[JayKis]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan42

When it comes to matters of the future, I'm a hopeless worrier. I worry about saving up enough to be able to do what I want (a mix of ecological conservation and writing, but that's for another time). I also want to be comfortable enough to buy into or maintain a certain lifestyle, which does extend to cars and motorcycles. A perfect case of can't have your cake and eat it too.

This pathological obsession with keeping an eye out on the future has basically rendered me catatonic in the present.
Whatever the reason, I feel like I'm forgoing my present in pursuit of a supposedly rosy future. While planning for what is yet to come isn't a particularly bad thing in itself, please avoid falling into the trap that I find myself in. I for one probably will practice mindfulness a little more than I merely tell myself to, and I might just go ahead and buy that sweet-inline 4-middleweight-naked-that's-comfy-but-not-as-heavy-as-its-cheaper-predecessor.

Very interesting thoughts.

As a guy who has been certainly a minimalist in my life (along with a spouse in the same manner) here are my thoughts.


The most money consuming things in your life

1) Education -Treat this as a business. One should be able to weigh how an additional education (higher) would be able to give you a payout that makes financial sense. It is tough.

2) House -Dont buy one if you have no need. Stay on rent. Buying one ties you to a place and limits your job opportunities.

3) New Car -Buy a new one only if you are absolutely sure that you are going to stick with it for at least 10 years or so. Nowadays it is easier to get one used. Do a few tweaks and should be good to go for another 5 years.

4) Marriage -Call only people you care about. This is not a competition item

5) Rent -shouldn't exceed 20% of your take home salary. Also try staying close to your place of work. Removes travel cost, stress of travel, unlocks a lot of time to spend with your loved ones and your hobbies.

Additional thoughts

6) Avoid debt, if you can.

7) Research each item you buy. The more you research, the lesser you need it!

8) Make use of PPF and Retirement plans. They lock your money which is beyond your impulsive desires. Start PPF/SSY early for your children. The compounding often works wonders.

9) Never buy anything for Vanity.

10) Keep a tab of all (yes all) your expenses in an excel. Do it month on month, diligently.

These steps unlock a lot of capital so that you can indulge in small small things that fulfil your life quite often.

[SN88]

Originally Posted by GTO

Neat post, man. Couple of thoughts:



- Back to the automotive world, the good news is, it's a myth that you need to spend money to have fun with cars or get driving pleasure. I have had the absolute time of my life with cheap & fun cars like the S-Presso, Alto K10, Brio, Swift (especially with good tyres), Abarth Punto (oh man!!!), Fiesta 1.6, Figo 1.5 Diesel (what a car!), Polo 1.6 TDIs & Rapid 1.0 TSIs (left me grinning for a week after the drive), my 24-year old Jeep with a book value of zero etc. My point is, if you are stingy, but still want to have a lot of fun, there are so many options. The guy who bought my modified Civic for 2.xx lakhs has been high-revving away to glory, I can tell you that .



It's all about balance and I guess you are looking for that. Between saving for the future & spending a little more on today. Hope you find it soon! What I will add though is that, stretch a little bit more for cars / motorcycles because driving / riding are such good + healthy + positive passions to have. Unlike say, smoking or gambling or alcoholism etc. Driving is good for the mind, body & soul .

Exactly my thoughts!! I go through a similar feeling as the OP being in my early thirties as well . Have just started to feel like i am doing well and whether i can take it for granted that these "settled times" will last or not. This question props up everytime i feel like splurging.

Then figured always get a sense of balance. For eg firstly to have fun for yourself and not what society deems fun as. Nobody comes to pay your bills and nobody has the right to judge you as to how you spend your hard earned money!
Second for eg if you think a budget of 10 lacs is spendable on a car then instead of buying new, buy a 2 - 3 year old car, spend a bit to get it to perfect condition, modify it as per personal preference and have fun. (just an eg for a car)

[TheCatalyst]

As most of it is already covered by all the previous wonderful posts, I can only think of one line my French teacher said to me during college -

"Happiness is right here, but are you?"

The words still touch me and I have learnt to find it in small things in life.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by JayKis

10) Keep a tab of all (yes all) your expenses in an excel. Do it month on month, diligently.

I am fully appreciative of the fact that plenty of people need to keep track of what they are spending. But I can not think of anything worse than having my life determined by a spread sheet.

I think for many of us, there is plenty to enjoy in life with minimum or no expense at all.

Don’t focus on what you can’t afford or need to save for a very long time. Enjoy the moment. The spread sheet won’t bring you happiness, nor prosperity, nor longevity I think.

Each to its own of course.
Jeroen

[landcruiser123]

Everything I say in this post is purely my personal opinion. If humans had a single definition of living life, we'd all be the same and the world would be too boring.

Originally Posted by Sudarshan42

When it comes to matters of the future, I'm a hopeless worrier. I worry about saving up enough to be able to do what I want (a mix of ecological conservation and writing, but that's for another time).

Ah, don't worry - you're not the only one. Looks like you wish to be part of bandwagon of F.I.R.E moment. https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/what...-fire-movement

Regarding what you want to do - wouldn't it be possible to start small? Example: A home garden and a blog can potentially help kick start your passion. I know a particular gentleman who started with his backyard garden 20 years ago but owns 2-3 large farms near Hosur today and makes his money from an organic farming business.

I also want to be comfortable enough to buy into or maintain a certain lifestyle, which does extend to cars and motorcycles. A perfect case of can't have your cake and eat it too.

Well, then you do need some alternate sources of income. If you own a business, you can write off cars as a business expense.

...money as my little workers, eking out a little interest here, a little interest there- all the while holding back some of my other interests.

Nothing wrong with that. Also, focus on the other investments like property, stocks, etc to make money grow even faster compared to the banks & FDs.

What else is it then? Could it be my middle-class grooming that teaches me to squeeze value from everything I own to its absolute hilt?
Attachment 2117793

Oh, don't worry - even I try to squeeze value out of every single thing. As Kiyosaki said in his book - Rich Dad, Poor Dad - The rich get rich by not spending money, but by investing - either in themselves (upskilling) or into the financial system.

Sidenote on the toothpaste: I cut the tube (used & flattened) along the narrower edge. There is usually enough paste remaining to brush once.

Whatever the reason, I feel like I'm forgoing my present in pursuit of a supposedly rosy future.

It is a sacrifice we must make. But taking the simple daily pleasures of life is what makes our life interesting. For example:
1. I look forward to my daily run more than a vacation I'll take once every 6 months
2. I'd rather be reading a few books on business/entrepreneurship than watching hours of Netflix
3. I'll try cooking a dish rather than buying it

[COMMUTER]

Losing a classmate to heart attack when he was just 29 changed my mindset completely. I grew a bit apprehensive of making huge investments that bog us down for a significant portion of our lifetime with the promise of flourishing in the 'future' which passes me by every single day.

I have come to understand that the amount of 'recognition' one gets for making such investments rarely amounts to anything in any sort of relationship. If people really wishes us well then we need not be required to stretch our budget to be in their good books.

These unnecessary displaying of the signs of unaffordable opulence gets aggravated by the masses being oblivious to the fact that those are meant to prop-up one's credit worthiness in the eyes of gullible onlookers rather than being a sign of inner fulfilment.

Practically, man's problems are centred around three paradoxes. He constantly feels pain, greed and fear in his heart and tries to medicate self with various pursuits. More the pleasure he immerses himself in, more despondent he feels. More wealth he gains to placate his greed, more desperate he ends up being. All the measures he takes to feel safe leaves him all the more vulnerable and petrified. The only solution is to understand the problem of man's heart.

I feel that my pursuit in finding it had reaped great rewards.

[V.Narayan]

Several interesting and insightful posts. Each of us has our own unique relationship with money carved out from our upbringing, our values, our aspirations and our fears. And no one formula fits all or even some.

Through my life I stayed focused on 'growing the income' and ' growing the saving'. I never focused on controlling the spend. Never kept accounts. My spouse and I are not big spenders or habitual buyers. But whatever we buy is the top most quality or brand available. So fewer things {relative to income and position in society} but of the best quality available. One advantage of quality - things last forever. My daily use fountain pen pre-dates GTO having passed high school; I still wear shoes from the late 1990s etc

The only acquisition on which I have overstretched has been the houses we lived/live in. Just my philosophy that one should be proud of the locality one lives in and be able to state it with pride. As for cars, interestingly, given that in India we now have a show off factor at play, I have always gone for one segment lower than what I could have bought without a car loan. Inverted snobbery may be.

One area which we the well off should look at, as I'm sure most on Team BHP do, is to spend more than just a little bit on giving back to society. That is also a wonderful asset to buy, the asset of giving in our own way.

[warrioraks]

Originally Posted by Sudarshan42

When it comes to matters of the future, I'm a hopeless worrier .....

I also want to be comfortable enough to buy into or maintain a certain lifestyle, which does extend to cars and motorcycles....

I have enough already in my early thirties to support a family of 3 and take nearly a decade off work (provided all luxuries are set aside). So why am I stuck in this quagmire? ...

Could it be my middle-class grooming that teaches me to squeeze value from everything I own to its absolute hilt?

Your post made me re-live years of my life. In my case, I attribute it to the middle-class upbringing. But certain things have turned me from a hopeless worrier to a hopeful botherer

This is what I have realised over a period of time:
1. Health is the biggest investment we can make for ourselves. A healthy body breeds a calmer mind. Maybe vice-versus is true as well but this was one of the must under-rated aspect in my life.
2. Getting the right insurance at the right time minimises the risk of capital erosion to an extent.
3. There is no alternate to financial security/independence. You having saved off for a decade is a really good place to be in.
4. Ancient wisdom indicates that obsession with materialistic desires leads to misery. Reading on the topic from time to time has helped me in finding some balance. Not that I have become a sage, but for some reason, these teachings and methods does tend to have a positive effect on me.
5. We all have limited money. I prioritise my spending decisions based on the amount of time I interact with that thing. Example: I happily overspent on my phone but have been postponing my decision to buy a new TV. Obviously certain things that make me really happy (travel, etc) are an exception even though the interaction is short lived.
6. Once decided on what to buy, it is better to invest in quality upfront on things that rather than saving few bucks and regretting later.
7. Lastly, small happinesses do matter. I remember in my first job, I went overboard on saving. Even hundred bucks of extra expense would worry me. In hindsight, I was penny wise and pound foolish. So do not forget to enjoy the small things in the journey of life.

Sorry for the long post but as I said, your thread sent me down memory lane. I kept on reminiscing and typing for the last hour or so

[Gsynch]

Very interesting thread indeed. I am in my mid-forties and obviously have seen some ups and downs in all these years.

Money: earning, saving, spending is obviously very important to lead a meaningful life, dependence on it varies from person to person. My experience on leveraging money thus far is:

Pay for experiences, not for stuff – Experiences often provide more happiness than material goods because they are more likely to make us feel connected to others. For me, a Rado watch which I always wanted is less important than a family vacation to Singapore.

Buy time – It’s a no-brainer. Spending quality time with family and friends greatly increases our happiness. Too much time spent working/paying bills/commuting has the opposite effect. So if one can afford it, should employ drivers (for weekday runs or family members), maids, helpers and treat them well. It is also an indirect way to sharing your wealth.

Treat yourself (Always have something to look forward to) – Steering a steady financial course is the best approach with occasional splurges to reward yourself or your loved ones. Avoid indulging too frequently as it may derail your expectations and happiness. Mid-size sedan - done, 4X4 Jeep - By 2022, German Marquee - By 2025 :-)

Reduce Financial Stress – Freedom from worry may be the biggest gift you can give yourself and your loved ones. Life insurance policies, medical insurance for the whole family, retirement saving...

[CarJunki]

Apart from necessities of life, the only thing worth buying with money is time.

[laser2707]

This is the Classic Indian Middle Class dilemma. An issue we struggle with daily. Despite rising incomes & standards of living, most of us are loath to splurge. Which explains the high rate of domestic savings in India & the ability of most Indians to stay out of the debt trap. A plague that afflicts the middle class in the West.

Speaking for myself, I watched my parents struggle to bring us up, making numerous sacrifices. Some visible to us, most hidden from us. Things we got to know about only when we grew up. I have a deep respect (not worship) for money. I am very careful with my spending. I usually settle not for the best but the max bang for the buck.

I take great care of my possessions & I squeeze years of use from them. I still possess & "fit" into my wedding suits. I use a watch which is soon going to enter its second decade of existence. My one indulgence is eating out. I have eaten at really fancy restaurants, but I limit these forays to maybe once or twice a year. For most other times a dosa or pav bhaji gives me as much of a kick.

Despite conservative spending, challenges are the high cost of education, healthcare, conveyance. These expense items have a nasty habit of upsetting your saving plans.

In conclusion, for me saving is a reflex action. My approach is save but spend on quality of life & stay away from debt.

[adithya.kp]

Nice thread. I dont think there is any right/wrong answer. The most common answer for this is, avoid instant gratification, save/invest for rainy day etc. But then if you defer everything, you may not enjoy it after a few years. I think the ideal thing would be find a balance.
Even people who are financially independent will always be in a dilemma. The reason is, they think its not good enough. Not due to inflation. But the salary has gone up quite a lot over the years. (Today 25 lac is common salary. Tomorrow 50 lac could be considered common. Even after adjusting for inflation, the increase is very high. Tomorrow this might create a huge gap)
(Of course, this may indirectly affect inflation. I am not referring to it)

[Schneller]

This is the thinking of almost every middle class guy you may come across. And it is not a bad one. Everyone of us must remember at-least one example of a middle class person who amassed a lot of wealth, spent it without limits and then became a classic example of what not to do in the society they live in. This further makes us triple or even quadruple think our big spends, even if we've amassed a-lot of wealth.

This is something that is built into our middle class minds. Even when you do take the plunge and splurge on something, there is usually a feeling of guilt that comes in your mind a few days or weeks after. "Isse aadhe paise me bhi kaam acche se hojaata".

Recently, i bought a new car, or rather my father bought me a new car which was 28L on road. A few weeks later, i had the same words coming into my mind. Why did i spend so much? What if i had invested all this into stocks, into MF's, into real estate, the possibilities are endless. Why didn't i buy a cheaper car? Why didn't i stick to my older car (which still had ALOT of life left and was in perfect condiiton)

But, being on both the sides, saving, then splurging and feeling guilty, i have realised one thing. If you really want something and instead of buying it you save the money, that thing will always be revolving as a wish in your mind and you will never be at peace or enjoy. If could wanted a Mercedes and could afford one but, instead bought a Creta, you will still long for a Mercedes unless you buy it. (the itch doesn't go away) You will also not enjoy the Creta as much. So, better to go ahead and buy what you want. As a 23 year old, i have sizeable savings which no one in my circle has but, i still remember the happiness from the moments and things i spent my money on, not from my investments.

Solution? When it comes to cars, the moment you buy your car, start planning financially for the next one which is 5-6-7 years down the line. And make appropriate investments / savings for it beforehand. This way you won't feel the pinch.

You will still feel guilty though

[ramsudhir]

Very nicely written. This piece is reflecting the intellection that most of us live with. However, in the case of driving, I at one stage realized that it may not be a good idea to have the same thought process as we may or may not enjoy the sheer pleasure we take out of driving once we grow older. I am not saying we cannot enjoy riding but I feel there will definitely be some change. So I don't feel like compromising when it comes to buying vehicles, be it a two-wheeler or four-wheeler. Like many others have written, I wait and stack up funds before buying a steed of my choice.
In the end, the right balance is what we need to strike to be happy.

[SN88]

Just remembered a brilliant article and I cannot remember the author of it but it said " when you wish to buy a luxurious item, Invest that money in something that pays for it"

I never practised the above, but to think of it, it makes complete sense if you know how to invest your money well.