[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

No diesels for me anymore. It’s not just about the 10 year NCR deadline but has a lot to do with fuel costs.

Last year, I bought a Jeep Compass as a replacement for my ageing diesel City, to go with my Hexa. The idea was to use it as a touring vehicle, my family is big and we need two cars. Diesel prices have jumped by 35% since. The cost calculation of taking two big diesels on a long driving holiday has turned on its head. Suddenly, flights seem so much more convenient and in many cases, actually cheaper. God knows how much fuel prices will rise more, it is endless.

In NCR diesel hardly makes sense unless you travel quite a lot . But EV aside, what would be an alternative to diesel compass? Petrol compass(or any other petrol car from same category) would have burnt your pocket more, CNG conversion will void your warranty. Only possibility is looking into cars from lower category. EV is definitely the one to go for, however there aren't many options and range for highway drives is limited.

Coming to pollution, Yes agree with Gadkari that Diesel cars cause more pollution but petrol cars are not sane either. What do we do to trucks buses and trains? They account for 80% of diesel consumption. Two wheeler are purely petrol powered. Just for private registration, petrol cars will be causing more pollution than diesel as they are selling significantly more.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

In NCR diesel hardly makes sense unless you travel quite a lot . But EV aside, what would be an alternative to diesel compass? Petrol compass(or any other petrol car from same category) would have burnt your pocket more, CNG conversion will void your warranty. Only possibility is looking into cars from lower category. EV is definitely the one to go for, however there aren't many options and range for highway drives is limited.

CNG is not a bad or scary word for someone like me who has lakhs of km of CNG experience. It’s a straightforward mod, proven, and we have lakhs of CNG cars successfully running on gas here in NCR. The people who struggle with gas are usually those who go for ultra cheap venturi type kits or those who are not regular with basic maintenance. Fact is that you recover your initial investment in a few months and running costs are 3 to 4 times less. Gas makes perfect sense today. And if you don’t maintain your car well, even your factory fit WagonR CNG will be a royal pain. While that well kept pre owned CNG Accord or CRV or Altis will happily keep chugging along.

With benefit of hindsight, I wouldn’t have gone for the Compass. I would have bought the ZS. Your daily driver doesn’t have to be your flagship. What it needs to be is fairly comfortable, reliable and economical to run. You can always splurge for the occasional indulgence but your daily use things should be sasta sundar tikaau.

Coming to pollution, Yes agree with Gadkari that Diesel cars cause more pollution but petrol cars are not sane either. What do we do to trucks buses and trains? They account for 80% of diesel consumption. Two wheeler are purely petrol powered. Just for private registration, petrol cars will be causing more pollution than diesel as they are selling significantly more.

Pollution is a complex bogey. The odd even rules have made it clear that private cars are a minuscule contributor to overall air quality. Independent studies had always said this. It’s just that it is politically inconvenient to touch two wheelers, construction and DG sets. So cars become a soft target. The government needs to be seen doing something about pollution, after all.

[harry10]

I believe it all comes to priorities and how much is your monthly running.
For now we can't manage a petrol. Our monthly running is minimum 2500km. We keep our car for around 7 years. Quick calculation -

Diesel rate - 90
Petrol rate - 100

Diesel mileage - 15kmpl
Petrol mileage - 10kmpl.

For 2500 km it shows saving of 10k every month by running a diesel car over petrol. That means a saving of approx 8 lac over a period of 7 years. That's quite substantial. If we pay 1-1.5 lac extra while buying a diesel along with a bit higher maintainance cost, still there is a lot of saving.

We recently sold our Diesel Honda City and waiting for delivery of Sonet diesel AT. Our other car, Tiago is also a diesel. I would love to own a EV and seriously considered the Nexon EV but then we won't be able to do the trips to Punjab and Himachal as easily. Maybe by the time of next car change we will have EV's with a range of near 350-400km in manageable prices.

Side note- I enjoy driving diesel more than petrol. Maybe it's the torque.

[ramnaresh_2000]

I learned driving in a Daewoo Matiz petrol car. It was humble 800 CC petrol engine, the only comfort it had was a AC. The moment you turn on the AC the pickup used to drop. Then I started using my father's 1st gen Hyundai Verna Diesel and the kick of power in 3rd gear was addictive. From then onwards I only purchased/drove Diesel cars. Verna/Scala/TUV300/Creta/Compass all diesel engines only. Not experienced the BS6 diesel yet, so cannot comment.

Please tell me which Petrol can consistently give me 20-24 KMPL mileage on highway? I will and always buy diesel engines only until they cease to exist. No 2nd though on this. Maybe EV once the infrastructure is ready.

My argument are as below

• Diesel is always cheaper than Petrol
• Diesel low end torque cannot be matched by petrol engine
• BS6 Diesel engines are not polluting vehicles
• Maintenance of diesel is cheaper than petrol in vehicles like Compass

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by GTO

Will buy turbo-diesels till as long as they are on sale (easily another 15 - 20 years). Reasons:



- End of the day, when I'm buying a car, I'll buy whichever is the better engine option for that particular model, whether petrol or diesel or electric.

Same for me for all the above reasons. No problems at all picking diesel. I’d pick what appeals to me for that specific car and my specific requirement from that car. In fact for my next purchase which is definitely within the next two years, the bulk of my shortlist is indeed diesel and automatic.

If I buy a Camry I would stretch for the hybrid (assuming the petrol was also sold), if a Compass/ Meridian, the diesel 4x4; Thar (unsure but most likely diesel), a 5 series, my order of preference would be 6 cylinder diesel —> petrol --> 4 cylinder diesel depending on budget issues; for a Nexon / EZ: the electric.
In some it may be murky like in a Creta / Seltos - performance vs peace of mind and FE.

[pradheepsr]

I will continue to buy turbo diesels as long as they are on sale.
My reasons:
-High maintainence costs of diesel is a myth,they are as equal as turbo petrols on that aspect.
-Fuel rate difference between petrol and diesel is atleast 7-10 rupees/litre in almost all states.Hence the more you drive,diesels wont burn your pocket.
-FE of some current gen turbo diesels are way better than that of their petrol counterparts.
eg:I had a BMW X1 sdrive 20d(F48).It used to give me a consistent FE of 17-20 kmpl on highways,and a combined FE of 14-16 kmpl with comfort mode and sport modes used occasionally.Whereas my Tiago petrol would give around 10-12 kmpl in city.
-The torque on tap in many turbo diesels are available from as low as 1500-2000 RPM and also the high end torque(useful for sudden overtaking manoeuvres in highway) is something you just cant expect in many turbo petrols.
-Iam a person who would like to hear an engine grunt now and then along with a musical turbo whine,which again is unheard of in many of the modern turbo petrols.

Hence in a nutshell,will continue to buy turbo diesels as long as the engine is torquey and is mated with a perfect gearbox combo which has enough grunt to make me go bonkers for a perfect weekend getaway.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

CNG is not a bad or scary word for someone like me who has lakhs of km of CNG experience. It’s a straightforward mod, proven, and we have lakhs of CNG cars successfully running on gas here in NCR. The people who struggle with gas are usually those who go for ultra cheap venturi type kits or those who are not regular with basic maintenance. Fact is that you recover your initial investment in a few months and running costs are 3 to 4 times less. Gas makes perfect sense today. And if you don’t maintain your car well, even your factory fit WagonR CNG will be a royal pain. While that well kept pre owned CNG Accord or CRV or Altis will happily keep chugging along.

With benefit of hindsight, I wouldn’t have gone for the Compass. I would have bought the ZS. Your daily driver doesn’t have to be your flagship. What it needs to be is fairly comfortable, reliable and economical to run. You can always splurge for the occasional indulgence but your daily use things should be sasta sundar tikaau.

Will manufacturer honour warranty for after market CNG? If yes, then may be good option. But if this will void warranty majority, will stay away no matter how good they are. EV is good alternative, provided one already has another ride for long drive. At 20L, current EVs can be secondary/city car for only few as this is the budget for majority of primary car buyers. For NCR folks , diesel should be last option, but then alternatives as you climb up the price ladder aren't cheap either.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

I like diesel for these reasons - mile munchers, free-revving character, high torque, better mileage, can be driven for hours and days continuously. I am sure most of us do for the same mentioned reasons.

Honestly apart from the mileage factor there simply isn't anything much going for diesels. When you talk about "free-revving character" that is definitely not something I associate with diesel engines since their components are so much heavier and the red-line so much lower. Performance wise a petrol is any day going to be the better choice. Also whatever mileage one benefits from by using a diesel, is offset by the poor handling characteristics as well as maintenance costs of a diesel motor is what I feel. For all those holding on to diesel engines simply because of the kick back in the seat or some reason like that, I would suggest a track test of a Diesel and Petrol car. Numbers do not lie.

[anb]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

. When you talk about "free-revving character" that is definitely not something I associate with diesel engines since their components are so much heavier and the red-line so much lower. Performance wise a petrol is any day going to be the better choice. Also whatever mileage one benefits from by using a diesel, is offset by the poor handling characteristics as well as maintenance costs of a diesel motor is what I feel. For all those holding on to diesel engines simply because of the kick back in the seat or some reason like that, I would suggest a track test of a Diesel and Petrol car. Numbers do not lie.

On track petrol cars will be faster, but for regular day to day driving, diesels are much faster as most of the driving will be done around 2000 rpm. Maintenance costs of turbo petrols and turbo diesels are similar. Cars with Diesel engines generally has stiffer suspension and some of them rides and handles better than petrol counterparts. I have a Polo GT TSI & a GT TDI. My TDI has better ride, handling and steering feel than my Polo TSI. Figo, Verna, Jeep Compass, MG Hector,Hyundai Tucson etc offer better performance in diesel form than petrol.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by anb

On track petrol cars will be faster

Yes but what makes them faster? Certainly few of those traits extend onto the roads as well.

Originally Posted by anb

for regular day to day driving, diesels are much faster as most of the driving will be done around 2000 rpm.

I do not understand this hard and fast rule of having to drive at 2000 rpm. Maybe in a rattly 3cyl petrol or a crude diesel motor it is done to reduce cabin noise, but otherwise there is absolutely no need. I find myself doing large chunks of a journey in a single gear. One simply needs to drive according to the gear ratios and the engine's power delivery characteristics. When in interior lanes where speed will not cross 40kph (a mental experience based limit), I am perfectly happy sticking to 2nd gear throughout. Be it at 2000rpm or at 5000rpm. Fuel consumption doesn't change by going into a higher gear it simply depends on throttle input.

Originally Posted by anb

Maintenance costs of turbo petrols and turbo diesels are similar.

Agreed when it comes to engine maintenance but not when it comes to wear on the suspension and mounts. I feel one must only buy a turbo petrol if performance is the biggest criteria modern 3cyl turbo petrols are a joke IMO strictly serving to add hype or achieve good looking ARAI mileage claims. However for most applications a large enough NA option exists. If one were to choose a non-turbo diesel, they would feel thrown back 3 decades (reason why no one offers it).

Originally Posted by anb

Cars with Diesel engines generally has stiffer suspension and some of them rides and handles better than petrol counterparts. I have a Polo GT TSI & a GT TDI. My TDI has better ride, handling and steering feel than my Polo TSI. Figo, Verna, Jeep Compass, MG Hector,Hyundai Tucson etc offer better performance in diesel form than petrol.

First of all stiffer suspension does not always equate to better ride especially not handling. A car with stiffer suspension can easily break traction much before a car that is more softly sprung. It is all done taking weight characteristics and performance criteria in mind to achieve a certain balance. Perhaps you feel that a GT TDI handles better than a TSI however what would you say if I told you that I feel a 1.6 Polo handles the best of the bunch. In most cases a petrol is a lighter engine and manufacturers tend to have more room to play with suspension characteristics when this is the case because of quicker turn-in ability as well as more controllable and balanced weight shift characteristics. Certain manufacturers may have better diesel motors on offer in their models which is simply due to market trends and manufacturer specialties. All of that aside, if one were simply to compare the diesel motor with the petrol motor, efficiency is the only benefit one can come up with.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by lamborghini

Needs to have another option: I will choose the more competent power train for my requirements.

Well, the freedom to choose a "competent power train based on the requirements" (especially between diesel and petrol) is the one now at full stake. And more worrying is even the question of whether in the future, will we even have diesel in production.

Originally Posted by ashis89

Note, this isn't a statement from the govt. But a personal opinion/request from a man who happens to be a minister. His words have no weight until Govt decides to make it a law. Until that day comes, I will prefer my vehicle of choice - a torquey diesel!

He (The minister) is the mouthpiece of the govt. In other words, whatever he says today can easily become a law tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

The fifth option in the poll needs some correction. The word petrolhead is a misnomer. AFAIK it means car enthusiast. It does not imply that one is a petrol engine lover.
[/i].

Petrolhead is as good a car enthusiast as a diesel head. So I am sure you will agree that a car enthusiast need not be purely a petrolhead.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Honestly apart from the mileage factor there simply isn't anything much going for diesels. When you talk about "free-revving character" that is definitely not something I associate with diesel engines since their components are so much heavier and the red-line so much lower. Performance wise a petrol is any day going to be the better choice. Also whatever mileage one benefits from by using a diesel, is offset by the poor handling characteristics as well as maintenance costs of a diesel motor is what I feel. For all those holding on to diesel engines simply because of the kick back in the seat or some reason like that, I would suggest a track test of a Diesel and Petrol car. Numbers do not lie.

Diesel's redline is much faster compared to petrol's for obvious reasons. But yes even petrol's can be free revving - like a big CC NA petrol engine (Ferrai's V12's and prev-gen NA V8 AMG's are well known for this).

Well, I beg to differ here on performance and handling, eg - a diesel manual compass is significantly more fun to drive than its petrol version. Similarly, for big/heavy cars, a petrol powertrain option should also be heavy (V6/V8), etc. which I am sure you know that how thirsty are they.

Obviously, the track behaviour of a petrol car will be much better compared to its diesel version. Again, for obvious reasons of the heavy nose, understeer, turbo lag, etc, etc.


Well, all in all, what I see is that there are two most important factors that go against the petrol/EV
Against petrol - Mileage. Aggressive right foot behaviour significantly drops the fuel efficiency. Especially in turbo petrol's (Even though the on-paper numbers of the XUV700's petrol powertrain are very impressive, only the real-world mileage and character can decide on the sales numbers).
Against EV's - Range anxiety and buying cost. I am sure these will be addressed in the upcoming models in the upcoming years.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Note, this isn't a statement from the govt. But a personal opinion/request from a man who happens to be a minister. His words have no weight until Govt decides to make it a law. Until that day comes, I will prefer my vehicle of choice - a torquey diesel!

Read between the lines sir! The government has a transparent agenda to ban diesel private vehicles. Once they do that, it becomes easy to subsidise diesel again to keep the transport and farm lobby happy before the election. All this drama is for 2024.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

Read between the lines sir! The government has a transparent agenda to ban diesel private vehicles. Once they do that, it becomes easy to subsidise diesel again to keep the transport and farm lobby happy before the election. All this drama is for 2024.

Gadkari is known to make several 'visionary' statements from time to time. Most of them are impractical and don't get implemented. Remember his recent statement asking manufacturers to install 6 airbags in all their cars?

And they don't need to ban private diesel cars to introduce subsidy (unlikely, IMO) for some sectors. They have DBT in place already.

Do remember, if they go as per your idea, they would have to scrap all existing diesel cars. Another impossible idea, IMO.

[Hayek]

Have never been a fan of diesels - especially in urban areas, the high particulate and NOX / SOX emissions from Diesel Vehicles make them unacceptably polluting, and major causes for the terrible air quality in all Indian cities.

Nevertheless, I bought my first (and likely only) diesel car when I picked up my X3 20d in late 2016. Why did I do that? When I was hunting for cars back then, the X3 was available only with a 20d engine. I did test the Mercedes GLC 220d and GLC 300 as well - and would have picked the petrol had I opted for the Mercedes. But we got massive discounts from BMW - I picked up the X3 for ₹43.5 l ex show room while the Mercedes would have cost me ₹ 10 l more - and I guess ₹10 l was enough to brush aside my moral qualms at buying a diesel. (Incidentally, BMW launched the X3 28i on the day I finally placed my order - but there were no discounts on it - so it would have been ₹10 l more as well).

I must say the X3 is reasonably refined for a diesel - once the engine heats up, the clatter outside is also acceptable and you can’t hear the engine inside with the AC on. But having picked up a Petrol Tiguan Allspace, I must say nothing can beat the refinement of a petrol engine - and even on highways, I find the Tiguan great to drive.

As for fuel efficiency, there is a difference of course - on similar runs, the Tiguan gives me 7-8 kmpl where the X3 would give 8.5-9.5 kmpl. But for 10,000 km per year, the difference in cost is a very acceptable ₹40,000 per year - which is negligible when you are looking at cars where the even the EMI over a 5 year life is well over ₹ 60,000 per month. So I am pretty clear that unless I end up with an equation similar to that I faced in 2016, with a massive discount on a similar diesel vs a petrol, I have bought my last diesel car.

Am sure for those who run 25-30000 km per year, the equation would be different. But that would predominantly be highway driving - for which I guess a diesel is not as sinful as in the hands of urban road warriors like me.

[Jude300]

I voted for option 2.

I had already posted my thoughts on the policies of the government here (SIAM double standards exposed | In 2017, pro-scrapping and now in 2021, pro-pollution?)

May be this will be my last diesel vehicle but for now I am going to buy a diesel. Unless there is a real change in EV infrastructure, technology and affordability I don't see a point in changing now.