[Aditya]

When engines of smaller cars were inappropriately used in bigger cars

It's quite normal for a manufacturer to use the same engine in multiple models. Let's take the example of Maruti Suzuki. Its K12 petrol engine is used in several hatchbacks and a compact sedan. However, neither of these cars is priced too far from each other.

On the other hand, it is NOT very common to find two or more totally different types of cars from vastly different price brackets to share the same engine. Even so, such models do exist. Here is a list of some that come to mind.

Renault Duster and Mercedes A-Class Limousine

Last year, Renault launched the Duster BS6 with a 1.3-litre turbo-charged petrol engine under the hood. With 154 horses on tap, this engine transformed the Duster's character & made the old girl a hoot to drive! The Duster Turbo flies on the open road.



But then, Mercedes launched the A-Class Limousine with the same engine. It's a competent motor for the sub-20L segment, but not for 'Mercedes' money. The laggy bottom-end from the noisy & boomy motor are big letdowns. Where the same engine feels terrific in the <15-lakh Duster, it feels boring & annoying in the 40-lakh Benz. Like someone giving you roadside-style milky & sugary tea in your 5-star hotel room.

Toyota Fortuner (1st-Gen) and the Land Cruiser Prado

The 1st-Gen Fortuner was powered by a 3-litre, 4-cylinder diesel engine which made 169 BHP and 343 Nm. At launch, the Fortuner was priced at just over Rs. 18 lakhs.



In 2010, the Japanese manufacturer launched the Land Cruiser Prado at a price of Rs. 52 lakhs. What was shocking is that the Prado used the same engine as the much cheaper Fortuner. With time, the Prado went on to become a 1-crore SUV, but was powered by the same motor which felt quite noisy, utilitarian & unrefined for an 8-figure car.

Nissan Micra and Renault Fluence

Cars from the Renault - Nissan alliance would obviously share engines to keep costs down. However, while you'd expect a Nissan Sunny and Renault Duster to share engines, you'd never think that the diesel motor used in the Micra hatchback would also be deployed in the much larger, far more expensive & premium Fluence sedan. Making matters worse, it never got an AT and came in a poverty-spec variant (believe it or not, RCA inputs instead of USB)!



Of course, the engine was tuned to deliver more power and torque in the Fluence. But it was still too under-powered by segment standards (Octavia 2.0 diesel murdered it), outdated (8-valve SOHC) and crude (try high revving it - the Fluence Diesel sounds like a Sumeet Mixer-Grinder).

Toyota Etios and Toyota Corolla

Just like the Fortuner and Land Cruiser Prado, Toyota used the same engines in some of its sedans too. The Corolla Altis diesel was powered by a puny 1.4-litre engine that developed just 87 BHP and 205 Nm, which made it the least powerful diesel sedan in the D1 segment by a long way. It was horribly laggy in the city and required careful planning to overtake on the highway (if you could overtake at all was another question). Owners ended up frustrated after a long drive with 5 + luggage onboard. Unsurprisingly, the addition of the lame diesel showed no significant improvement in the Corolla's sales numbers (this, at a time when diesels were hot). Even in the Etios & Liva - where the same engine made 68 BHP - the performance was poorer than its competitors.

Skoda Octavia and Audi A4

Many BHPians refer to the Audi A4 as a fancier Octavia, and the Octavia as an A4 without the four-ringed badge. The 3rd-gen Skoda Octavia was launched with 1.4L & 1.8L turbo-charged petrol engines. The 1.4L was "strictly adequate", while the 1.8L turbo-petrol offered explosive performance. Guess what? There was a time when the cheaper Octavia had the superior 1.8L petrol but the twice-as-expensive A4 was stuck with the puny 1.4L. The small turbo-petrol might have felt "adequate" in the Octavia, but in a 40-lakh Audi A4, it was downright under-powered & boring. Brain-dead mistakes similar to this one explain Audi India's poor market performance (Whatever happened to Audi India? Why is the brand struggling since 2016?).

Tata Tiago and Tata Altroz

We didn't like the weedy 1.2-litre, 3-cylinder petrol engine in the Tiago, and we sure hate it in the Altroz. Yes, it had been tweaked and churns out 85 BHP in the Altroz, but the 1.2L NA petrol is the weakest link in an otherwise premium hatchback. It's too slow and too unrefined for the segment. We've always said that if you like the Altroz, go for the turbo-petrol or turbo-diesel powerplants.

Maruti Swift and Maruti S-Cross

India loved the Swift 1.3L diesel - it was a runaway success. With 74 BHP and 190 Nm on tap, the hatchback was peppy and quite a favourite among enthusiasts on a budget. Sadly, Maruti used the same engine in the S-Cross with a bump up in power & torque. In the heavier S-Cross, the 1.3L's performance is extremely mediocre and the engine ends up exasperated with a full load of passengers + cargo onboard. This is especially disappointing to us enthusiasts as the S-Cross feels more European than Japanese (in dynamics & build), and Maruti discontinued the delicious 1.6L DDiS version prematurely. The 1.6 made the S-Cross very exciting, whereas the S-Cross 1.3 is characterless & boring.

Maruti Gypsy and Maruti 1000

The Maruti Gypsy was launched in the 80s with a 970cc, 4-cylinder petrol engine. It produced 45 BHP and for the time, was adequate to move the tall Gypsy at <100 km/h speeds. In 1990, Maruti introduced the 1000 - a sleek sedan that looked fast while standing still! However, once it got rolling, the Maruti 1000 fell flat on its face thanks to the dead motor (same as the Gypsy). The engine had to be wrung hard to get any semblance of performance out of it & putting the air-con on (which was weak anyway) would seriously jeopardise the driving experience. Curiously, when it was launched, auto journalists raved about its performance. Turns out, the production version was nothing like the cars that the media had driven. The media vehicles were fitted with the 1.3-litre engine that only made its debut years later in the Esteem. Thanks to vivekgk for telling us about this fraud (in the trivia thread (Fun & Interesting Trivia on the Indian Car Scene)).

[Aditya]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line.

[CEF_Beasts]

One other such case was the 2.5L of the Innova that was plonked into the Fortuner in 2015 with a bump in power to 143bhp instead of the Innova's 102bhp. The 143bhp updated 2.5L should have been plonked into the Innova instead!

And funnily the 2.5L engine variants in the Fortuner were priced higher than the 3L engine variants even though it lost features like auto levelling headlamps, leather upholstery, four spoke leather-wrapped steering wheel with faux wood inserts, faux silver inserts and cruise control.

The price for reference in 2015.

3.0L 4x2 Manual - Rs. 24.26 Lakh

3.0L 4x2 Automatic - Rs. 25.26 Lakh

2.5L 4x2 Manual (TRD Sportivo) - Rs. 24.44 lakh

2.5L 4x2 Automatic (TRD Sportivo) – Rs. 25.44 lakh

[AMG Power]

I though Unsuitable Motors was the name of an FNG.

No discussion on unsuitable motors is complete without a mention of the Tata Indica - it had a Sports Mode which was the A/c switched off.

[GTO]

Will add the one you had brought up, Addy. That of the Honda CR-V & Amaze. The same diesel engine between the cars, with a difference of merely ~100cc and 19 BHP. The 1.6L Diesel was quite sad for a crossover costing 35-lakhs on the road.

[PrideRed]

This is trend common across manufacturers and price band.
Few more

1. 1.2L VTVT in Grand i10 and i20/Creta.
2. 1.5L iDTEC in Amaze and Honda City.
3. 1.5L D in Verna and Elantra.
4. 2.8L D in Fortuner and Prado
5. 2.0L D(N47?) in 320D and 520D
6. 2.0 TDi in Jetta/Octavia/Kodiaq/Tiguan/A3/A4/Q3/Q5

Providing same engine across price bands plays spoilsport and the higher priced car loses exclusivity. Engine and Gearbox still continue to be most expensive parts in car and reason why manufacturers try to push same engines across segments. Other than enthusiasts, big chunk of buyers value features, interiors, size of car more than engine gearbox combo.

[Dr.AD]

Very interesting compilation of "unsuitable engines". The cases listed are the extreme ones where a small engine in a big car is just unsuitable.

However, on a milder scale, the same phenomenon happens in some luxury segments too.

For example, BMW used the 2.0d engine in 320d, 520d, and also in X3 20d. Heck, there is even a 6GT 20d. Now this engine, with 188hp and 400Nm is not underpowered by any means. But still, the same engine from 3 series to 6 series is a bit odd.

While I am quite happy with my 320d and how the engine performs there, I would NOT want the same engine in a heavier 5 series or a 6 series. Fortunately, BMW has the option of 530d and 630d for one to choose. But I do find it a bit amusing that the 20d engine is carried over in so many different models, big and small, light and heavy!

[itsashishsharma]

1.2L petrol - Fiat Palio
1.2L petrol - Fiat Punto
1.4L petrol - Fiat Linea
1.2L petrol - Honda WR-V
1.0L petrol NA - VW Polo, Ameo
1.0L petrol - Renault Triber
1.2L T petrol - Tata Nexon
1.2L petrol - Tata Altroz

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by GTO

Will add the one you had brought up, Addy. That of the Honda CR-V & Amaze. The same diesel engine between the cars, with a difference of merely ~100cc and 19 BHP. The 1.6L Diesel was quite sad for a crossover costing 35-lakhs on the road.

Both engines were the same. The only difference was the stroke with shorter piston rods.

1.6L Engine = Bore & Stroke: 76 mm × 88 mm (2.99 in × 3.46 in)

1.5L Engine = Bore & Stroke: 76 mm × 82.5 mm (2.99 in × 3.25 in)

Honda had to do this for the Amaze to get the excise benefits and also installed a cheaper turbo that reduced the power to 100PS vs 120PS in the CR-V. Else this was the same engine block pretty much.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Keeping aside the price factor, there are several good cars who have been let down solely by their powertrain. Some top examples include:

1. Mahindra Marazzo

A mighty fine people carrier powered by a puny 1.5 liter diesel? What has Mahindra thinking? They had the excellent 2.2 mHawk at hand and that would have transformed the vehicle. The lack of automatic option didn’t help either

2. Honda Jazz/WRV.

Two competent and well built hatchbacks. Inside the engine bay is an insipid 1.2 NA petrol with an inexistent low end which opens up to a flat midrange. Add to it the tall gearing. It is as if the engineers expected people to drive at 5000+ rpm at all times. This engine was barely adequate when launched a decade ago, it is truly outclassed by the new generation of turbo petrols. Honda refuses to use the City’s 1.5 iVTEC, and it shows. Jazz, once a premium and aspirational car, is now the runt of a booming segment.

3. Honda Civic.

Enough has been written about this. To take on the mighty Octavia, Honda powers the car with the decade+ old 1.8 NA petrol, and then mates it with a CVT. In the diesel department, they gave it the City’s diesel, which was anyway the worst diesel engine even in City’s segment. And they made it manual only. Rest assured, the car sank without a trace.

4. Honda CRV

Honda’s hara kiri continues. Who in their right mind approved a 40L car with a 120hp 1.6 diesel? You get these kind of specs at 10L. Needless to say, the car was DOA and sank without a trace.

5. Renault Triber

A new, relevant, competent and well priced product from the French that is also surprisingly safe. It is like an Ertiga for Swift money. Powering it, alas, is a 1.0 NA petrol that is both underpowered and unrefined. They have a turbo variant of this engine at hand but stubbornly refuse to plonk it in. If this car fails in the market, it will be only because of the incompetence of the product planners.

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

2.0L D(N47?) in 320D and 520D

Originally Posted by Dr.AD

For example, BMW used the 2.0d engine in 320d, 520d, and also in X3 20d. Heck, there is even a 6GT 20d. Now this engine, with 188hp and 400Nm is not underpowered by any means. But still, the same engine from 3 series to 6 series is a bit odd.

Even the 220d 2 series Gran coupe has the same 2L diesel.

[ashis89]

Tata did this long ago, with the 1948cc diesel engine.

The NA version was barely adequate in the Sumo, Sierra and Estate but the Turbo variant was good. Then this Turbo variant fell short on the Safari.

[reignofchaos]

Haha for a second I thought this thread is a rant about some car dealership

Coming to the point - I'm surprised no one spoke of the 800cc Renault Kwid. It was an absolute dog to drive. Barely moved with 4 people on board.

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Aditya

Maruti Swift and Maruti S-Cross

India loved the Swift 1.3L diesel - it was a runaway success. With 74 BHP and 190 Nm on tap, the hatchback was peppy and quite a favourite among enthusiasts on a budget. Sadly, Maruti used the same engine in the S-Cross with a bump up in power & torque. In the heavier S-Cross, the 1.3L's performance is extremely mediocre and the engine ends up exasperated with a full load of passengers + cargo onboard. This is especially disappointing to us enthusiasts as the S-Cross feels more European than Japanese (in dynamics & build), and Maruti discontinued the delicious 1.6L DDiS version prematurely. The 1.6 made the S-Cross very exciting, whereas the S-Cross 1.3 is characterless & boring.

The 1.3 DDiS was (mis-)used over by Maruti and other manufacturers in larger cars than just S-Cross. Good cars that were worth the price and value were let down by this unsuitable engine. Few examples being

1) Maruti SX4



2) Fiat Linea

[VKumar]

Hyundai IMO is the king of this game in India:

The 1.2l VTVT petrol that was supposed to pull the Grand i10 / Nios, has been put in i20, Venue, and Sonet

The 1.0l T-GDi engine was fine till Nion again, but it's not the engine that you propel the Verna with. Competitors also use 1.0l engines to pull their cars, but the tune difference is clearly visible

Older 1.4l CRDi, at least when Toyota did the engine sharing with Corolla, they bothered to sue two different tunes. Hyundai simply went ahead with the same 90 hp tune of i20 in Verna and Creta lower trims

Renault/Nissan:
1.0 MPi in its N/A tune is fine for Kwid and Redi-GO, and the story should have got over right there. It is not the engine you pull a Triber with, and worse, lower trims of Magnite and Kiger too!

Maruti 1248 cc DDiS - the baby giant: Pull a Swift with it, I m fine. But putting it in S Cross and Ertiga! I mean, these are the vehicles which may end up carrying 1500-1600-1700 kilo weight to some hill station trip at times. Although they still keep moving, but see what happens to them on stop go traffic in hills on inclines, particularly those Ertiga cabs; the drivers keep on slipping the clutch to make them gain some speed.