[mugen_pinaki27]

Since I live in Delhi-NCR, the 10-year rule on diesels is bothersome. The mileage and torque that diesels offer is very tempting and a rarity on their petrol counterparts. Lately, I have been gravitating towards EV's a lot since the Delhi Government subsidy coupled with negligible registration charges and adequate charging points makes buying an EV a strong choice. If Tata and MS can bring some strong EV's, wouldn't mind going for one IMHO.

[som9729]

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Originally Posted by Black_Star

My family's first car was a Tata Indica DLS and our current car is the Toyota Etios Liva GD, both of them are Diesel cars.

The biggest selling point of Diesel cars (for me) are their mileage and great low end torque because at times I need to carry a lot of plants and other materials in my car, and thus having a Diesel engine helps out a lot.

Great Car
I too have a 7 year old Etios Liva.
Can vouch for the great torque.

Recently I saw a brand new Etios Liva from a distance, on the roads in Hyderabad, (It looked new and had TL)

Any one here know if this is a old stock being sold or something like that?

Originally Posted by yadavsunil

I have been driving a Diesel (Scorpio, Tata Manza & Audi Q3) for last 12 years. Now moving back to Petrol (Booked Seltos DCT & Taigun GT), whichever comes first.

Run an old car if possible for a couple of years & then decide after the dust settles!

[Vipin Kumar]

Though I voted for "no matter what....", I will have some reservations. It is not "no matter...". I believe the govt can restrict diesel vehicles in some prudent fashion and still allow for them. What is problematic will be the same person/families having so many diesel SUVs, cars, etc.

I will buy diesel for various factors like better average, torque, relatively economical, suitable for long trips, etc. I will have a diesel vehicle as long as diesel vehicle is available in the market.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by OffRoadFun

Wrong. The Americans hated diesels primarily from their experience with diesel cars introduced in early 80s due to starting problems in cold climates and other issues. Introduction of Common rail and Direct Injection and turbo fixed all the problems long back but that perception is not gone. Another factor is diesel is actually costlier by at least 20% in US than gasoline so that makes it a bit unattractive besides limited availability of diesel on gas stations.

I have worked in Detroit and lived in US. Diesel is a dirty fuel because it is sticky and leaves stains easily. That was the perception of general public. In US, maximum people tinker with their engines on their own. So, the feeling about a fuel is personal in nature. GM Diesels with their breakdown issues definitely played a role in American distrust. In fact, I have worked on the Multi jet Diesel project for India, and although GM was involved, FIAT kept them at arms length and used to joke a lot about GM Diesels.

Also the PM levels of even Euro VI Diesel is unacceptably high. No matter what we Indians and Europeans think, Diesel is not a fuel for the future and with China having no interest in Diesel, the future is anything but Diesel.

[ArTigor]

I currently drive a diesel Tigor, my car covers at an average 20000 kilometers a year(it ran 54k km in just 2.5 years), any petrol or turbo petrol can never be an option to me, due to lower fuel efficiency. CNG due to its unavailability in rural parts of the country becomes unviable. But back of the mind there is always a guilt about polluting the air, hence I have made up my mind that I will use this diesel car till as far as possible, at least next 5-6 years and then switch to electric, I hope by then if not 400 km of real world range in slightly affordable EVs, atleast charging infrastructure improves manifold. I know there is a lot of debate over the source of electricity in India still being coal and the arguement over by using EVs you are keeping your own courtyard clean but polluting someone elses backyard, but I am optimistic that the way we are progressing by leaps and bounds into green electricity production, there will be a positive change in next decade, and eventually we would breathe cleaner air.

[OffRoadFun]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

I have worked in Detroit and lived in US. Diesel is a dirty fuel because it is sticky and leaves stains easily. That was the perception of general public. In US, maximum people tinker with their engines on their own. So, the feeling about a fuel is personal in nature. GM Diesels with their breakdown issues definitely played a role in American distrust. In fact, I have worked on the Multi jet Diesel project for India, and although GM was involved, FIAT kept them at arms length and used to joke a lot about GM Diesels.

Also the PM levels of even Euro VI Diesel is unacceptably high. No matter what we Indians and Europeans think, Diesel is not a fuel for the future and with China having no interest in Diesel, the future is anything but Diesel.

DPF takes care of the particulates. EURO Vi PM emissions are same for gasoline and diesel at 0.005. Only NOx emissions are higher which is taken care by catalytic converter. EURO VI mandates 0.006 for petrol, 0.008 for diesel. Hardly any difference.

The perception may not always reflect reality. Sticky fuel is a perception. Again, every fuel has pros and cons but if fuel efficiency for environment and import bill, diesel is attractive option. And I am not even mentioning the low end torque for a diesel. Where petrol wins hands down is racing applications where bulky and long (due to higher compression ratio) diesel engines are unsuitable

[OffRoadFun]

2019 BMW 330i vs 2019 BMW 330d:
Whats there not to like in a diesel?

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by low_rider

It is not about emission norms. The transporter lobby is at the throats of the Govt for subsidized fuel. Once the private vehicles (at least a substantial chunk) moves back to petrol, then diesel can be cross subsidized by costlier petrol.
...

Originally Posted by Carma2017

... Also the PM levels of even Euro VI Diesel is unacceptably high. ..., Diesel is not a fuel for the future and with China having no interest in Diesel, the future is anything but Diesel.

Don't we all Diesel vehicle users love them for their high torque, sturdy nature, effortless drivability and excellent fuel efficiency
At a nearby mall parking lot with a steep 30-35° ramp, all I do is let go of the throttle and watch my diesel car climb up the steep ramp effortlessly while almost idling away.

The hard reality is that Diesel engines are on their way out for most passenger car segments in the next 10 years. Most auto companies have stopped investing more on Diesel R&D and most diesel engines will get phased out post BS7. One Eg: Innova petrol-electric hybrid is just around the corner, a year max from my sources.

Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv

.... EV is here to stay. .. no worries about saplings on the side of the road getting affected, no worries about staying put in traffic with the AC ON,

True that EV is here to stay, however the Lithium based battery is not an eco friendly and sustainable option at large scales.
Apart from lithium mining and battery disposal related environmental issues, every lithium battery comes with a 4 tonne CO2/carbon footprint just to manufacture one, which is equivalent to 32 thousand KM of petrol emission. It simply means you have already polluted the equivalent of 32K KM emissions just by buying an EV.
Also when EV sales scales up, the power demand will need to be met by fossil fuel power plants to generate electricity.
Your emissions just got moved from within the engine to a centralized power plant. That sapling on the road will still get affected until solar/wind and other renewable energy sources replace fossil fuel based plants.

EV is an excellent choice for two wheelers for local intra city commuting where the limited EV range is sufficient.
For passenger cars, EV as a primary vehicle will not be a practical option until the real range increases to atleast 600 to 700 KM. Until then, there will always be that range anxiety (which may stop you from turning ON that AC in traffic and lose range)

I would be comfortable in switching to an EV as a primary vehicle when the range crosses 1000km per charge.

[MaheshY1]

Depends. I love my diesel Beat's performance. It's adequate by all measures and adequate is all I ever wanted. Except in FE. There, it easily stays over 20kmpl, no problems at all.

But, I don't mind the new turbo petrols either. These have good drivability. Especially with the auto-clutch transmission, they're the perfect balance between manual control and ease of driving. But, the diesels are still superior in terms of reliability, performance and FE.

If I had a budget of 20L for a vehicle, I'd buy the Sonet diesel over the Seltos, ideally, with the auto-clutch but it doesn't exist. The Sonet gets the same diesel engine as the Seltos with similar torque output and is smaller and lighter and Seltos. So, I can expect better performance and FE in a car that has almost the same features as the Seltos in a smaller package for way less money.

I really want someone to make an electric car with a 5-speed manual or CVT. This combination can drastically increase the range per charge while giving better torque feel and cost per km than diesel.

[pjnayak64]

My personal feeling is YES.

The argument of diesel and petrol prices are almost the same holds no water, as the mileage you extract out of a liter of petrol is almost 2/3 if not 1/2 of that with a liter of diesel with a similar sized motor.

Further, those used to diesel vehicles will find it extremely difficult to get used to petrols because of the heavy right foot.

When BS6 compliant diesels are available, I don't see the point to worry about.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Diesel's redline is much faster compared to petrol's for obvious reasons. But yes even petrol's can be free revving - like a big CC NA petrol engine (Ferrai's V12's and prev-gen NA V8 AMG's are well known for this).

Forget the Ferraris and AMGs what makes a diesel rev quicker according to you than a petrol? A diesel's components weigh more and that's the reason why they redline so low since the reciprocating mass is high. They simply physically cannot rev quicker than a petrol or perhaps my understanding of the internals is flawed?

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Well, I beg to differ here on performance and handling, eg - a diesel manual compass is significantly more fun to drive than its petrol version.

Please refer to my previous post. This is why I said when comparing the diesel to the petrol diesel only holds an advantage in terms of mileage. Obviously particular models might tell a different story since manufacturers would offer engines based on what they have spent decades developing and what the market trends are/were. It would be much better if you were to compare a model with all available engine options than one with just a few. There's no point comparing a 2 liter multijet to a 1.4 liter petrol in a 1.5 ton mini suv and then saying diesel is better.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Similarly, for big/heavy cars, a petrol powertrain option should also be heavy (V6/V8), etc. which I am sure you know that how thirsty are they.

Nope. Why do you think diesels weigh more? Its because diesel as a fuel itself requires a much higher temperature to combust effectively. How is this achieved? With a much higher compression ratio? What does that mean? The block has to be immensely more sturdy and thus heavier than a petrol. With a petrol, even if it has more cylinders, you can still make the block and a vast number of other components out of aluminium however you have to stick to iron for the most part, and loads of it for a diesel. That's the reason why diesels are categorically heavier machines. As an example, there is a 150 kilo difference between the 340i and 340d variants of the G20 3series.

[n_naik]

My first car in 2008 was a petrol swift. While i didnt think of fuel type initially, within months, i started worrying about the mileage. I hardly drove it in the next 7 years. Sold it at 35k on the odo in 2015.

My budget was well within the top end petrol model of Ertiga. But i went for middle variant of diesel since i thought i needed a diesel even if it was from a lower variant. Since then, i have driven it for 1 lakh 40 thousands kilometers. From kanyakumari/Rameshwaram in the south till Kolhapur in the north. From tirupathi/Kalahasti/mantralayam in the east to mangalore/karwar in the west keeping Bangalore as the base. Trust me, the incredible mileage and the joy of driving a diesel has kept me going. If not for the multiple lockdowns in the last 18 months, i would have crossed 1.75 lakhs km by now.

I feel, going for the diesel car was the best decision of my life. If electric cars dont become mainstream soon, then my next car will also be a diesel.

[992TurboS]

I'd vote for "No matter what, I will still buy diesel (NEW) until it ceases to be available".

I switched from a petrol car to a diesel in 2019, love the low end torque and the mileage. I've observed significant savings of ~Rs. 6500 / month and that's ~75000 / year!

My recent drive on Mumbai - Pune expressway resulted in the mileage of ~26kmpl!

Originally Posted by GTO

- End of the day, when I'm buying a car, I'll buy whichever is the better engine option for that particular model, whether petrol or diesel or electric.

Yes, I'd always consider getting the better engine option for, although I'm not confident about EVs in India, given the bleak options of fast charging stations and it's infrastructure.

[X0mbIE]

For me petrol or diesel is not the issue. Turbo charged or NA is the deal breaker for me. I feel for our road conditions and traffic the best way to enjoy driving a car is not by revving it to the limits because most of the time you don't have enough room to rev the engine to the limits. Also if you traveling with family they will start complaining of noise even though it's from a sweet NA petrol engine. So to keep the noise levels low and have fun at the same time with short bursts of power plus better fuel economy, get a good tubo petrol/diesel car.

[anjan_c2007]

I have one diesel and two petrols in my garage. I cast my vote for the second option that expresses my opinion to some extent.

Yes, I would opt for a diesel as long as its viable and legal to use one. But never with a Delhi/NCR registration. A turbo CRDI or whatever one badges it like, is as peppy as a petrol engine, outdoing many smaller non turbo petrol engines of the numerous boxy cars on sale. The torque delivered at lower rpm's by diesels cannot be matched by the petrols. And plus, the combustion under high pressure and temperature with compliments to Rudolf Diesel the inventor (very sadly he died in 1913 at age 55, mysteriously) is much, much more efficient than the spark ignition system of Nicolaus Otto's petrol engine. As the vapour losses during ignition are minimal in diesel engines, most huge SUV's with diesels are able to deliver two figure kmpl figures.

While new generation diesels emit lower levels of carbon dioxide than petrol engines, they emit higher levels of NOx. And the old PM emission malady of diesels has been well checked courtesy particulate filters.

A quote here that I came across in euobserver,. com :-

The European Commission unveiled on Wednesday (14 July 2021) a proposal that would effectively ban the sale of petrol and diesel vehicles in the EU from 2035, as part of its massive set of revised climate and energy legislation - the so-called 'Fit-for-55' package.

The EU would require CO2 emissions of new cars in 2030 to be 55-percent below the level in 2021 - a much higher target than the existing goal of a 37.5 percent cut.

And from 2035, new rules will make selling new fossil fuel-powered vehicles impossible in the EU. The Netherlands and Denmark are expected to introduce such a ban earlier, in 2030.

At the same time, the analysts studying such a EU proposed ban say that this "no" is only on new sales and not on existing ones that are in use with owners.

But the fact is that India is a class apart, where we are in deep slumber till the flood water level reaches up to our head. Hence, courts, policy makers, Greens and climate pressure groups can at any moment give a clarion call to impose ban both on sales of new diesels and a ban on existing ones inn use too. That's a far fetched thought but not impossible, given the way things happen and going by recent turn of events.