[CliffHanger]

With Mahindra bringing in full-fledged ADAS and other mainstream manufacturers likely to follow suit to increase sales, I'm just wondering -- in an highly undisciplined country like ours with haphazard road behaviors from almost the entire population, there is no chance the electronics are going to work properly every time, resulting in plenty of danger to every road user - with electronics assisted missiles all around wondering what to do amidst the chaos .

Shouldn't the government step in and regulate the driver assist electronics and automation in parallel to what we as a country can handle, based on detailed analysis and study? I'm surprised Mahindra could launch the ADAS XUV700 (I could already see pics of rear ended XUV700s with reason cited as likely ADAS behavior which the driver behind couldn't predict) with no approval whatsoever, going to show how dumb we are as a country.

[shancz]

Well timed, I was thinking of the ADAS in particular.

Govt doesn't intervene since it hasn't in the past for luxury marks and this is a safety feature. But with our driving mannerism or lack thereof they become dangers to other road users like a car slowing/stopping abruptly.

Although in essence I welcome the advent of ADAS but with the general understanding of basic systems and driving manners/rules very poor, real life scenarios might cause unnecessary loss of life, limb, property and heartaches. But I don't have any suggestion either.

If only we had a relatively stringent driving licence and enforcing system but we have what we have.

Are we ready? I can't say but better sooner than later on safety.

Proceed with caution and keep distance are the only ones that come to mind and would request the manufacturers to explain the system in detail to each and every buyer.
This can be easily tracked with their feedback calls.
If willig/feasible this can also be verified by the MoRTH/Traffic department over phone calls since the number of vehicles is still low.
Will also give them the limelight for being "advanced/modern".

[saikarthik]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

I'm just wondering -- in an highly undisciplined country like ours with haphazard road behaviors from almost the entire population, there is no chance the electronics are going to work properly every time, resulting in plenty of danger to every road user - with electronics assisted missiles all around wondering what to do amidst the chaos .

Shouldn't the government step in and regulate the driver assist electronics and automation in parallel to what we as a country can handle, based on detailed analysis and study? I'm surprised Mahindra could launch the ADAS XUV700 (I could already see pics of rear ended XUV700s with reason cited as likely ADAS behavior which the driver behind couldn't predict) with no approval whatsoever, going to show how dumb we are as a country.

Self-quoting to add to your concern

Originally Posted by saikarthik

Absolutely, a worrisome point. The driver should be well educated on the use of these features and even so, there are few issues. Now, imagine having few cars with ADAS on road, and they take action to avert a collision (an emergency braking act) there is still a chance that the car will get into rear end collision from vehicle without ADAS coming with no headway.

Drivers should be held responsible for any incidents as these are support features (unless it is due to technical fault).

Educating and familiarizing new drivers is a long term process and should be started as early as possible before deployment of such solutions.

Though your concern is valid and yes our country offers the scenarios that are nightmares for any human or AI or ML(machine learning algorithms) can predict, it is better to have these technologies than not having them in certain situations. Hence, the ability to turn them off when not needed becomes more relevant. For example, I would like to have adaptive cruise/Lane change assist on expressways/NHs but not on other roads.

The system is regulated, but not regulated. As it sounds confusing, the system is not mandated by CMVR, nor it is evaluated by ARAI/ICAT except for the electromagnetic interference and general acceptance tests on electronics and not on functions (as not mandated). But any manufacturer who introduces these systems refer to the standards and regulations of some sort, and for us mostly we refer ECE and they try to design to comply that requirements. Also, the ADAS has detection, decision and actuation parts. Even if the detection and decision is not completely tested by mandated regulations (as of now), the steering system, braking system that has to comply to our regulations are part of it. And, in our CMVR, if not mandated systems are present they still have to undergo certification as per some published AIS/ECE standards. And there is a third part, where the evaluation done jointly by supplier and OEM. For a system like ADAS, the real world data and performance reliability is must and it should satisfy the usually 95% false negatives and false positives cases. It's that real world reliability that boosts the business for this supplier of ADAS and we can trust (well carefully and 90%), of their self-interest if not their credibility.

Finally, that is why these systems are categorized as "driver assistance", means human drivers are responsible to maintain control and take decisions. Read their owner's manual and you will know that the OE/Supplier takes whatsoever responsibility on legal issues that come with any mishap.

Refer to my previous thread on how these systems are classified and designed - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...logy-adas.html (Understanding Autonomous Technology and ADAS) .

[pannags]

To put it bluntly, forget Drive Assist, we are not even ready for Cruise Control.

I can't use Cruise beyond a few minutes on a highly regulated corridor like the new airport road in Bangalore, thanks to lane cutting, overspeeding, and lane blocking.

Of course, not mixing up safety with convenience here. We will definitely do well to have electronics that improve and enhance safety, and that's exactly what calls for drawing lines and putting some ground rules in place.

[StarrySky]

I remember that there a thread not so long ago on whether cruise control is useful in India, with many members expressing their doubts/reservations about it.

Now cruise control is a highlighted feature in many reviews.

I guess ADAS will follow the same path.

[lsjey]

Safety features in all shapes and forms are useful and should be welcomed. If the user of these features is not well versed in the functionality, then there will be issues, though.

The conditions prevailing in our roads warrants all the more such features IMHO.

I'll be willing to pay for Lane keep functionality and Adaptive cruise control any day.

Regards,
lsjey

[audioholic]

I have had my career in this domain so let me share my personal views. Considering the premium charged by the MG Astor for the ADAS kit is less than 1L rupee, even though it has a much elaborate system compared to the XUV700 I feel this should be the case with all cars at least more than 10L rupee where the buyers can choose these features at least as an option. Of course for those who still believe in manual transmissions and mechanical systems, they can opt out of ADAS. But for those who want to have it they must definitely be given an option.

Due to my presence out of India for a while I havent actually tried out the systems in the XUV and the Astor. But I am curious to try it out and compare that to what I work on. If manufacturers can make ADAS systems for the Chinese market with chaotic traffic, its not impossible for India. What is currently on offer is none of these fancy AI/ML stuff but a rather determinate and mathematical system which is predictable. Its also possible to adapt the behaviour to suit our conditions better, like reduce the intensity of braking so that the vehicle wont get rear ended and things like that.

Coming to the readiness, there is never going to be a day when our traffic gets so organised we can then call it ready for automated driving. It would be the other way round. As a starter, I would really like commercial vehicles to come with simple autonomous emergency brakes(AEB). Nothing more than that. Followed by passenger cars after that. These two changes would lead to prevention of accidents on the road due to improper distance, sleeping at the wheel, crashing into parked trucks and so. Even if the system can reduce the impact speed from 100kmph to 40kmph, that would also bear an influence on fatalities.

The comfort features like Adaptive cruise control can follow later. But once this starts to become mainstream, it will also become more usable. In Germany almost every commercial vehicle is equipped with at least a cruise control and AEB and on the highway, you have a constant stream of these vehicles doing 100kmph and maintaining consistent distance. That itself will improve the highway driving experience. So when we are slowly getting world class infrastructure already available in India, why not world class equipment?

And in 2021 if someone claims cruise control is still unusable in India or not a necessity, then I can only say that they havent driven enough highways nor doing it right. Some people set too high speeds on CC and when they cant maintain it, they complain that its unusable. However thats not how you use CC. You set speed to the average speed on the road like 80-100kmph and then accelerate manually when required. In the Crysta I think even my dad can manage extended periods of CC use which he has loved.

[GTO]

Absolutely not. Forget Mahindra & MG, I have used the driver-assistance systems of the best from those who have years of experience (Mercedes S-Class & Volvo) and they still came up painfully short on Indian roads. These systems are amazing for USA, Europe, Japan etc. where the level of road discipline is high and the roads & infrastructure are top class (we don't even have lane markings on expressways - LOL).

Driving in India is too unpredictable, no one follows rules and driver / vehicle quality are poor. These systems end up shell-shocked when the unpredictable happens.

India isn't ready for reliance on these systems and I don't think she will be in my lifetime. My first task when starting the S-Class' 6-cylinder engine was to disable the auto-braking as it would suddenly brake unnecessarily (our margins on the road are 10% that of Europe) and I was afraid someone will rear-end me! Like, it would unexpectedly SLAM on the brakes.

[Akshay6988]

Forget fast 6 speed lane highways, hefty traffic fines and all these ADAS and safety features. What we really really need is a stringent driving license process as they have in Europe and USA. The entire license system needs a reform so as only skilled enough person gets the driving license and not every Tom, Dick and Harry. I am of firm belief that these reforms will only change the traffic madness and higher road accident mortality rate in India. Coming to the relevance of thread - we'll be seeing lot of XUV700 and MG Astors getting rear ended ! I shudder to think how these safety features will behave in the dreadful Bangalore/Hinjawadi traffic !

[antz.bin]

Any new tech comes with its 'higher than fair' share of costs that have to be paid by the early adopters. Indians don't have that kind of money to fund such systems as early adopters.

The tech, once mature, becomes mass adopted and cost for every new user is much lower. That is when it will be affordable enough for India.

Basically, India is ready for this tech, more the merrier! But the tech itself is not ready for India.

[SideView]

Personally I feel the driver assists are not ready to tackle all the scenarios in developing countries. But as these are AI enabled only way is to train them over time with real data.

Will it be 100% fool proof -> No.

But it will definitely help in some scenarios like auto breaking when driver falls alseep etc.

[AkMar]

I voted for NO. Indian roads are simply not ready for ADAS kind of features. Traffic sense is totally missing.

[saisree]

By mistake voted NO.

I welcome all these technologies that make the driving pleasurable. The one that needs a repair is those Moths on the road driving with out a sense.

Please note Rear ending happens even today with cars that don't have any system in place. Its we, who are not able to maintain a safe distance from the car in front. Remember reading this quote some where in this forum, "If the bumper of the car in front is not visible completely then he/she is driving too close and is a bad driver". In this case ADAS actually helps.

[Axe77]

Completely against it. There is no semblance of order on our roads and like some have said it could actually create more dangerous situations where the likelyhood of ADAS could trigger a rear ending situation. It’s how I am often cautious to check my rear view mirror even when I’m lining up to stop at a red light, particularly if its early morning, late night or when traffic is thin. Clowns here might take it for granted that the car ahead would beat a light instead of stopping just because its early hours.

No data to back this but I fear the unintended consequences of ADAS kicking in will outweigh any possible benefits in a country like ours.

If ADAS is becoming mainstream at the very least one should have the ability to opt out by toggling a button or whatever - I do hope that’s a flexibility that never goes away. If I can help it, I would actively seek out a variant without this feature and I really hope manufacturers add this as a standalone optional extra. I would be disappointed if I have to side step a top variant should I want one only to avoid ADAS. After all, of all the glitches possible, you don’t want a situation where the ADAS operates despite you having switched it off.

[fiat_tarun]

I see India being ready for ADAS, but ADAS is not ready for India !

As a technology it is very relevant for our chaotic roads and will help prevent some accidents and fatalities. As I have an insight into how ADAS development works, these systems categorize all 'objects' that it may encounter on the road and takes a decision based on the object detected and what it recognizes it as - for e.g pedestrian, animal, cyclist, biker, etc. The system will react based on this classification (faster, slower, etc.)

For India, the number of such 'objects' are just too many and unlike any other region. An ADAS supplier has to extensively test and develop algorithms to develop an India spec. object model to be able to operate effectively well.

As of now, I believe OEM's must be following standard NCAP defined objects and launching the systems in India which over time will get better with more data, similar to how Tesla has improved their ADAS system over time.

Having said this and a big user of cruise control on my highway drives, I think adaptive cruise will be a usable feature and something I look forward to using in the future.