[84.monsoon]

Very exciting launch indeed. Perfect timing as well, with petrol prices going through the roof. This is the perfeft solution for people with long urban commutes who also do some long distance holiday trips.Why I find this more exciting then EVs:

• No range anxiety-piece of mind
• No worries about space and facilities for charger installation/set up - most apartment complexes still do not provide enough electric charging facilities in the parking lots; many people in cities still park l their cars on the street.
• Nearly 75% more real world fuel economy on urban commutes, stretch that litre of expensive petrol even more
• A very complete feature set - be its safety, comfort and convenience or infotainment.
• Many features from what is normally found in the luxury car territory - rear sun blinds, ADAS features, etc.
• Can do an occasional highway trip with family if you are into packing light
• Very good rear seat comfort for the chauffeur driven too!

Other than the exhilaration of driving a high power/high torque car, this is a great package for a huge cross section of urban commuters in senior management.

Originally Posted by M00M

Assuming that the eHEV variant costs 22 lacs on road. Would that be value for money or appropriate or loose its value ? I personally think it should be not more than 19-20 on road considering that the City ZX CVT is 17.5 on road.

This car has a lot of kit. Multiple electric motors, battery pack, ADAS features etc. over the petrol car. I do not have expect this to come anywhere less than 19.99 lakhs ex-showroom.

[axe_deo]

Honda will surely price it above the slavia 1.5 tsi. This is a unique tech in this segment and with a combined torque of around 250 NM it will beat slavia 1.5 in the city driving at least. And its going to be much more fuel efficient.
And even if its priced more than slavia 1.5, it will sell more with the brand pull that honda city has in India.I think honda will make lots of profit out of this.

[Ranjith812]

Good strategy from Honda to launch hybrid in City.
I think Pricing would be the key factor, Honda should be able to price it competitively.Expected some cosmetic changes from the regular version, at least they could have given that blue colour with blackened grill. I personally hate that chrome front grill.

[qaqa]

Originally Posted by axe_deo

... with a combined torque of around 250 NM it will beat slavia 1.5 in the city driving at least..

Strangely all the reviews (including Autocar) are saying that the performance is just average. Autocar in fact says that the launch is ho-hum and that performance kicks in only later.

This is strange behaviour for what is essentially an EV with a genset. I would've expected EV like instant torque and pickup.

Not sure where that 250nm of torque is going.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by qaqa

Strangely all the reviews (including Autocar) are saying that the performance is just average. Autocar in fact says that the launch is ho-hum and that performance kicks in only later.
This is strange behaviour for what is essentially an EV with a genset. I would've expected EV like instant torque and pickup. Not sure where that 250nm of torque is going.

This is to delay starting the gasoline engine for as long as possible. By going easy on the launch, it may be possible to stretch the pure electric mode by a couple of kilometres more.

Even after the gasoline engine kicks in, the programming keeps it spinning as far as possible at the most efficient RPM range of around 2000 RPM. So if the overall output demanded by the driver is less, the gasoline engine power is used to charge the battery, and if the output demanded is more, instead of kicking the engine up to a high rpm (say 4000 rpm, which is only half as efficient, burning twice the fuel), the engine is still kept in the optimum RPM band for efficiency and the electric motor provides the necessary additional motive force.

This is the reason why one will not get the slug of torque at start and also not get the high rpm performance of the ivtec. The mid-range (if one can call it that) is where the car delivers the peak torque. The whole programming is done to maximize efficiency and provide as long a range as possible from a tank of gas.

I could not find the fuel tank capacity figures in the brochure, but assuming it has the same 40 litre tank capacity as the regular City, the car could deliver 1000+ km of range on a full tank of gas! It seems to me like the true "fill it, shut it, forget it" experience of today - for someone with an average commute of say 20 km a day for 5 days a week, they would have to visit the fuel station once in 2.5 months or just 5 times a year!! I would take that anyday, versus spending time charging my EV every few days and being immobilized and stuck at home on that big day at work, because I forgot to charge my EV the previous night after a late night party

[qaqa]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

This is to delay starting the gasoline engine for as long as possible. By going easy on the launch, it may be possible to stretch the pure electric mode by a couple of kilometres...

I think your explanation makes sense. Since it's all down to programming, Honda should have simply offered a performance mode which lets loose that 250nm of torque from get go.

In the current configuration, the only benefit of the hybrid power train is improved FE. Not sure if that is big enough a reason to justify the price premium over the regular City.

[Raskolnikov]

Hi Folks,

I'm a bit confused regarding this. Considering that the OTR price for this is going to be at least 4L above Honda City ZX CVT. Does it make sense for someone who will clock a maximum of 12k/yr? I calculated that it will take at least 8-10 years to recover the upfront cost (accounting for fuel price inflation). Is there any variable that I'm not taking into account?

PS- I don't care much about the new features (ADAS etc.)

[sumeethaldankar]

I hope it comes with the extended warranty and also 1yr 15k service intervals. Given that the car will have complex electronics I hope they last long and are not hefty to replace in case needed, else the entire amount of money which is saved in fuel will go to waste.

[TheARUN]

Originally Posted by VaibhavShatna95

I think this car will flop massively. The future is EV and it is here. If anyone has driven any of the current on sale EVs it would be easy to see that.

I can see where you are coming from. You are right when you say the future is EV, but I beg to dis-agree slightly, the future according to me in not 'now'

We need Hybrids right now, EV technology is not as convenient as gasoline. In future it will definitely get there but till then I think Hybrids are the way to go. More manufacturers should work on getting hybrids in before fully switching to EV. Hybrids should bridge the gap between ICE and EV. For two wheelers I think we are ready to go EV but four wheelers, I would wait till I sign the cheque. I'm ready to buy a hybrid but not an ICE or an EV, its too late to buy an ICE car and too early to buy an EV

I have a problem with ICE cars getting converted to EV, cars like Nexon, Tigor, E-Verito etc. Its always a compromise. EVs should be designed as EVs and not be conversions. This is where hybrids come in. Cars with and ICE platform should go hybrid and EVs should be designed from the ground up. That is the best value for our money

The Honda City is a very tasty proposition. I don't know how many of us will remember the Civic hybrid, the one with those classy alloys. Honda is having a second innings with the City. Its not going to be a game-changer since they will price it in the stratosphere where it won't make sense to buy one. What I am hoping is it will nudge other manufacturers to think hybrid and get us sub 10 lakh hybrids

A suggestion for Honda, please launch a stripped down 'Tour' version of the City, the one without all the bells and whistles but with the technology. That will give it a better chance to succeed

[Geta]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

All comes down to the battery capacity and cost, I guess. City Hybrid has a battery capacity of less than 1 kWh, while Nexon EV has a battery of 30 kWh.

True. But I would any day love a plug-in hybrid Honda City with a 10 kWh battery pack with a 50-80 km real world range with a 1.2 liter engine (to keep the cost in check) for a Rs 2 lac premium over the existing Honda City, than having this type of neither-here-nor-there hybrid, which is essentially a generator on wheels, as someone has put it.

Thanks

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Geta

True. But I would any day love a plug-in hybrid Honda City with a 10 kWh battery pack with a 50-80 km real world range with a 1.2 liter engine (to keep the cost in check) for a Rs 2 lac premium over the existing Honda City,

I don't think using a 1.2L engine in place of the 1.5L would make a significant cost saving for the manufacturer compared to providing a bigger battery. Most of the European hybrid cars I have seen offer around 25-30km of EV range only and not more than that. For 80km range, we would be needing a much larger battery which could eat up the whole boot space.

[ashishpotdar]

Originally Posted by M00M

Assuming that the eHEV variant costs 22 lacs on road. Would that be value for money or appropriate or loose its value ? I personally think it should be not more than 19-20 on road considering that the City ZX CVT is 17.5 on road

The 5th generation ANHC is already 18L Mumbai OTR with a 15 Lac ex-Showroom. If we assume that the EHEV will be 18L ex-Showroom, the OTR will be around 21.5 Lacs or more. I think Honda is making the same mistake they did with Civic Hybrid.

Then doesn't make financial sense. Neither on Fuel efficiency cost savings nor against the Slavia and Virtus GT models (appx. 21L).

I was seriously considering this but only if OTR was sub-20L. Else the ZX CVT makes much more sense.

Unless Honda launch HRV, Revised BRV and relaunch Civic, CRV, Accord as imagery builders they will never be able to rebuild the business or brand.

[aquavivarium]

I guess Honda realized that " Middle path " is the way to go .

City is already accomplished and proven , the most important USP in this is the "Only" electric mode , which will happen if drive is light footed , eyes will be repeatedly looking at the MID to check , I suggest it should have a HUD for this . A little less luggage space is OK.

Price escalation of 1 Lakh is justified from the top auto model.

But remember this car will go electric in economy mode , you wont get the pure , zero lag ,linear torque of pure EVs.

Also lets hope long term reliability is not an issue for such a complicated car.

Honda needs to be congratulated to get this in India, its a tempting product.

[kushagra452]

Originally Posted by Raskolnikov

I calculated that it will take at least 8-10 years to recover the upfront cost (accounting for fuel price inflation). Is there any variable that I'm not taking into account?

Good point. Even though I am interested in this car and want it to succeed, I too have similar thoughts regarding the time to break even. A 4L premium over the top model ZX CVT will make it a (very) hard sell. I am located in Delhi and I clock a max of 12k to 13k pre annum. Assuming that the petrol's 15 year life span is applicable for this car as well, I am finding it hard to justify paying anything more than 1L-1.5L on top of the ZX CVT trim. As far as the fuel prices (crude prices) are concerned, I am of the opinion that they are not going to remain elevated forever. Analysts expect a correction in the crude price once the Russia/Ukraine conflict draws to a close.

[kushagra452]

I did a quick "time to break even" back of the envelope calculation. Assumptions made are as follows:

1. Fuel price: Rs.100/L and Rs.130/L
2. Honda City ZX CVT ex-showroom price: Rs. 15L
3. ZX CVT Mileage: 18 Kms/L
4. eHEV mileage: 25 Kms/L
5. Not factoring in the cost of battery replacement in this calculation.

Hope this helps!