[Sanidhya mukund]

Hello all!

I have been evaluating a few options in the sub-compact and compact car segments as I am looking for a small, convenient car for city driving. Yesterday, I had a chance to have a look at the Honda Amaze. Though the car feels light and flimsy, I was quite impressed by the fact that it has scored 4 stars in the Global NCAP crash tests. While going through the crash test report, I noticed that the tested car was made in INDIA but for SOUTH AFRICA. Now, since both countries don’t have very strict safety norms, I was under the assumption that the cars sold in both the markets would be largely the same.

When I opened the bonnet of the demo car, I noticed that the finishing of the area around the apron was absolutely disgusting to say the least! The area was unpainted and there was loads of ugly body sealant. I initially thought that this was probably because the car may be an accidental repaired car, but when I checked the Team-BHP review upon returning home, I noticed the exact same thing in the review unit. To further verify this, I looked at some used car listings, and sure enough, the same disgusting finish was omnipresent on all the examples. However, I accidentally stumbled upon a website that listed used cars in South Africa, and when I looked at South African spec Honda Amaze cars, I noticed that the same area looks much better finished.

Look how much neater does the area around the apron look on the South African model:

Red Honda Amaze from Team-BHP review:


Used South African Amaze listed on AutoTrader:


Since both the cars are different in colour, I went looking for a listing for a red Amaze in South Africa, which I found on Automart:


Close up comparison of the Aprons of the two red cars, the Team-BHP review unit and the red car listed for sale:



Now my questions are:

1. Since both cars are built in The same factory in India, why is the Apron unpainted on the Indian model and why is the sealant material not concealed?

2. Going by the difference in the finishing under the hood, can we assume that the Indian Amaze is poorly built as compared to the South African mode? Is the 4 star safety rating not applicable to the domestic market model?

PS. Sorry for the poor quality pictures, but I could not find a picture that was as good as the one from our official review.

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

1. Since both cars are built in The sale factory in India, why is the Apron unpainted on the Indian model and why is the sealant material not concealed?

Paint isn't something that can add more to the body strength of a vehicle. I would attribute it more to probably the geographical reasons. Going by the location of SA, it seems like the country must have a rich exposure to the oceanic currents, hence more humidity, and rusting must be an issue there with the cars in long run. Something similar to what we see in coastal regions in India too. But SA being at the end of peninsula and having such a long coast line, I believe that oceanic currents mush be having a higher impact on the landmass altogether.

So, if I was to sell a car in SA, probably I would do more rust proofing than I would do for a car that I have to sell in say Bhopal!

Going by the difference in the finishing under the hood, can we assume that the Indian Amaze is poorly built as compared to the South African mode? Is the 4 star safety rating not applicable to the domestic market model?

Can't be concluded. Until we have the weight data with us, especially if it's something coming from the NCAP. That said, just checked the brochures for Indian vs SA Amaze. And this is how it looks:

Since SA gets only the trims which have equipment level comparable to our V and VX trims, here is how it looks:

South Africa:

• 1.2 Trend: 923 kg
• 1.2 Comfort: 924 kg
• 1.2 Comfort CVT: 949 kg

India:

• V: 921 Kg
• VX: 924 Kg
• VX CVT: 945 Kg

Going by these figures, I don't see any huge difference between the weight. In fact, in case of Indian Amaze, I feel that there can be a mistake in brochure as the weight for V and VX manual has a difference, while the weight for V CVT and VX CVT is mentioned the same!

My conclusion: Build quality is probably consistent!

Edit: Just went through the atmospheric corrosion maps of South Africa and India, from what I can understand, the atmospheric corrosivity of South Africa is actually quite high compared to what we have in India. Probably, this is the reason, more amount of paint and component protection is used for the cars which are going to South Africa. This 2 kg difference can be easily attributed there IMO.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

2. Going by the difference in the finishing under the hood, can we assume that the Indian Amaze is poorly built as compared to the South African mode? Is the 4 star safety rating not applicable to the domestic market model?

Originally Posted by VKumar

My conclusion: Build quality is probably consistent!

IMHO - no conclusion can be drawn from these images, neither for nor against the crashworthiness of the Amaze as compared to the South African version. Also officially the results were never applicable to the Indian market!

Honda has only one car tested so far in India - that being the Mobilio, which scored a below-average rating of 3 stars. So there is no prior history with which to 'trust' the manufacturer either.

Personally - I would just wait for a proper test result or look at the crash-tested and safe alternatives in the price bracket.

[srishiva]

The second car you have listed looks different from the later SA one you have listed. You can see the difference in how the internal hoses are routed. So not sure if the second car can be considered for the comparison.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by VKumar

So, if I was to sell a car in SA, probably I would do more rust proofing than I would do for a car that I have to sell in say Bhopal!

Thank you for the detailed explanation. That actually makes sense. But IMHO Honda should have anyway given the same level of rust protection on the Indian model as well; the ugly body filler like material sticks out like a sore thumb. It gives the impression of a poorly built product with loads of cost cutting. Most of the rivals don't leave the invisible bits unpainted. Similarly priced Tatas, VWs, Hyundais and even Marutis have neatly finished engine bays. Also, some regions of India are equally susceptible to rusting.

Originally Posted by srishiva

The second car you have listed looks different from the later SA one you have listed. You can see the difference in how the internal hoses are routed. So not sure if the second car can be considered for the comparison.

I guess the hoses and other bits are different because the Team-BHP review unit was a diesel car and the SA spec used cars that I posted are all petrol models. However, the body shell (and hence the aprons) should be the same for both cars.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

But IMHO Honda should have anyway given the same level of rust protection on the Indian model as well; the ugly body filler like material sticks out like a sore thumb. It gives the impression of a poorly built product with loads of cost cutting. Most of the rivals don't leave the invisible bits unpainted. Similarly priced Tatas, VWs, Hyundais and even Marutis have neatly finished engine bays. Also, some regions of India are equally susceptible to rusting.

Each manufacturer will have their set of cost saving measures and they implement it differently. For Tata, steel is not a big concern so they arent worried about weight saving, and for Honda, it would be this way. None of my cars have fully painted engine bays. It is usually the base colour into which the entire body in white is dipped into which will be the actual covering on the entire body. Like for some colours like White, Black, Grey etc the base colour and the final colour look the same and hence they are dipped into the same shade they end up in. But for the other colours like the Yellow of my Celerio, the base colour would be white into which the BIW is dipped in, and then the yellow will be sprayed on.

Sometimes, if the colour is in good demand, then they might consider the dip method since this is a very big deal and if the volumes of that colour are low, it would not make sense to do the same. Maybe the Indian Maroon and the African Maroon colours are different, and also could be that they are manufactured on different lines and not the same.

You could also check out a Grey or any other coloured Amaze if they too have the same issue or not. But all in all, I personally feel this whole build quality thing is making everyone overly paranoid. That is just my opinion.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by audioholic

You could also check out a Grey or any other coloured Amaze if they too have the same issue or not. But all in all, I personally feel this whole build quality thing is making everyone overly paranoid. That is just my opinion.

Thank you for the info! Seems like another plausible explanation. However, the thing is, I noticed that every Indian Amaze had unpainted aprons, irrespective of color, while every South African Amaze had this region painted.
Also, if you look at similarly priced cars, almost all of them, including Swift, Dzire, i10 Nios etc. have painted aprons. Also, the ugly sealant like material is visible only on the Honda Amaze.

[y2k]

Originally Posted by VKumar

This 2 kg difference can be easily attributed there IMO.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Personally - I would just wait for a proper test result or look at the crash-tested and safe alternatives in the price bracket.

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

I guess the hoses and other bits are different because the Team-BHP review unit was a diesel car and the SA spec used cars that I posted are all petrol models. However, the body shell (and hence the aprons) should be the same for both cars.

Originally Posted by audioholic

You could also check out a Grey or any other coloured Amaze if they too have the same issue or not. But all in all, I personally feel this whole build quality thing is making everyone overly paranoid. That is just my opinion.

Was there a conclusive consensus achieved on this at any time post the thread was created?

I am in the same dilemma now thinking if it is safe to believe that the Indian Amaze is the same as the African Amaze with 4 stars in the GNCAP rating?

[anjan_c2007]

South Africa imports its requirements from the EU market paying a nominal duty of 18% under a free trade agreement. Besides, they have their own industry with marques including Ford, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, VW, Mahindra and some more. Hence the market is quite competitive for every segment.

With low duties and the competitive play fields with the best brands, Honda could have suo moto taken proactive steps to deliver their best, so as to remain competitive. Our duties plus taxes, insurance charges (3 yrs compulsory now) are high which also deters car makers from offering goodies, as they are mortally afraid that the ex-showroom price could skyrocket. Also many of the car makers still have a laid back approach.

Here in India, they have a only a few locally made competitors in this Amaze segment and their Global safety stars could be even three but they sell very well here. With Zero Stars the Alto, Swift and Dzire managed to remain the best selling cars in India for years together.

A majority of our buyers are not yet very educated when it comes to choosing the right car. "Average kya deti hain", "yeh gaadi bahut accha hain" (recommendation by a known person) and "iska bikri bahut jyada hain" are basic Q's and word of mouth recommendations that a buyer satisfies himself with.

Hence despite the several brands, their models, their X, ZX, ZZX and more variants, overall our market has not come a long way from the Premier - Ambassador decades when it comes to benefitting the customer.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by y2k

Was there a conclusive consensus achieved on this at any time post the thread was created?

That would only be possible if the GNCAP had tested the Amaze.

Originally Posted by y2k

I am in the same dilemma now thinking if it is safe to believe that the Indian Amaze is the same as the African Amaze with 4 stars in the GNCAP rating?

Under the current GNCAP protocols, the Amaze will not cross two stars.

The African Amaze performed well enough for five stars at the time but was capped at four because it did not have a passenger-side seatbelt reminder. A five-star rating for the Indian one could have been possible. Amaze sales in Africa were in the early double digits despite Africa being the only other market for the Amaze, so it's unlikely there were multiple versions being built. Additionally two older Indian Honda models, the Jazz and 4th-gen City, scored four-star ratings in Feb 2022 (with the old protocols).

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by ron178

The African Amaze performed well enough for five stars at the time but was capped at four because it did not have a passenger-side seatbelt reminder. A five-star rating for the Indian one could have been possible.

A flimsy ground to deny five star rating. This is problem with relying on NCAP. NCAP car should focus crash worthiness and award points on that rather than deduct points if an alarm is missing. No wonder cars are getting expensive and complex.

[y2k]

Originally Posted by ron178

That would only be possible if the GNCAP had tested the Amaze.

Under the current GNCAP protocols, the Amaze will not cross two stars.

The African Amaze performed well enough for five stars at the time but was capped at four because it did not have a passenger-side seatbelt reminder. A five-star rating for the Indian one could have been possible. Amaze sales in Africa were in the early double digits despite Africa being the only other market for the Amaze, so it's unlikely there were multiple versions being built. Additionally two older Indian Honda models, the Jazz and 4th-gen City, scored four-star ratings in Feb 2022 (with the old protocols).

Thanks for sharing that bit. It is such a confusing market right now. I was looking at Glanza but reading up more about it, I think Baleno is a better choice. Quite frustrating and what Indian consumers are getting for the money they pay is depressing to think of.