[sunikkat]

The ICE VRS has always been a hit in the tuning / modification scene which in turn created further demand in the used market. And that’s one of the reasons for people to put that big money in RS245, as they could bump the power figures to cars twice or thrice it’s price.
Now with this 1.4 hybrid and the expected price increase due to CBU, I really doubt whether there will be any demand. Even after being a die hard fan of VRS, I wouldn’t put that money on a 1.4 hybrid.
Anyway it’s going to be a niche product, so it would have been good for Skoda to get that ICE VRS rather (hope that is still on sale in other markets).

[shahbaz63]

Originally Posted by chaith.turbo

Ofcourse you can recharge, but imagine a scenario where you are on a 300+ km trip. And only the first 50 km you get 250 Bhp power and the rest you have to drive in 147 Bhp. Unless you stop to recharge every 50-60 kms.
That is a big difference, the whole point of buying octavia is that it's a fun car to drive.

Not true, It recharges on the move which means for the most part of your 300+ km trip it will have 250 BHP power available for you.

[84.monsoon]

I think this is a very bad idea from Skoda. If I have a VRS, I would want to take it on long journeys and highway runs where I can exploit its power.

The disadvantage with the plug in hybrid like this one is the capability to recharge the batteries from the ICE engine continuously while on the move is missing. The battery is much bigger (10-20 times bigger) than that of a self-charging hybrid like the Hyryder. This means it requires the high power output from the wall charger to charge such a big battery. On the other hand, the Toyota Hyryder and the HyCross have small batteries that can be charged continuously while the vehicle is on the move from the ICE engine.

With the plug-in hybrid Octavia VRS has exhausted the range capability of the battery, it is then using a much smaller ICE engine to lug around a much heavier vehicle relative to the Octavia with the normal 2.0 TSI engine. The weight is much more, because of the large battery carried by the plug-in hybrid. This will then spin the small turbo charged 1.4 TSI engine much harder, taking it to a very inefficient rpm range of its operation. So when you do long-distance drives in the new Octavia RS, you are going to get very poor fuel efficiency, post the first 40 to 50 km run on the pure electric mode .

On the other hand, a HyCross or a Hyryder is going to have hybrid battery assist throughout the journey, since the ICE engine is able to charge the battery even every few seconds if necessary. Also the ICE engine will be operating in its normal rpm range of efficiency, or maybe slightly higher up in the range than optimal. Because these Toyotas have NA engines operating in Atkinson cycle, the FE penalty of operating slightly higher in the rev range is not going to be as bad a a small turbo straining and spinning to high revs. We all know how inefficient the small turbos can be, when the car is loaded and the engine is being worked at its full capacity. This is reason why the self-charging hybrids are much more fuel-efficient on long journeys.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by shahbaz63

Not true, It recharges on the move which means for the most part of your 300+ km trip it will have 250 BHP power available for you.

Octavia RS plug-in hybrid battery cannot be charged by the engine. It can only be charged with a wall socket connection.

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by GoBlue

Octavia RS plug-in hybrid battery cannot be charged by the engine. It can only be charged with a wall socket connection.

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

...
The disadvantage with the plug in hybrid like this one is the capability to recharge the batteries from the ICE engine continuously while on the move is missing.
...

Originally Posted by chaith.turbo

...
The electric power runs out after 50 kms, then you will be driving with just 148 BHP for the rest of the trip.
...

Originally Posted by SR-71

So, what happens once the charge is depleted, we are left with just the 1.4 motor?
...

Originally Posted by chaith.turbo

Ofcourse you can recharge, but imagine a scenario where you are on a 300+ km trip. And only the first 50 km you get 250 Bhp power and the rest you have to drive in 147 Bhp. Unless you stop to recharge every 50-60 kms. That is a big difference, the whole point of buying octavia is that it's a fun car to drive.

Some misconceptions here, thought I'll share what I learnt.

We have to keep in mind that unlike ICE development, hybrid/ EV development is more agile and what we learnt/ know/ experienced in the past may not hold true across all vehicles, manufacturers and generations. "Plug-in Hybrid" is a vast terminology now, and what's true a few years ago doesn't hold true now!

So here are a few snips from the Skoda website. The battery + motor are not going to be sitting ducks, they work in tandem with the engine. There is regenerative charging of the battery from the engine and brakes.

So in addition to having a hybrid powertrain to increase efficiency and lower emissions, this Skoda plug-in hybrid implementation allows you to use pure electric mode for longer distances - say, to office and back if your office provides a charging infra (like mine does, free of cost!).

Also, here's something from YouTube -

https://youtu.be/OG7aL6JjiyQ

[Doc_nerd]

Good step by Skoda India. Plugin hybrids are the best thing right now I feel. You get the best of both world's (ICE + EV). For daily use you can use it as a pure electric unless you floor the accelerator. On the highway there will be no range anxiety and you can use it as a regular car. Infact the mileage will be excellent per liter of petrol. The only fly in the ointment will be the CBU route as the pricing will be pretty steep.

[84.monsoon]

I agree some small level of recharge of the battery is possible using recovered energy -i.e., when the car is braking or going downhill. As far as I understand, this is different from actively charging the battery to its full or near-full capacity with the ICE engine acting as a generator to produce electricity. I doubt Octavia iV has this ability, if so there would have been a lesser need to plug in the car. The key metric (which I have been trying to find) is what percentage of battery charge can come from the ICE engine recharging it in the PHEV such as Octavia? If it is a negligible percentage it is really not consequential. Skoda has been very evasive about this.

[chaith.turbo]

Originally Posted by shahbaz63

Not true, It recharges on the move which means for the most part of your 300+ km trip it will have 250 BHP power available for you.

Yes true, but in reality it is never charges enough to make enough juice.

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

Some misconceptions here, thought I'll share what I learnt.

We have to keep in mind that unlike ICE development, hybrid/ EV development is more agile and what we learnt/ know/ experienced in the past may not hold true across all vehicles, manufacturers and generations. "Plug-in Hybrid" is a vast terminology now, and what's true a few years ago doesn't hold true now!

https://Youtu.be/OG7aL6JjiyQ

Sure, I understand what you mean. I have driven plug-in hybrid of Mercedes, Lexus, Renault and BMW. And none of them actually work in reality as explained or "marketed". The Electric motor simply runs out and you will be mostly running only on ICE.
I will be happy if to know if Skoda have come with some new technology.

[supermax]

I highly doubt that this is going to materialize, given that Škoda has removed both the Octavia and Superb PHEVs from European markets indefinitely, citing component shortages. The war in Ukraine and the already existing chip shortage have combined to put schedules out of whack.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by supermax

I highly doubt that this is going to materialize, given that Škoda has removed both the Octavia and Superb PHEVs from European markets indefinitely, citing component shortages. The war in Ukraine and the already existing chip shortage have combined to put schedules out of whack.

Normally I'd agree but in the case of Skoda Global, the India-specific VINs (& kits) would have been in planning, production and shipment months before the launch date. I don't think they will divert those to other RHD markets.

But, what may happen is a complete no-no to further production for India in the near future.

[supermax]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Normally I'd agree but in the case of Skoda Global, the India-specific VINs (& kits) would have been in planning, production and shipment months before the launch date. I don't think they will divert those to other RHD markets.

But, what may happen is a complete no-no to further production for India in the near future.

They may very well decide to sell the cars that are already dispatched or in the process of getting dispatched (if they were in that stage), but it's a typical buyer beware situation, as not only are there not going to be new RSs rolling off from a plant, but spares would be simply nonexistent. The bad-blood and bad publicity is something they'd want to avoid. If the cause is unavoidable, it's different, but here, they are already aware of a problem, so ignoring it won't be in their own best interest, so they may axe the whole thing, despite having planned for it prior to the Ukraine situation.

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I agree some small level of recharge of the battery is possible using recovered energy -i.e., when the car is braking or going downhill. As far as I understand, this is different from actively charging the battery to its full or near-full capacity with the ICE engine acting as a generator to produce electricity.

No ICE car uses the ICE engine as a generator to produce electricity for charging batteries. If you think this is done, it's not. It's simply law of conservation of energy; the amount of energy you save in the battery is what the ICE must put out, in addition to driving the vehicle, so there is no free energy here. What is done instead is cars use intelligent braking systems, to harness the braking energy which in normal cars is lost as heat and friction. Most mild hybrids have a system that works much like engine braking; you don't even need to use brakes in many cases, as just lifting off the gas pedal enables the charging flywheel to kick in. The aggressiveness of the intelligent braking is also adjustable in many models.

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

The disadvantage with the plug in hybrid like this one is the capability to recharge the batteries from the ICE engine continuously while on the move is missing. The battery is much bigger (10-20 times bigger) than that of a self-charging hybrid like the Hyryder. This means it requires the high power output from the wall charger to charge such a big battery. On the other hand, the Toyota Hyryder and the HyCross have small batteries that can be charged continuously while the vehicle is on the move from the ICE engine.

With the plug-in hybrid Octavia VRS has exhausted the range capability of the battery, it is then using a much smaller ICE engine to lug around a much heavier vehicle relative to the Octavia with the normal 2.0 TSI engine. The weight is much more, because of the large battery carried by the plug-in hybrid. This will then spin the small turbo charged 1.4 TSI engine much harder, taking it to a very inefficient rpm range of its operation. So when you do long-distance drives in the new Octavia RS, you are going to get very poor fuel efficiency, post the first 40 to 50 km run on the pure electric mode .

On the other hand, a HyCross or a Hyryder is going to have hybrid battery assist throughout the journey, since the ICE engine is able to charge the battery even every few seconds if necessary. Also the ICE engine will be operating in its normal rpm range of efficiency, or maybe slightly higher up in the range than optimal. Because these Toyotas have NA engines operating in Atkinson cycle, the FE penalty of operating slightly higher in the rev range is not going to be as bad a a small turbo straining and spinning to high revs. We all know how inefficient the small turbos can be, when the car is loaded and the engine is being worked at its full capacity. This is reason why the self-charging hybrids are much more fuel-efficient on long journeys.

There is no ICE car that does continuous charging while running (and not while braking), and there is nothing called self charging hybrid; they are mild hybrids which use braking energy to charge batteries, instead of losing the energy as heat.

[Nikhilvm4]

The bone of contention here seems to be the drop in performance after 50kms, but from what i understand, the advertised 50 kms is the "Electric Only" range. So what they are saying is you can drive upto 50kms without using a drop of fuel, clearly trying to woo the FE conscious buyers.

Whereas, if you are an enthusiast (you better be if you are buying an RS) is to drive in the hybrid mode wherein you would be getting a combined output of around 245PS for most of your drive, considering the battery would keep getting charged as you drive.

Could be wrong here but I seriously doubt Skoda would plonk anything but their best in an RS badged Octavia.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by supermax

There is no ICE car that does continuous charging while running (and not while braking), and there is nothing called self charging hybrid; they are mild hybrids which use braking energy to charge batteries, instead of losing the energy as heat.

Sorry I don't agree - based on my study of Hybrids. Please see the below standard explanation of the Toyota Hybrid System which is available on most of their dealer websites - Content reproduced below.

If what you say is true, a strong hybrid like the Toyota Hyryder, when set to cruise control for a long ride on a perfectly flat freeway with no braking at all, should have no further charging of battery happening. But we know from test driving the Hyryder etc. that this is not true, the battery is still charged and discharged even in this mode. Hyryder hybrid owners can do this test and confirm.

https://www.markville.com/electrifie...-hybrids-work/

Cruise

When cruising and under normal driving conditions, both the gasoline engine and electric motor supply power to the wheels. At higher speeds, the gasoline engine does most of the work and the electric drive motor kicks in when needed; at lower speeds, it's the other way around. Engine power is divided between the wheels and the generator for maximum efficiency by way of the planetary gear. The generator drives the electric motor and also helps recharge the hybrid battery from surplus engine power. That's why it's called a Hybrid Synergy Drive system: it all works smoothly together for amazing results.


NB - Note the difference between mild hybrids and strong hybrids. I am speaking of strong hybrids such as the Toyota Hyryder and Toyota HyCross, not mild hybrids such as MG Hector.

[niruvrs9669]

@Skoda India,

If you are bringing back vRS, get a manual 2L. Be different and punch above the belt.

Wonder who takes these calls, enthusiast in me wants a manual where I can take control. I drove a 245 vRS and found it totally dumb with all the fast shifting DSG.

Wonder how we can call these performance machines with all these DSGs, Hybrids and EVs.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

Sorry I don't agree - based on my study of Hybrids. Please see the below standard explanation of the Toyota Hybrid System which is available on most of their dealer websites - Content reproduced below.

If what you say is true, a strong hybrid like the Toyota Hyryder, when set to cruise control for a long ride on a perfectly flat freeway with no braking at all, should have no further charging of battery happening. But we know from test driving the Hyryder etc. that this is not true, the battery is still charged and discharged even in this mode. Hyryder hybrid owners can do this test and confirm.

https://www.markville.com/electrifie...-hybrids-work/

Cruise

When cruising and under normal driving conditions, both the gasoline engine and electric motor supply power to the wheels. At higher speeds, the gasoline engine does most of the work and the electric drive motor kicks in when needed; at lower speeds, it's the other way around. Engine power is divided between the wheels and the generator for maximum efficiency by way of the planetary gear. The generator drives the electric motor and also helps recharge the hybrid battery from surplus engine power. That's why it's called a Hybrid Synergy Drive system: it all works smoothly together for amazing results.


NB - Note the difference between mild hybrids and strong hybrids. I am speaking of strong hybrids such as the Toyota Hyryder and Toyota HyCross, not mild hybrids such as MG Hector.

+1.

Strong hybrids use the engine to power up the generator which in turn recharges the battery. Eg - Toyota Hyryder, Toyota Hycross, Nissan X-Trail, Toyota Prius, etc.

Ideally, the strong hybrid is a replacement for Diesels. That is the reason why we get high FE numbers from these cars while there is also no dearth of power when needed.

Now, coming to this Octy RS, what I understand (or guess) is that this is a strong hybrid with additional plugin hybrid capabilities. So that this performance car can also be used as a daily driver (which can be charged at home). In cities, it will run in pure EV mode, and out on Highways it will run in hybrid mode (combination of engine plus motor).

We should also understand that no one is ever going to use all the 245 horses on tap for 100% of long drives. And of course, during long drives, no one is going to be driving it in pure EV mode as well to drain the full battery. While most of the drive/cruising can be done with those 150 horses on tap, the real challenge is the time taken for the regeneration/charging of the battery when there is a need for the full 245 horses. The time taken for the regeneration clearly decides its success and its true character. While the regeneration time in Hycross/Hyryder is fast enough, I am skeptical about this in the Octy RS since Skoda is going overboard to highlight the feature/significance of the plug-in hybrid.