[Alterlife]

Love how the car looks though. Also nice to see that the Indian spec has a space saver vs tyre repair kit.

The one thing that disappoints me about the looks is that the digital display beside the analog speedometer looks... asymmetric. I would even say it's tacky.



I don't recall the malaysian spec display looking so 'off'.

Still, :fingerscrossed: for pricing.

[pram_ind]

Originally Posted by aim120

Instead Honda used a engine with a cvt and a motor to power the wheels, then a second motor for regen and a battery.( no idea how many clutch's is there inside to disengage the regen motor, engine and the main motor but logic states that it should have 3 clutch)

It does not have traditional CVT but a e-CVT. Most of the city driving, the ICE will be used to power the electric motor for propulsion. Only during highway runs, i.e. above 120 KM/h the clutch will directly engage wheel with ICE to propel the car.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Kickdown

25L would be bonkers. Honda would be absolute nuts if they do that. I hope that's not the case.

Granted that it offers better fuel efficiency and the Honda Sensing tech and all that, but on the flip side it eats into the boot space (which generally is the USP for sedans) and also the full size spare alloy wheel makes way for a space saver. I would stick to the regular one if the difference is more than 2l.

Paying 25 lacs for this somehow doesnt make sense. The car seems to be neither here nor there (performance vs fuel efficiency vs practicality). Can one not pay about 7-8 lac more and enjoy a full throated 190bhp petrol burner through the Skoda Octavia ? You also get 600 ltr boot space as an added feature. If you do not want to spend more, the Slavia/Virtus would do just fine !

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Paying 25 lacs for this somehow doesnt make sense. The car seems to be neither here nor there (performance vs fuel efficiency vs practicality). Can one not pay about 7-8 lac more and enjoy a full throated 190bhp petrol burner through the Skoda Octavia ? You also get 600 ltr boot space as an added feature. If you do not want to spend more, the Slavia/Virtus would do just fine !

The objective of this car is efficiency and maximum km/l. Also another very important advantage is silent drive when only the electric motor is on and for city speeds it would be driving the wheels for most part (if the battery is charged enough). I have experienced similar cars during my earlier visits to Sri Lanka (where the Toyota Prius and other Hybrid cars are quite common) and the drive is very smooth. In typical city driving this car can return 15-16kmpl and on highways it goes to 18-21 kmpl depending on the speed you drive. So compared to a petrol City it would be 50-60% fuel efficient.
This car is for a use case of a person who drives 100+ km per day (like me) where the cost of running a petrol car would turn out to over a 1000 Rs every day. With this car that expense would reduce to maybe 600 a day. (Which is similar to the cost of running a diesel car currently - I own a Jeep Compass and my daily commute to office and back is 100+ kms.) With options of diesel cars reducing day by day, these cars can easily fill that Void.
A pure electric car does not make sense for me as the range anxiety would be too much and I would practically have to charge the car every 2nd day ( even with a MG Zs ev) and plus the challenges of charging infrastructure on long drives / even at home is still an issue. EVs are fine if you cover 20-30 kms a day and then can charge the car once a week on the weekend.
In case of Hybrids like this, you don't have range anxiety and can get around 1000km with a 50L tank and don't need to be bothered for long drives. I for one am a believer that for the next 5 years in India, the era will be of Hybrid petrol cars as petrol costs are skyrocketing and they would make sense now for manufacturers as well as buyers.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

I for one am a believer that for the next 5 years in India, the era will be of Hybrid petrol cars as petrol costs are skyrocketing and they would make sense now for manufacturers as well as buyers.

Don't get me wrong, I also love hybrids and have advocated the same on this forum too. But asking upwards of 20 lac for a sedan that is otherwise less practical (considerably lower boot space) and only marginally more fuel efficient is the issue for me. If this were a 15 lac OTR car thats ok - Or if it had a mileage of at least 25-30 kmpl, it was still worth it in say, the 18-21 lac category.

[M00M]

Considering that the Camry Hybrid is 52 in Mumbai. I think the City at 20-22 is acceptable. Anything more and it negates the benefit. The Camry Hybrid is also having Nickel battery while this has the Lithium Ion so more latest technology. Also this technology if I am not wrong in interpreting what every car reviewer is writing reminds me of the technology that BMW i3 had that the engine was only there to extend the range and produce the electricity for the electric motor and the engine would only kick in at a high speed just to propel and help the car's electric motor for higher speed.

I think the City eHev at 22 is far better value than the Camry Hybrid at 52. I look forward to driving it soon. My only wish was that they improved the music system resolution and the side camera resolution and I hope they have done that.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by M00M

Considering that the Camry Hybrid is 52 in Mumbai. I think the City at 22 is acceptable.

Absolutely not acceptable. The diesel City, whose top end retails at 17-18L ex showroom, also provides the same kind of fuel economy as this hybrid. That means you’ll be paying the 4-5L extra for basically just the convenience of not having to shift gears manually. And you loose half of the boot space in process. I don’t get the point.

Let’s not forget the diesel is a proven workhorse of an engine. How reliable this complicated hybrid system will be in the long run remains to be seen. There is also the cost of the hybrid’s battery, which will need replacement some day.

Same argument for Camry. Compare it with the old Superb, the 2.0 TDI. Camry’s urban economy with the hybrid system is similar to what the diesel Superb offered. The Skoda was certainly the more efficient one in highway conditions. Camry does not have any direct diesel competition today. City is in a price range where diesels still dominate, and there is one on offer in the very same car itself. Then there is the small matter of the pure electric cars, the ZS EV and the upcoming long range Nexon EV. They will also be directly competing with their greener credentials.

[M00M]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Absolutely not acceptable. The diesel City, whose top end retails at 17-18L ex showroom

You cannot compare a diesel and a petrol hybrid, especially a hi-tech range extender type of set up. The costs are far higher. Also diesel is a "dirty fuel" and petrol is relatively "cleaner".

You are entitled to your opinion and your choices, Honda India clearly thinks the same thats why you have the option of Petrol, Diesel and eHEV now. So whoever wants and is comfortable with whatever can choose accordingly. In my opinion I am ok with 20-22 for the City eHEV but not more than that.

[Alterlife]

We've prebooked the e-hev and I got this autogenerated quote / pricing from a no-reply address.



If this is true, Honda will be returning a portion of my booking amount while delivering the car .

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Alterlife

We've prebooked the e-hev and I got this autogenerated quote / pricing from a no-reply address.

Attachment 2302414

If this is true, Honda will be returning a portion of my booking amount while delivering the car .

On a serious note, someone can take them to court over this. Either they give a pre-booking written receipts or not take prebooking at all. Does this auto-generated quote mention any caveats about the ex-showroom price etc ?

[Alterlife]

I actually got a separate email about the pre-booking - 5k, online. The showroom them contacted me and initiated an additional payment of 16k after which I got this email.



There's also a pdf quote attached. No caveats that I can see.

Not planning on taking them to court over this one though , it's a harmless mistake!

[sunikkat]

Originally Posted by M00M

I think the City eHev at 22 is far better value than the Camry Hybrid at 52. I look forward to driving it soon. My only wish was that they improved the music system resolution and the side camera resolution and I hope they have done that.

There is a big difference here, Camry is not selling in that segment just because it is a hybrid. A major reason is also because what it is offering as a car whole, be it the space, luxury etc. Its a reliable alternative for Germans for those in that budget. And if you need a Camry only option is Hybrid and hence Toyota is able to price it high.

Whereas in case of City, the potential buyers will only be a section who needs that hybrid version. And for all others who just want the strengths of City, they have the normal one which is more practical with a bigger boot and might be better performance too. And this is where the challenge lies, if Honda prices Hybrid significantly more than regular City, the only benefit of it which is efficiency will not make sense.

[CArspeed]

Originally Posted by sunikkat

Whereas in case of City, the potential buyers will only be a section who needs that hybrid version. And for all others who just want the strengths of City, they have the normal one which is more practical with a bigger boot and might be better performance too. And this is where the challenge lies, if Honda prices Hybrid significantly more than regular City, the only benefit of it which is efficiency will not make sense.

The fuel efficiency is not the only USP of this car. My opinion is on the basis of various test drive reviews on this car. According to me the USP of this car compared to Vtek CVT is better ride and handling quality due to the presence of the heavy battery pack on the rear side making the car more balanced in weight distribution. The 5th Generation, I have observed is having more sideways movements particularly for rear passengers although the lateral movement is controlled compared to earlier versions. The second USP of Hybrid is a better mid-range performance compared to non-Hybrid. I could not understand why members here are making a point on poor initial acceleration when on paper it has a better 0-100 figures, which makes it the third USP. I am a corner craver plus my drive is about 90% on highways and presently owning a 11 year old ALTIS 7 step CVT with a tuned suspension and I am more interested in better handling and mid range performance without compromising on rear passenger comfort. The fourth USP is the tank range which is almost 900-1000 kms which is useful when you are on a long road trip.
The fifth USP is the ADAS.
The sixth USP will be that an advanced technology from a reliable manufacturer will command a better resale value.
The only downer is the luggage space and I always believe in carrying a very little luggage even for 4-5 days trip.
For several USP as described, I am prepared to pay 2-3 lakhs as premium.
I am in the market for a car that has the best ride and handling balance coupled with a good mid-range performance and reliability, costing 30-35 lakhs, my choice is restricted to upcoming Tucson and City Hybrid. I have rejected the Octavia and Compass as it does not meet one or more of my criteria.

[sunikkat]

Originally Posted by CArspeed

The fuel efficiency is not the only USP of this car. My opinion is on the basis of various test drive reviews on this car. According to me the USP of this car compared to Vtek CVT is better ride and handling quality due to the presence of the heavy battery pack on the rear side making the car more balanced in weight distribution. The 5th Generation, I have observed is having more sideways movements particularly for rear passengers although the lateral movement is controlled compared to earlier versions. The second USP of Hybrid is a better mid-range performance compared to non-Hybrid. I could not understand why members here are making a point on poor initial acceleration when on paper it has a better 0-100 figures, which makes it the third USP. I am a corner craver plus my drive is about 90% on highways and presently owning a 11 year old ALTIS 7 step CVT with a tuned suspension and I am more interested in better handling and mid range performance without compromising on rear passenger comfort. The fourth USP is the tank range which is almost 900-1000 kms which is useful when you are on a long road trip.
The fifth USP is the ADAS.
The sixth USP will be that an advanced technology from a reliable manufacturer will command a better resale value.
The only downer is the luggage space and I always believe in carrying a very little luggage even for 4-5 days trip.
For several USP as described, I am prepared to pay 2-3 lakhs as premium.
I am in the market for a car that has the best ride and handling balance coupled with a good mid-range performance and reliability, costing 30-35 lakhs, my choice is restricted to upcoming Tucson and City Hybrid. I have rejected the Octavia and Compass as it does not meet one or more of my criteria.

The first 3 points that you mentioned I would not call it as an USP for City hybrid. Might be better than normal city, but in the segment I am pretty sure Slavia / Virtus 1.5 will be better at it. Having a top speed of 176 means the top performance again will fade of early, even within the legal speed limits.
Agree on last three though.
Anyway too early to comment until we test drive or the India drive reports are out.

[M00M]

=Alterlife;5307572The showroom them contacted me and initiated an additional payment of 16k after which I got this email.

Strange. From what Landmark Honda told me is that online is 5000/- booking and walk in to showroom is 21000/- booking both fully refundable without question and payment within few days of cancellation. I dont know why they asked you to cough up the extra 16000/-.

Originally Posted by sunikkat

Its a reliable alternative for Germans for those in that budget. And if you need a Camry only option is Hybrid and hence Toyota is able to price it high.
And this is where the challenge lies, if Honda prices Hybrid significantly more than regular City, the only benefit of it which is efficiency will not make sense.

I agree with your view that City eHEV should not be overpriced thats why I am comfortable with 20-22 on road not more. Whereas Camry Hybrid is selling because there are executives who want a reliable alternative for day to day usage and are driver driven so they choose the Hybrid because there are lack of alternatives and with the Skoda Superb production halted there is no other option currently. But also I would like to point out that the way the alternative to Camry is a German, in the case of the City it is also the same. So while a German is good to drive etc, reliability is still not on the same level as the Japanese and many prefer the reliability over everything else. Thats why City has the most stable sales. I personally wouldnt buy a Slavia / Vento / Virtus / Rapid / Verna / Ciaz because in my experience the City is the best all rounder and most convenient. It may not do well in all respects but it is has the best balance amongst all.

Originally Posted by CArspeed

For several USP as described, I am prepared to pay 2-3 lakhs as premium.
I am in the market for a car that has the best ride and handling balance coupled with a good mid-range performance and reliability, costing 30-35 lakhs, my choice is restricted to upcoming Tucson and City Hybrid. I have rejected the Octavia and Compass as it does not meet one or more of my criteria.

I recently test drove the Octavia - very powerful but some abrupt acceleration at times, rear legroom was not adequate. Fuel efficiency is not a strong point of the Tsi motor. The Compass facelift I test drove at 4500 kms of the car it had loads of rattles. Tucson I had test driven when it was launched and the driving dynamics and the overall plasticky nature did not interest me. City eHEV I am keenly watching and I may purchase it considering I owned the arrow shot design City and the dolphin City both which were loved by my family and myself.

Originally Posted by sunikkat

The first 3 points that you mentioned I would not call it as an USP for City hybrid. Might be better than normal city, but in the segment I am pretty sure Slavia / Virtus 1.5 will be better at it. Having a top speed of 176 means the top performance again will fade of early, even within the legal speed limits.

Honda has this stupid habit in the name of fuel efficiency to undersize the tyre in India. In my arrow shot City I upsized and the ride, handling improved dramatically, yes there was a 1 km/litre drop in fuel mileage but I was ok with that. I think the City is not a performance oriented car anymore but an overall balanced product. Anybody wanting just performance should go for Tsi motor but then the fuel efficiency would not be more than 4-5 km/litre if you are gunning it constantly. I test drove the Kushaq / Slavia 1.5 and found that while gunning them is easy getting a good fuel mileage is hard because you just want to press the accelerator