[Bluengel180]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

As far as I am concerned, this is a great move. Manual transmission is a relic from the past should have been long phased out. It has lingered on far too long in India but is fortunately losing its grip now. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to bother changing gears when it can be done automatically. We let the vehicle decide how to apply ABS, how to handle fuel injection and so many other things. Let it handle the transmission as well. When the world is moving towards autonomous driving, there are people still worrying about changing gears! I hope all manufacturers will follow suit.

There are people that actually enjoy driving old school. Not everything has to be about convenience.

Same argument as in HPS vs EPS.

[mayukh42]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

Manual transmission is a relic from the past should have been long phased out. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to bother changing gears when it can be done automatically. We let the vehicle decide how to apply ABS, how to handle fuel injection and so many other things. Let it handle the transmission as well. When the world is moving towards autonomous driving, there are people still worrying about changing gears!

It is all about choice, especially when it is possible to have it without added design cost (since the same engine does have MT on a sibling model). So it is not unnatural to expect the same here too.

People who like driving a manual stick shifter do not "worry" about changing gears. They actually enjoy it.

What makes a car fun to drive will vary from person to person; one size does not fit all.

Clearly having a 1.5MT would eat away sales of the Skoda, which is why they have decided to not have it here. This decision has nothing to do with bringing the latest and greatest tech here, else we'd have had the TDI (Euro VI compliant since a good number of years now) options too.

[YashodhanGanu]

The 1.5 tsi MT Virtus would have been the natural successor to our 1.6 Mpi Vento (2011 model). Seems like we'll have to settle for the Skoda Slavia 1.5 MT.

[shishir333]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

As far as I am concerned, this is a great move

Adding to the replies above, I have one question...

How is this a great move?

Adding safety features is a great move, adding airbags is a great move, adding automatics to the lower variant is a great move, downsizing engines might still be a good move (fuel efficiency) but how is removing manual a good move.

You enjoy a manufacturer removing something which some people really like but you dont?
Here is a Poll (The 2017 Poll: Manual vs Automatic Gearbox) from GTO which clearly shows that more than 16% of us here love MT and 45% may still chose MT based on the car. Its 5 years old but I still believe there are many stick shift lovers.

Besides DQ200 is not what I would ever buy despite the praise. I drive a lot at night on the highways throughout the country. I would not like the idea to buy something that has the the tendency to fail be it once in many years.
Imagine driving on a lonely stretch of highway past midnight with your family and your car stalls...would you like to get into that situation?

[shibujp]

What a bummer! They should just look at how the 1.0 TSI in MT guise really set the charts on fire with it's keen pricing to understand how a 1.5 MT offered at a couple of lakhs cheaper will draw an enthusiast on the sidelines into their fold.

To trim the car in a sport guise and then not offer an MT option is a bit of a miss. And I would not think that someone looking for a Virtus MT will settle for a Taigun MT. That's an SUV vs Sedan choice anyway. I for one like the Virtus GT treatment much more than the Slavia. When buying the Polo GT TDI I would have seriously considered the Polo 1.2 TSI if it had a manual option.

Originally Posted by shishir333

Adding to the replies above, I have one question...

How is this a great move? Its 5 years old but I still believe there are many stick shift lovers.

Hell yeah!!



Drive on,
Shibu

[HammerHead]

Originally Posted by shishir333

So the 1.5TSI + MT is not coming in Virtus
Its a shame. To me this was hands down a better looker than the Slavia and going by VWs reputation this must have been a better handler with stiffer suspension.

Was that the case with Volkswagen Vento as compared to Skoda Rapid? Asking as I believed that Rapid's suspension setup was better than that of Vento's. I'm talking about 1.6 diesel variants here.

[shishir333]

Originally Posted by HammerHead

Was that the case with Volkswagen Vento as compared to Skoda Rapid?

I should have added "lately" in there because I got into VW world post 2015!
My polo had stiffer suspension compared to my friend's rapid 1.0 TSI. Noticed the same with kushaq vs taigun and reviewers said the same about T-Roc vs Karoq. Skoda has better ride and VW has better handling

On a side note, I had driven the 3rd gen octavia and there is no comparison but off late I noticed this to be the case, specially with their entry level offerings

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to bother changing gears when it can be done automatically.

There has been no such reason for decades, but, world-wide, many many drivers still choose manual transmission. Isn't USA the only major country where AT has been the standard for a long time?

I'm getting old. I'd love an AT for city driving. But hey, give me the choice!

In other thoughts: I love the looks and lines of this car.

[fossilpastprime]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

As far as I am concerned, this is a great move. Manual transmission is a relic from the past that should have been long phased out. It has lingered on far too long in India but is fortunately losing its grip now. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to bother changing gears when it can be done automatically. We let the vehicle decide how to apply ABS, how to handle fuel injection and so many other things. Let it handle the transmission as well. When the world is moving towards autonomous driving, there are people still worrying about changing gears! I hope all manufacturers will follow suit.

Not quite in agreement.

If it was about leading the way, away from MTs then the move would have been to discontinue that in the smaller engine offering also, which would in any way be a better seller churning more numbers.

It is about an engine and transmission combination which is readily available with the company which they are not offering and that is strange especially since they are offering it on the Slavia. Leads one to believe that it is more a marketing strategy than a technology push. And it is not hard to guess who benefits from it.

VW is one huge group with several iconic brands but it is not comparable to an Apple in computer hardware, a company which has on several occasions made changes to their product which makes the client take a leap of faith. We cannot expect that in case of Volkswagen. It will simply make that customer who is specific about his requirements, look away from this Virtus offering.

Look at the product offering of VW India (the Volkswagen line only). No diesels and I am told nothing can be expected before 2023-24. Creature comforts inside the vehicle are limited as compared to the Koreans and MG. Under the circumstances the reason why people still prefer the VW product is the fun to drive element. With such limited offerings, it is unfair to restrict choices even further for the VW customer who is already suffering because the other driver centric product (Ford) in the market has already exited the country.

Within VAG, the brand perception of VW product line was above that of Skoda. At least for India, the product line up does not justify such perception any longer.

Sorry to write so much, it only shows that Virtus was the car which I liked over the Slavia in practically all aspects, apart from this very, very important one. A timeless Volkswagen design that does not make a fashion statement like a tuxedo but remains in style like the regular 2pc business suit.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by fossilpastprime

Within VAG, the brand perception of VW product line was above that of Skoda. At least for India, the product line up does not justify such perception any longer.

Wasnt it mentioned in the press that for India 2.0 and the India specific platform, Skoda is the boss for driving it and not VW? Hence, it looks like Skoda does all the launches first, plan their variant spread and equipment. Later the VW team is brought into the room to choose whats left of all the capacity, parts bin, supplier contracts etc. Thats why even though the resultant VW product might look more desirable, things like the variant distribution and launch is messed up with.

The result of this is evident in the forum itself - The Kushaq review thread has twice the visits and post count compared to the Taigun.

Coming to the whole variant mess up, its the same case in the Taigun too. You dont get a fully loaded manual 1.5 as well as a fully loaded 1.0 either in manual or automatic. Thats sorted in both Kushaq as well as Slavia. Nothing more can prove who has the upper hand in the whole India 2.0 project.

[fossilpastprime]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Wasnt it mentioned in the press that for India 2.0 and the India specific platform, Skoda is the boss for driving it and not VW? Hence, it looks like Skoda does all the launches first, plan their variant spread and equipment. Later the VW team is brought into the room to choose whats left of all the capacity, parts bin, supplier contracts etc. Thats why even though the resultant VW product might look more desirable, things like the variant distribution and launch is messed up with.

The result of this is evident in the forum itself - The Kushaq review thread has twice the visits and post count compared to the Taigun.

Coming to the whole variant mess up, its the same case in the Taigun too. You dont get a fully loaded manual 1.5 as well as a fully loaded 1.0 either in manual or automatic. Thats sorted in both Kushaq as well as Slavia. Nothing more can prove who has the upper hand in the whole India 2.0 project.

Absolutely right, and not just that, the Skoda dealer also makes it a point to rub it in pointing out that please note that now the name Skoda precedes VW in the moniker Skoda Auto Volkswagen India Pvt. Ltd.

[madraspaiyan]

Not sure what VW has against manuals. With Taigun, they offered the 1.5L manual as a favour to the enthusiasts; cutting down on some features that were available even on the 1.0L.
They are already making it in their lines and they know there is a strong demand. So, what’s stopping them from offering it on 1.5L Virtus?
Imagine a customer walking into a VW showroom to buy a manual 1.5 Virtus. Is the SA going to tell the customer to visit the Skoda showroom instead?

[stringbh]

The point is that, there is a hesitancy in going for DSG due to reliability issues, and hence it was important to have a MT also on offer. We can keep talking all day about how it is a technologically innovative move to push people to go for AT, but not offering 1.5L MT is a definite push towards Slavia and nothing else.

Originally Posted by audioholic

Coming to the whole variant mess up, its the same case in the Taigun too. You dont get a fully loaded manual 1.5 as well as a fully loaded 1.0 either in manual or automatic.

Not all is lost, as Skoda forgot to pick up that GT badge from the letters bin, which VW proudly displays on the 1.5L variant. The red accents on the dashboard and center console are a first in Taigun which is only now being offered (probably) in Kushaq Monte Carlo

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by stringbh

Not all is lost, as Skoda forgot to pick up that GT badge from the letters bin, which VW proudly displays on the 1.5L variant. The red accents on the dashboard and center console are a first in Taigun which is only now being offered (probably) in Kushaq Monte Carlo

The GT badge is something VW team would have demanded since if they really had to fit a name there, Volkwagen would be too long. But yes Skoda gets the painted center console after Taigun.

[ACe_10]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Skoda is the boss for driving it and not VW? Hence, it looks like Skoda does all the launches first, plan their variant spread and equipment. Later the VW team is brought into the room to choose whats left of all the capacity, parts bin, supplier contracts etc.

Do you see any impact on VW consumers 3-5 years down the line. If sales dry up for VW group - very possible given that have lost their bread and butter product in Polo and Tiguan is unlikely to do any serious numbers - we may see dealers resorting to 'aggressive' billing strategies during services and repairs. Not to mention general drop in standard and an inability to retain good people.