlier this year.

“If this sub 4-meter rule goes away, we will definitely look at hatchbacks again”

[AnandB]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Take the 40 - 45L segment. I would in a heartbeat have bought a Tiguan or Kodiaq over anything else (accepting the measly petrol efficiency and even accepting higher routine cost of maintenance). But I would want a hardy, reliable, ‘normal abuse’ friendly vehicle in exchange and I am simply not confident enough that either of those VAGs would provide that. If I must live with relatively less lack of reliability or less abuse friendly product, I would rather pay 15L more and get a sparingly used Discovery Sport or XC60 or even an X3 (which have either one or the other issue) instead of the VAG.

Re: abuse. I can't say about Tiguan but i took my Kodiaq recently to Ladakh and i feel it performed way above my expectations and much better than my previous Santa Fe would have performed handling terrain. And i gave it decent amount of normal abuse by taking it off-road and driving on no proper roads. Except for the higher GC that Endeavour or Fortuner would have provided (i didn't need it anyway) i felt my trip was much more comfortable compared to what it would have been with them. I drove almost the whole trip on my own (5500 of 5800kms/16-day trip) and never felt tired even when driving daily. It's only done about 24k kms so maybe reliability is too early to tell but i couldn't be happier with the car (more so as i have it remapped despite forgoing warranty in the process). I also have the previous gen Octavia and the only upgrades i feel that can better these would be the more expensive Germans. Any other car in or below their price range would be just a lateral move at best. My dad who drives the Octavia wants to change to an SUV as he feels much more comfortable in the Kodiaq so we might get another Kodiaq when the new one arrives.

I have been to Skoda showroom recently and they have lot of footfall now, much more staff and much more sales than before with the Kushaq. I think they will find decent success with Slavia too. I believe they have positioned themselves well and their targets are realistic and more focused on profits than high volumes. There are also customers who would prefer exclusivity that Skoda/VW provide because of low sales. I too feel unless you drive thousands of kms each month for low/normal use they are perfectly fine and reliable.

[VER_10]

Usually the trouble is with the mindset of the core engineering team of the product. Products coming from Indian or Asian countries have cost in their mind right from the beginning. It is ingrained in our minds.

Compare this to the Eu and the North American companies with a rich set of Things Gone Wrong in the past. A small change to one part would remind them of a failure due to a similar change in previous programs and wouldn't get approved. That is why their engineering is very robust. Suddenly, you ask such a set of engineers to design something at 75% of their usual cost and they go for the most changes that are easily available to them (like the headliner).

Unless, you have Indians (Asians?) designing a product for India it is less likely to click in a competitive segment here. Example- First gen Ford Figo. For them it is only $1. For us it is 70 rupees.

Having said all this, doing this regularly would also be difficult for these companies. Because, it would mean investing a lot again in another new country in terms of infrastructure (R&D, Proving Grounds etc). Also, this set up would be exclusive for India- where profit margins are very thin. The volumes vs the investment is a call they have to take and usually they divert their attention to cash cows like China or North America.