[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Could this "kit" be the rear differential lock? .

Originally Posted by Sheel

Toyota has the active traction control. While it can not work as a locking differential.

I believe cool_dube is referring to this feature on the Australian model

Rear cross-axle differential lock – Disables all electronics when it is activated, and can only be used in low range

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...tem-explained/

Originally Posted by GTO

Boss said he wants to see revenue & profit growth. What to do?

Let's milk our small model range some more with an even more expensive variant. From the business POV, it makes sense. For a car that sells in the 4-digits month after month, getting a couple of hundred to pay more shouldn't be difficult.

Hope, they launch a 4x4 Petrol variant too.

Sadly, truth is, more than 80% of Fortuner sales comes from 2 W variant. Most people buy Fortuner for its presence. Toyota may develop a captain seat variant for Fortuner for our market

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by GTO

Let's milk our small model range some more with an even more expensive variant

And I won't be surprised if Legender ends up with good sales, given that the Fortuner is bought as more of a status symbol in India rather than a capable tourer/off-roader. The "big shots" won't mind spending a few lacs more to be right there at the top of the food chain

Originally Posted by Sheel

Toyota has the active traction control. While it can not work as a locking differential, would request watching few videos of a comparison between both.

Originally Posted by Turbanator

I believe cool_dube is referring to this feature on the Australian model

In my humble opinion, no electronics (A-TRAC being more or less same as the "BLD" on new Thar, in principle, just being given a fancy name) can match mechanical capability (a locking diff is a locking diff at the end of the day). While the A-TRAC vs. locking diff discussion is more relevant to hardcore off-roading, a bigger advantage that the Endeavour has is that of being a full-time 4WD, providing absolutely reassuring control on the vehicle during those rainy highway drives - believe me, I have experienced the worst of it in my Safari (a part-time 4WD) and the best of it in my Pajero SFX (with its amazing Super Select II system). It makes a world of difference! Wish it was not taken away from the Fortuner.

Originally Posted by Sheel

OT, but wish the MU-X in refresh avatar came soon.

Won't make a difference, unless Isuzu does something about its wafer-thin dealer network.

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

..............
In my humble opinion, no electronics (A-TRAC being more or less same as the "BLD" on new Thar, in principle, just being given a fancy name) can match mechanical capability............

You then should try the ATRAC sometime or watch Anshuman's videos on Youtube.
I agree that both have their own advantages in different scenarios but the Toyota system is so well tuned that it covers more than 90% of the encountered scenarios and comes out a winner compared to the rear locking diff of the Endevour.

Also with a locking rear differential there is a high risk of damage to the axle in case the system is not used properly or turning on hard gripping surfaces.
Hence that ATRAC is more than enough almost all of the normal times. One really has to intentionally put the vehicle in a scenario where the locking rear diff can only work.

Also if there is a scenario where both the rear wheels do not have adequate traction and the electronics are off, you're royally stuck. Nothing can be done. ATRAC works in such scenarios rather beautifully.

Regarding the full time 4wd driveline, well those are now long lost. The fact that it is on the Endevour does not justify that 2L engine.
But I'm surprised that you mention that rainy highway drives on the safari. I have had safaris right from the 2L diesel power plant through the 3L one and now I'm using the 2.2 Varicor 400nm and I've never felt that "bad" that you speak of. The vehicles have always been very well in control be it high speed highways or mountain highways.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Fortuner is bought as more of a status symbol in India rather than a capable tourer/off-roader.

Absolutely, the more the bling, the better its sell.

no electronics (A-TRAC).. can match mechanical capability (a locking diff is a locking diff at the end of the day). The bigger advantage of a full-time 4WD is the absolutely reassuring control on the vehicle

Permanent 4WD helps but does affect mileage. A-Trac does work in real situations so we cannot discount but Electronics can be a problem as seen in practical conditions. Manufacturers need to take a conscious call on the intended customer base and the segment they want to pitch.

the best of it in my Pajero SFX (with its amazing Super Select II system).

Don't we get a 4 High mode in the current Fortuner?

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

You then should try the ATRAC sometime or watch Anshuman's videos on Youtube

I do not want to turn this discussion into another of those zillion Fortuner vs. Endeavour discussions BTW, in addition to a locking rear differential, the Endeavour also has an active transfer case to transfer torque on-demand across rear and front axles so if both real wheels are bogged down (in which case the rear locker is rendered ineffective), torque transfer is still possible to the front axle which can pull one out if front wheels have traction.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

The fact that it is on the Endevour does not justify that 2L engine.

I do not see any correlation between the engine size and full-time 4WD

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Permanent 4WD helps but does affect mileage.

Absolutely!

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Don't we get a 4 High mode in the current Fortuner?

We do, but it is that of a traditional part-time 4WD system, wherein it cannot be used on tarmac.

Edit: Apologies for going off-topic. Let's get back to discussing the Legender and it's arrival in India.

[Venkatesh]

2021 Toyota Fortuner Legender spied during TVC shoot in Bangalore











Source : Rushlane

[CEF_Beasts]

Why is Toyota so stingy on features? No 360 deg camera, no radar based safety features (Toyota logo is the key here to spot radar based features), Legender spotted here doesn’t have the sigma 4 badging. Toyota is going to charge 43L for this Legender variant . Look at the roof it’s a matt finish stuck on it and not painted, other markets get a painted black roof!

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Why is Toyota so stingy on features?

Not surprising, after they shortchanged us by not offering the rear diff lock, despite continued price hikes!

BTW, from what I have been hearing/reading, the more powerful engine (201 bhp/500 NM) would be offered only with the Legender, along with A/T (no M/T option here) whereas the regular (facelifted) Fortuner will continue to be offered with the same engine/transmission specs as the pre-facelift one. With this, Toyota will peg the Legender as a "premium" offering along with - yes, you guessed it - a hefty price increase, taking it to ~38 lac ex-showroom, which means that the on-road price (at least here in Bangalore) would be a figure just shy of half a Crore

[Slushmaster]

I am finding this legender variant ugly as compared to current gen fortuner. I am just hoping toyota bring the 500 NM engine in the regular car as the current legender version looks like an overdone aftermarket job.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Slushmaster

I am finding this legender variant ugly as compared to current gen fortuner. I am just hoping toyota bring the 500 NM engine in the regular car as the current legender version looks like an overdone aftermarket job.

While looks are subjective, I completely agree with you on this one! The facelift looks much much better but I am almost certain that Toyota will keep the higher-spec engine exclusively for the Legender, to be able to justify its "premium" positioning and of course, higher price. Makes complete business sense.

I would be more than happy if I am proven wrong, though

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

From what I have been hearing/reading, the more powerful engine (201 bhp/500 NM) would be offered only with the Legender, along with A/T (no M/T option here) whereas the regular (facelifted) Fortuner will continue to be offered with the same engine/transmission specs as the pre-facelift one. With this.

I don’t think Toyota will offer the same engine with different tunes for the regular Fortuner and another for the Legender. IMHO both will get it together. Since the uprated 2.8L has some changes compared to the older 2.8L it won’t make sense to stock different parts for the same engine especially in a company like Toyota!

[Slushmaster]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

Toyota will keep the higher-spec engine exclusively for the Legender, to be able to justify its "premium" positioning and of course, higher price.

After seeing the legender images here, what differentiator it will offer over and above the regular car to justify the premium? I don't think Toyota have enough to ask for legender in terms of money as they are just putting in a hideous bumper, different alloys and a painted roof with some interior color changes, easily achievable as a dealer fittement. The only differentiator they can create is an engine upgrade. But for a normal buyer, its the same engine with a different tune, its not a bigger engine with a different cubic capacity and with that the value proposition of legender becomes very weak. I don't think it makes sense, but Toyota India is greedy(Like all car manufacturers) and will try to twist arms of customers who want Fortuner with a difference.

As all, I wish that they offer 500NM in normal avatar with 4x4 in manual/AT. But, who knows that Toyota wants to surpise us with a 2.4L engine from innova in the upcoming fortuner and earn some more bucks

[pramodmysore]

Spied during their advertisement shoot in Bengaluru:

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by Slushmaster

After seeing the legender images here, what differentiator it will offer over and above the regular car to justify the premium?

That is exactly the point and that is why it makes sense for Toyota to keep the higher-tune engine on the Legender alone, to be able to justify the higher price.

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Since the uprated 2.8L has some changes compared to the older 2.8L it won’t make sense to stock different parts for the same engine especially in a company like Toyota!

I don't think there will be a whole world of difference between the two engines, in terms of parts. Also, they have offered different engines on the same model in the past as well - previous gen Fortuner used to come with 3.0 lit and 2.5 lit engines, so did the Innova with 2.8 lit and 2.5 lit.

Originally Posted by Slushmaster

As all, I wish that they offer 500NM in normal avatar with 4x4 in manual/AT.

It is highly unlikely that the 500 NM engine will be offered with a manual gearbox, given that the current engine was detuned to 420 NM with the manual variant (as opposed to the 450 NM tune with the A/T). 500 NM would be too much to handle for the manual gearbox.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by cool_dube

That is exactly the point and that is why it makes sense for Toyota to keep the higher-tune engine on the Legender alone, to be able to justify the higher price.

Toyota has been happily selling TRD editions with cosmetic changes for a whopping 1-2 lac premium. I would not be surprised if Legender replaces TRD Sportivo. Either both will get 200HP tune or both will sell with 178HP tune.