[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by dceite

Yes iRaghava even i dont understand all this hype.
Xeta was detuned from 1.4 to 1.2. No hype.
Zen, WagonR, Esteem etc. got new lamps. No hype.
Getz getting detuned from 1.3 to 1.1. No hype.

Palio, which sells the least of all the cars i mentioned, gets a new facelift and a detuned engine. And voila! here we are jumping all around!

Dceite we are not jumping around!! We are discussing. No one said Fiat launched a Supercar but Fiat kept us souls curious for more than a year to get this car and we are just trying to compare. Whats the harm? I am not shouting out that this car will shake up sales figures or anything for that matter in the view of Fiats future.

What about the new Baleno launch thread where Maruti changed colours of tail lamps and gave it a clear lens treatment + added a climate control to launch a new car? Were we jumping around? We have a thread running 202 posts for it. I have nothing against the car or you. I would as much love to talk as much about Maruti, Honda or any manufacturer.

No offence. If you do not like it, stay away from it.

This link makes an interesting read - Fiat

Coming back to topic:

Did the visitors to the plant spot a Grande Punto or a Linea around?? I guess they managed to hide the car away from you guys

[karlosdeville]

good show Kiran...that is pretty much what we do on the forum isnt it...discuss cars! I genuinely believe that there are so many people here (quite like myself) who are in denial about Fiats dire straits simply because the Palio is such a brillaint product...deep down we so badly want them to do well, so any happenings, however insignificant, do get me all stired up...sigh...

[DCEite]

Moral,
The whole point is that why do some people here over-rate a car that has failed to live up to the expectations of the public. The only good thing about Fiat here in India is the old 1.6 GTX engine (even that is detuned for more FE now!), and tank like build quality of their cars. Everything else about Fiat in India, well, you know as good as i do.
Frankly speaking, public opinion about this car is already not in good taste (no offence to you mate, i am talking about the larger Janta). Its still the Palio. Even the dashboard is same (atleast they could have changed that to the Brazlian Palio dash). Fiat needs to launch a new car. Even for facelifts, it must not wait for ages to do a simple tail-lamp/head-lamp change. Look at TATA, they keep changing the looks of the Indica/Indigo series so frequently, so that it keeps the interest alive of general public in these cars. And it takes more than 5 years for Fiat to do the same!

As a car, if i compare this to say U-VA, i find the latter to be better. To each its own. If you think that come rain or storm, Palio is the best small car in India, then, i should quietly leave this discussion and let you do all the talking.
Thanks!

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Which is thirsty as hell. Not the most-wanted choice of the Indian consumer. And it's only 13 bhp more than the 1.3 Swift, which I've seen giving 15 kmpl.

A car weighing 1.1 tonnes, having a DOHC 1.6 engine tuned for power and giving 10 + kmpl in the city isnt thirsty!
The difference on paper is "just" 13 BHP but in the real world the Swift's 1.3 stands no way near the 1.6. Heck it even pulls the 1250+ kg adventure easily.

[devarshi84]

the 1.1 surely seems to be the UNO engine. Coz they have termed it as the FIRE engine.

I also see that the 1.6 has also lost 20kgs from its belly.

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by dceite

Moral, The whole point is that why do some people here over-rate a car that has failed to live up to the expectations of the public. The only good thing about Fiat here in India is the old 1.6 GTX engine (even that is detuned for more FE now!), and tank like build quality of their cars. Everything else about Fiat in India, well, you know as good as i do.

I sincerely fail to understand expectations of people. What do you expect from Fiat? A new car? Did anyone ever think about the fact that their plant was in shambles post the flood and it was too hard to revive it. It would atleast take a year to build a new plant, atleast I think it does. And hence mebbe the delay in the launch of the new car.

Frankly speaking, public opinion about this car is already not in good taste (no offence to you mate, i am talking about the larger Janta). Its still the Palio. still that old dashboard (atleast they could have changed that to the Brazlian Palio dash). Fiat needs to launch a new car. Even for facelifts, it must not wait for ages to do a simple tail-lamp/head-lamp change. Look at TATA, they keep changing the looks of the Indica/Indigo series so frequently, so that it keeps the interest alive of general public in these cars. And it takes more than 5 years for Fiat to do the same!

If you talk about team-bhp public then let me present some data:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...hoose-one.html

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ack-india.html

We are comparing the Palio as the safest hatch even on date whereas this was designed way back in 2001!

Yes Tata has a policy to change headlights tail lights of their cars every two years and I believe they will educate Fiat to do the same. And have you realized that its only recently that Maruti has started new look models before they had a change headlamp / taillamp policy. Fiat doesn't have the brains to pull this off in 5 years.

Originally Posted by devarshi84

the 1.1 surely seems to be the UNO engine. Coz they have termed it as the FIRE engine.

I learnt from a post by MPower that F.I.R.E. is not an engine technology but was adopted when Fiat first started building engines using robotic technology. The Uno in India was a 1.0 with 45bhp and a 1.2 with SFI. There was a 1.1 Uno but I doubt whether it made it to Indian shores.

EDIT: Sorry I used the 1.6 as a reference point.

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Of all the ....

Dude, first of all you are comparing a 100 bhp petrol to a Multijet Diesel. And then, falling prey to general misconceptions. Did not expect this. I agree with the 'Not most-wanted choice of the Indian customer' bit, however, I cannot stomach the thirsty bit at all.

No, I was comparing the 1.3 G13 series petrol to the DOHC Torque engine.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

A car weighing 1.1 tonnes, having a DOHC 1.6 engine tuned for power and giving 10 + kmpl in the city isnt thirsty!
The difference on paper is "just" 13 BHP but in the real world the Swift's 1.3 stands no way near the 1.6. Heck it even pulls the 1250+ kg adventure easily.

Well, it may pull a truck easily, but the customers aren't going to be very impressed. The Swift weighs close to 1.1 tonnes too, mind you. And how come it gives 13 kmpl? Also, a Swift is more driveable in the 1750-2000 rpm range than a Palio 1.6, IMHO. DOHC or even quad cams, the customer wants efficiency. And the 1.6 can't give that.

[amtak]

Originally Posted by roms

The first test drive reports suggest that the 1.1 engine is much better in terms of driveability and response. And the best bit - the overall mileage in real world conditions is supposedly 15.4 kmpl !! We have a winner!

Guys guys, take a break from the arguments and take a look at the links provided.Save some energy

Yes, I agree with you on this. I was talking about the performance. One thing that i noticed is that even at speeds of 20-30 in 3rd gear the car did not make any knocking sounds.

[finneyp]

Originally Posted by amtak

Dear All,

Had been to the Wasan TATA today for the test drive of the Palio Stile. Here are a few impressions:

Looks and Build: Tough and Long lasting.
Braking: Decent enough though the brakes need to be pushed a bit hard .but the car didn't skid. (80-0)
Front: Ventilated Discs
Rear: Drums
Interiors: OK Types
SLE has power windows only on the front.

Someone asked about the suspension, its still the same.
Front: Mcpherson
Rear: Torsion Axle, Coil Springs
Rock Solid. Somehow I didn't like the Grey part of the grill, Also, I was expecting a Red Logo of Fiat.
Weight:990 (1.1) 1060 (1.6)
Warranty: 18 months unlimited kms and 18 months extended warranty.

Pickup - Good for a 57 BHP car. It took the weight of her's with ease.
A/C: Chilling. The AC is simply superb.

Colors: only 6: Mint White, Ozone Blue, Alpine Green, Magnesium Grey, Furnace Red and Carbon Black (Maruti!!!). Sadly even the 1.6 doesn't come with Canary Yellow.

Pictures: would be posted by EOD today.

PS: I checked with the sales exec and he said it should be priced competively and it should be out by 5th April, 2007. Also, they expect it to sell more in numbers now.

Further, the DIESEL engine would come only with the Grande Punto in 2008 (The sales executive knew about it.)

I guess that was the first Test drive of Palio Stile by BHPian!
Thanks Amtak for the review!

Good to know that 1.1 engine drives the 1 ton Car with ease!

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Well, it may pull a truck easily, but the customers aren't going to be very impressed. The Swift weighs close to 1.1 tonnes too, mind you. And how come it gives 13 kmpl? Also, a Swift is more driveable in the 1750-2000 rpm range than a Palio 1.6, IMHO. DOHC or even quad cams, the customer wants efficiency. And the 1.6 can't give that.

The 1.6 Palio isnt supposed to be the bread and butter model.... its the 1.1 version which the people will buy and will give all the efficiency the customer wants.
I said it and I say it again, 1.3 doesnt stands a chance aganist the 1.6... whatever rpm.

[roms]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

I learnt from a post by MPower that F.I.R.E. is not an engine technology but was adopted when Fiat first started building engines using robotic technology. The Uno in India was a 1.0 with 45bhp and a 1.2 with SFI. There was a 1.1 Uno but I doubt whether it made it to Indian shores.

EDIT: Sorry I used the 1.6 as a reference point.

You are right buddy.F.I.R.E, the full form of which is " Fully Integrated Robotised Engine " is an acronym used for the family of engines made by Fiat. The engine built on the F.I.R.E platform range from 1.0 L to 1.4 L. So, the 1.0 L engines in Uno and 1.2 L engines used both in the Uno as well as the Palio belong to the F.I.R.E family. Earlier, there were talks about the 1.4 FIRE engines being plonked in the new Palios.

The 1.6 and 1.8(not sold in India) engines however, belong to the " Torque" family of engines and not "FIRE".

[v1p3r]

Have they changed the ratios on the 1.6 or is it still like the 1.2?

[amtak]

Originally Posted by finneyp

I guess that was the first Test drive of Palio Stile by BHPian!
Thanks Amtak for the review!

Good to know that 1.1 engine drives the 1 ton Car with ease!

Thanks Finneyp. This time I had the me first me first thing in me

[sids911]

Originally Posted by dceite

Moral,
The only good thing about Fiat here in India is the old 1.6 GTX engine (even that is detuned for more FE now!)

How do you know that?

[typeOnegative]

Saw th new Palio on the road in the Fort area today. Color was that metallic blue shade as shown in this set of pix - Shaikh Umar's gallery

Looked really nice. Did not have a peek into the interiors, but the car looked damn neat from the outside.

@vip3r, as I said earlier, I stand corrected. Pardon me about that. But I still beg to differ on your characterizing the 1.6 as thirsty.
@moral, there are some who will not say a word when people 'jump around' about Maruti's cosmetic changes but will grab you by the neck if you even whisper 'Fiat'. Just let 'em be.