[SedanGuy]

Originally Posted by RK79

bought 3 new, same model tyres and used the spare as 4th one, and kept a used tyre as spare,saved 5k in the process. The reason,spare was kept as new because, i never had a puncture, and spare is a non alloy.

This is a bad idea. What a lot of people don’t take into consideration is that rubber in these tyres degrade even if they are not used. Always buy 4 tyres when replacing.

Coming back to the threads discussion, if you look at it from a pure statistical point of view, the car maker has made a wise choice, saves them money and the tyre in an urban setting is not being used as much as it should. With excellent tubeless wheels and tyres, the spare wheel is slowly becoming obsolete and a lot of OEMs are phasing them out as well. I don’t think manufacturers should be penalised for the smaller sized tyre. On a side note, it also serves as an excellent reminder to get your tyres fixed on time

[amol4184]

My Subaru Outback had a space saver. But the wheel well was for full sized spare. Why Subaru would do that since AWDs are notoriously finicky about mismatched wheel size and weight. Clearly a cost saving affair. Forums and even manual will warn you about putting snow chains and mismatched wheels.

In 4 years with that car I just had one flat but it was unnerving. At the first opportunity I got the tire replaced.

I would definitely like a full sized spare in my car.
OTOH how many flats will I have? It's a conundrum.

In my opinion, where space is not an issue a full sized spare should be given without any fuss. No doubt about it and most definitely in India.

[starke]

I don't understand how the court can legally take action against the OEM or the dealer (who just resells the stuff from OEM have no role in this ).

OEMs are not cheating the customer by giving a fake promise, but we buy as we know what comes with it.

The car is homologated with this spare which means it is road legal and approved by ARAI which complies with CMVR rules.

Moreover as per the new policy update, we may not even get a spare tire at all which is compensated by TPMS and a puncture repair kit.

Also, the OEMs test these spare tires also in their vehicle testing to make sure it is sufficient for the purpose it is meant to be (A spare tire is a spare always and we should change it asap once we sort out a solution to the primary)

What I think about this issue is - OEMs should give an option to have a full-size spare or a space saver one so the customers knows what they want.

[GTO]

Tyre punctures, sidewall damage & cracked alloy wheels are commonplace in India due to road conditions, as well as the stupid new obsession of manufacturers with big rims & low profile tyres. I ended up with this on a recent highway drive. Who in their right minds sells a sedan with 20" rims in India



Had to baby the car back home, driving slower than a Tata Nano.

Space savers come with too many compromises, restricted speed and compromised handling being the two major ones. Car brands that give a full-size spare get my respect .

It's interesting how different car manufacturers approach this. The fools at BMW were once selling cars without a spare tyre. If you paid through your nose for one, there was no spare wheel well to place it in (Pics: BMW's incredibly stupid spare tyre solution)! I wish someone had sued them for this.



Not giving a spare tyre or giving a really slim one is fine for developed countries where roadside assistance is <30 minutes away, no matter where you are. But in India, it's not the right solution. Imagine ending up with damaged tyre or cracked wheel in the middle of a Bombay-Goa drive. You won't be able to buy a new tyre for 300 km. And with that space saver, you will be driving @ 80 kmph in the slow lane. How frustrating. A Maruti Alto K10 running on its well-sized spare tyre will be overtaking you.

Originally Posted by lina

Do you really want a 215 or 235 wide tyre occupying your boot space? In many of the luxury cars, they dont even have a well to store the tyre.

Because that's a for "Europe, USA or China" solution. If regular spare tyres were made mandatory, you can bet they would design a wheel well big enough to hold a 215 - 235 width tyre. My humble Civic held a 225 mm Michelin Pilot Sport with just a little protrusion of the boot floor. Am sure far larger luxury cars can do better. It is us who are letting them get away with it.

This is just the easiest way for the OEMs to cut costs, save weight & boast about enhanced boot space.

Originally Posted by AnandB

I am driving my Kodiaq to Ladakh in a month and it comes with a space-saver which is already giving me head-ache.

All I can say is, good luck brother!

[Sumer]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

Since 2007 most BMW and Mini models come with run flat tires. They don't even have the skinny temporary spare/donut tire and a jack.

The run flat tires can go anywhere from 25 to 200 miles before giving up. Depending on temperature and speed. Bmw flashes a warning asking driver to limit to 50mph.

People carry tire repair kit with a tire sealant and a airpump. Most tire shops refuse to repair if sealant was used because it is a pain to clean.

I recently experienced a flat on a BMW - far away from civilization, and it is a horrible experience.

Fortunately in our few years of ownership of a 320d, we had no punctures. The car didn't come with a spare at all, but after requesting the dealership, they gave us a tubeless space saver (in contrast to the 4 full size run flats the car came with) in a cover, fastened to hooks in the boot, eating space. Still better than nothing I'd say. That car was our only experience with run flats till date. Can somebody shed some knowledge about status of run flat repairs on our major highways?
As far as the topic goes, I feel if the government has decided that the car is fit to be sold as is, there should be no legal argument about it.

[Axe77]

Sorry I don’t mean to spam and multi post the same issue but just cross posting my observation on the XUV thread. It’s as relevant here as on the XUV thread.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post5127106 (Mahindra XUV700, now launched at 11.99 lakhs)

The one peace of mind of electing offerings from non-German / similarly premium manufacturers was the provision of a full size spare wheel - i.e. likes of Creta, Safari, even Fortuner / Endeavour etc.

I am really disappointed that the new 7OO with its rough road and go anywhere credentials is being specced with a tiny space saver. If I owned the 7OO for instance, I would really like to take it to remote off the beaten path places. How does this give any comfort. Even if I make do with the space saver in a situation while touring, where do I store the full size regular wheel if I am traveling with 4 passengers and luggage thats already filled up the boot. This is a BIG fail from Mahindra. I dearly hope the wheel storage design is wide enough to accommodate the full size wheel as well. I’d literally buy it aftermarket if I have to rather than go around with the donut.

I think just as the Government is mandating things like 2 airbags, ABS etc, a full size spare should also be a mandatory requirement.

Originally Posted by Sumer

. Fortunately in our few years of ownership of a 320d, we had no punctures. That car was our only experience with run flats till date. Can somebody shed some knowledge about status of run flat repairs on our major highways?
.

I can share two experiences on my side on this with my 3 GT with a donut in the wheel well. I am on my second set of OEM runflats now in my 50,000 kms and ~6 years of usage.

1st instance:

I was on my way late evening (post 7, which is rare for me) on an urgent trip from Mumbai to Pune in the monsoon season. Around Vashi, my car went over a bad pothole that was not visible because it was filled up as a puddle. The tyre was blown, destroyed beyond repair with a big gaping hole in it. Since I was so far out from my destination, I had no choice but to call RSA, which as per my RSA package, flat bed my car to the nearest (fortunately in Mumbai) service station and also gave me a car drop to Pune.

I was lucky my other car was with my mum in Pune on this occasion and so it worked out for me. But in several other situations this could have left me badly stranded.

2nd instance:

I was about 15 kms short of Azra coming from Goa to Mumbai / Pune. I had a puncture. I just filled air and carried on till Azra. Now two things - anyone familiar with this route knows that this is a pretty long and desolate stretch and driving with a punctured tyre can be quite unnerving. Azra had only two repair guys, of which it was the weekly off for one of them. I was just plain lucky that I found a tyre repair guy who could fix my puncture but again, had I not found him I could have been in a bloody soup.

I have had some other punctures on long drives as well as in city but have usually found a puncture chap fairly soon in each case. But it definitely plays on my mind when I am taking slightly more adventurous travel. It is also one of the reason I’ve been toying with the idea of a cheaper sturdier but high quality / fun to drive alternative for trips which can be in heavy rain, to off beat end locations etc. The XUV (along with Tucson / Creta / Thar etc) was among the vehicles on my list for such usage but this donut issue is a big downer.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by GTO

Tyre punctures, sidewall damage & cracked alloy wheels are commonplace in India due to road conditions, as well as the stupid new obsession of manufacturers with big rims & low profile tyres.

Isn't it so ironical that manufacturers here dedicate umpteen hours to tune the suspension for Indian road conditions but goofs up on having the right tyre spec suitable for our roads. Even more frustrating is the one size less spare wheels and doughnuts(in luxury cars) they provide. When they can "Indianise"(read cutting corners)everything else, why not do some Indianisation on wheels and tyres, including spare ones.

Originally Posted by AnandB

I am driving my Kodiaq to Ladakh in a month and it comes with a space-saver which is already giving me head-ache. Worse part is i don't think i can even put a full-size tyre in its space.

You should certainly carry a full sized spare wheel and tyre and find a way to do it too. When I did a Bangalore-Manali drive last year, my constant worry was about a tyre/wheel damage during the journey. I was better placed than you though(having one size less spare wheel and tyre) than the doughnut you have. Imagine you damaging the wheel or tyre sidewall in the midst of nowhere and your trip itinerary goes up in the air along with the air that gushes out from your tyre. And buying a Kodiaq tyre(which isn't a fast moving spec) in a remote town would be as slim as not finding an erratic two wheeler rider on our roads.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by steadfast

*SNIP*

More than cost cutting, use of smaller size spare tyres is to ensure uniform replacement schedule of tyres - basically both front or rear tyres at a time.
Due to full size spare, this schedule is disturbed leading to suboptimal driving experience.*SNIP*

Huh? In the olden days when all cars came with a full-sized stepney (think Ambasadors, Fiats, Heralds and other Standards etc.), there was an accepted and recommended procedure for rotating 5 wheels. That procedure could be very slightly modified in today's world of electronics-based wheel rotation.

Hell there was even a recommended rotation scheme for scooters (think old Lambrettas/Vijays and Vespas/Chetaks/Supers and Fantabulous) that came with stepneys.

Originally Posted by lina

Do you really want a 215 or 235 wide tyre occupying your boot space? In many of the luxury cars, they dont even have a well to store the tyre.*SNIP*

Originally Posted by GTO

*SNIP*

My humble Civic held a 225 mm Michelin Pilot Sport with just a little protrusion of the boot floor. Am sure far larger luxury cars can do better. It is us who are letting them get away with it.*SNIP*

My 2015 Facelift Jetta Highline TDI comes with a donut placed in a wheel-well that is sized to hold a full-sized stepney. How do I know? I actually placed one of my alloys with the tyre mounted on it in that well and there was no difference at all. This shows that it was a pure cost-cutting measure and nothing else.

Cheers

[dragstar]

Excellent decision by the Consumer Court.

And I hope that OEM’s take notice and start offering the same specification tire as a spare. Alloy or Steel rim doesn’t make much difference but the same tire specification is important.

There are multiple scenarios where a same spec tire comes in handy and saves the day.

I am wondering if on my next car purchase can I use this ruling to push my dealer for same specifics tire?

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by AnandB

I am driving my Kodiaq to Ladakh in a month and it comes with a space-saver which is already giving me head-ache. Worse part is i don't think i can even put a full-size tyre in its space.

Consider at least buying a spare full-size tyre which you can stuff somewhere and hopefully pack your luggage around it. I'd be very nervous with only a space-saver.

If (God forbid) you have a unrepairable tyre, you can make it to the next town with moderately decent tyre shops (on the space saver) and change to the full-size spare.

[steadfast]

Originally Posted by Gansan

This is how it works, as given in my Alto use manual.

Smart methodology. So does Alto have 5000 km periodic maintenance schedule?

Originally Posted by tilt

Huh? In the olden days when all cars came with a full-sized stepney (think Ambasadors, Fiats, Heralds and other Standards etc.), there was an accepted and recommended procedure for rotating 5 wheels. That procedure could be very slightly modified in today's world of electronics-based wheel rotation.

Hell there was even a recommended rotation scheme for scooters (think old Lambrettas/Vijays and Vespas/Chetaks/Supers and Fantabulous) that came with stepneys.

Well in olden days, periodic maintenance was typically around 5000 kms but now on average it is 10,000 km and many manufacturers have 15000 km or 1 year. Even for Jetta, it would be 15k if I am not wrong.

At 5000 km tyre rotation, tyre thread deviances in a pair of tyres are less but if someone goes once a year at 15000 km for 5 tyre rotation, thread depth would be very inconsistent between a pair of front or reverse tyres unless someone has free time to make extra visits to workshops or tyre shops.

So with changing times, a space saver seems more practical and logical than full sized.

If manufacturers are not passing off the cost savings to customers then that is their decision but if I was the manufacturer I would have given space saver for best long term driving experience for my customers and pass on the cost savings.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by steadfast

Smart methodology. So does Alto have 5000 km periodic maintenance schedule?

For regular service It is 10k km/12 months whichever is earlier. Wheel rotation is every 5k km.

[GrandTourer]

Originally Posted by GTO

...
Imagine ending up with damaged tyre or cracked wheel in the middle of a Bombay-Goa drive. You won't be able to buy a new tyre for 300 km. And with that space saver, you will be driving @ 80 kmph in the slow lane.
...

Happened to me during my first Bangalore-Bombay drive and I was about 300kms in the journey. Hit a small rock in the middle of the road (probably some lorry dropped it) and got myself a puncture. A roadside shop tried it's best to repair, but the air kept escaping every 50 odd kms. I drove the rest of the journey on the donut.
One of the most harrowing experiences ever.

Glad to see the consumer court siding with the consumer, and hope to see manufacturers provide full size spare in the future. But we all know too well, it's not happening anytime soon unless we all take up carmakers to court.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by GTO

Not giving a spare tyre or giving a really slim one is fine for developed countries where roadside assistance is <30 minutes away, no matter where you are.

Perhaps true when one is close to well populated cities. There are way too many state highways, and scenic drives where there is patchy cell phone coverage, and road side assistance can take forever. People get stranded for several hours waiting for a flatbed truck. Also, tow trucks can take 2 passengers, and you cannot have people sitting inside the car. If you have 4 people in the car, you would have to leave 2 people in some remote place.

Bigger issue is availability of run flats in tire shops outside of big cities. When I was stuck near Seattle in (Shelton) a reasonably big tire chain Les Schwab Tires chuckled when I asked for run flat tires. I was asked to wait for 2 days. Now, think about the 2 people you left behind at that remote place where you had the flat, and got on the tow truck.

Not having a full size spare is a bad decision anywhere in the world. They have sacrificed too much for a perceived gain in weight, and costs.

[Hayek]

We can debate whether it makes sense or not to have a full size spare. You can have arguments on both sides - when I go back and think about my last 4 cars, I have had 4/5 punctures in about 160,000 km and 11+ years of usage - and had to change to the spare only once (which was triggered by a nearby puncture guy deliberately putting nails on a bridge). So I am fine with the space saver concept - agree there should be a wheel well to store the space saver though.

But I don’t see any role for a consumer court in imposing a penalty. The customer knew what he was buying and could have checked what kind of spare came with the car. This is a classic example of judicial overreach which makes India a painful place to do business.